Hints for cornering?

I love Sean nos

I realise that this is a really open question, but I got a problem with cornering. I have not yet got the confidence in the bike/tyres and seem to slow down way too much and then struggle to drive into the corner. There is no reason for this, I mean the bike hasn't done anything to make me doubt, it's all me.

Is this something that will come to me over time and I have to practice, practice, practice, or are they any hints that I could use?

GBX

Yes it is something that will come with time. Are the tyres new?
Is there somewhere you can practice like a large shopping centre car park near you?

Paulw

I love Sean nos wrote: »

I realise that this is a really open question, but I got a problem with cornering. I have not yet got the confidence in the bike/tyres and seem to slow down way too much and then struggle to drive into the corner. There is no reason for this, I mean the bike hasn't done anything to make me doubt, it's all me.

Is this something that will come to me over time and I have to practice, practice, practice, or are they any hints that I could use?

Sounds totally familiar. It's a confidence thing. I am the very same. Some days, I have a good day and feel comfortable, and take corners with ease. Other days I just don't feel it, and slow down for the exact same corners.

Nothing at all that the bike can't handle, so I know it's all in my head.

It's fine to slow down, so that you are comfortable. Nothing worse than going in faster than you are comfortable and then end up not making it and going over on the wrong side of the road, or worse yet, hitting something or going off the road. :eek:

Just take your time and build your comfort level.

Wonda-Boy

Fair play for posting up the question in the 1st place, alot of people on motorbikes think they know it all and that they are the best rider since slice bread. You never stop learning on a bike I tell you that.

Cornering is all about confidence BUT there is an awful lot of things you can do before the corner to make life easier for yourself, I can only offer advice for what I do personally and it will differ from everyone else that posts up.

Basic rules I follow are make sure you are in the correct gear BEFORE the corner, you dont want to be upsetting the bike just before you turn in. You should have done the work before entry like reading the aspect of the corner (is it falling away from you, gentle bend or getting tighter a sharp bend) have the bike in the correct position for the left or right turn. When in the correct gear tip the bike in with a slight positive throttle so that the grip is on the rear tyre. Always look where you want to go, never look down before the front wheel (alot of new guys to bikes do this, they never look at the exit of the corner)

If in the correct gear for the corner and you release the throttle (for whatever reason) the bike should slow instantly as the revs are high and the bike is responsive. If in the wrong gear the bike will be limp and unresponsive and hard to control and make you run wide.

Continue to look through the corner and gradually accelerate as the bike stands up, if you do come into the corner a bit fast use the back brake to scrub off the excess speed and dont panic (I know its easier said then done)

I am sure people on here will pick the bones out of this and disagree with it or word it better but that is the basis of good cornering.....

We also have a few IBT instructors on here that will no doubt post up the way to corner word for word RSA textbook jobbie in due course!

Lyle Lanley

Position yourself so you can see as far as possible, fully left for right handers, fully right for left handers.

Trust the bike, if you take it too fast countersteering will drop you down further and take you around.

I love Sean nos

Thanks everyone for the responses.

GBX wrote: »

Are the tyres new?

They're quite new. Bridgestone Battlax with plenty of thread. I don't think I'm challenging them at all.

GBX wrote: »

Is there somewhere you can practice like a large shopping centre car park near you?

There are the carparks at work that I could practice in evenings and weekends. I already do that for slow work, slaloming, figures 8s, u-turns, etc.

Paulw wrote: »

Some days, I have a good day and feel comfortable, and take corners with ease. Other days I just don't feel it, and slow down for the exact same corners.

That's it exactly. Some days are better than others, but the consistency isn't there yet.

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Basic rules I follow are make sure you are in the correct gear BEFORE the corner, you dont want to be upsetting the bike just before you turn in. You should have done the work before entry like reading the aspect of the corner

I think this has gotten better for me. I used to enter slower corners in 3rd on the Fz6, but that was because I'd probably take the same corner in 3rd in the car and nothing else. I've started taking them in 4th and I think it's better overall, less snappy on the throttle.

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Always look where you want to go, never look down before the front wheel (alot of new guys to bikes do this, they never look at the exit of the corner)

I haven't quite mastered this yet, it's still a bit hit and miss, depending on how well I feel the corner is going.

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

Position yourself so you can see as far as possible, fully left for right handers, fully right for left handers.

I have this bit for the most part. The exceptions are the council, when they dump a load of manholes in the middle of a corner or if there are ripples or other defects in the line through the corner. Stuff that I wouldn't care about in the car.

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

Trust the bike, if you take it too fast countersteering will drop you down further and take you around.

I haven't figured out countersteering yet. I know that it exists, but I don't know how to do it yet. I'm wary of jerking the bars too quickly.

frozenfrozen

you definitely have countersteering figured out if you have gone around a bend faster than 10 miles an hour.. it's how you steer a bike, push left bar to go left push right to go right

it'll all come in time, I'm only on the bike a year and it never just clicks you just keep getting better and better so pay heed to the few tips on here but just keep practising

most important part is slow in fast out and always be going at a speed you're comfortable with stopping from within the distance you see to be clear. Always....

take all your weight off the bars, you'll find the bike feels 10 times happier when all you're doing is working the controls with the bars and steering rather than holding on. squeeze with your legs to do this but you get to a stage where you don't have to squeeze you just get comfortable with how the bike feels

start turning later into the corner. approach in a straight line and slow down to whatever speed you're comfortable with on approach, be in the right gear, see through the bend and then tip the bike in all the way and do a tight turn. if that doesn't make sense don't worry about it that will click with you when you are 100% confident on the controls etc and you just get that you have way more view when you turn a bend into a corner if you know what I mean.

in your comment above saying you're going around slow bends in 4th gear, maybe we have different ideas of slow bends but for me a slow bend is first/ second gear, make sure you have the revs high enough that the engine has loads of power and won't bog down it's important to keep accelerating just a tiny bit while going around a corner to keep the weight on the rear tyre

also if gravel / big pot holes or man holes are in your way now and upsetting the bike mid corner the answer is simple, go find better roads to practise on. It's no big deal coming up on something like that when you are comfortable but no point worrying about that type of stuff when you are just getting comfortable.. find a nice loop of a couple of hours of nice roads and do it a good few times

Paulw

I love Sean nos wrote: »

I think this has gotten better for me. I used to enter slower corners in 3rd on the Fz6, but that was because I'd probably take the same corner in 3rd in the car and nothing else. I've started taking them in 4th and I think it's better overall, less snappy on the throttle.

I haven't figured out countersteering yet. I know that it exists, but I don't know how to do it yet. I'm wary of jerking the bars too quickly.

With the gears, if anything, you should be in a lower gear than you think, so that you have more engine breaking. So, if you normally take it in 3rd gear, then consider trying it in 2nd gear. It is always better to be able to use engine breaking to slow down, than to have too much gear. Also, with that bike, you should still have plenty of power to accelerate out of the corner and then up shift.

You have used countersteering, but you aren't always conscious of it. You are not thinking hard about it, but you ARE doing it. Next time, just look at what you are doing, without thinking about it. You will find that you are countersteering just fine. Plenty of decent Youtube clips about countersteering.

Pugzilla

rustynutz

Pick up a copy of 'twist of the wrist 2" has all the information you need to start gaining more confidence in the corners

hairyslug

I have a strange one, going into left hand bends/corners, not a bother, will tip it right down, just can't do it to right hand bends, I have no confidence at all, it's not a bike or tyre thing, I've felt this way since as far as I can remember, when I do do it, I really need to force myself and it feels like it's using a lot more concentration that going to the other side.

Max Headroom

Pugzilla wrote: »

PMSL......now THATS good comedy....:D:D:D:D:D

Max Headroom

hairyslug wrote: »

I have a strange one, going into left hand bends/corners, not a bother, will tip it right down, just can't do it to right hand bends, I have no confidence at all, it's not a bike or tyre thing, I've felt this way since as far as I can remember, when I do do it, I really need to force myself and it feels like it's using a lot more concentration that going to the other side.

Are you right-handed...??

hairyslug

Max Headroom wrote: »

Are you right-handed...??

Yeah, I'm the same in a car aswell if I'm messing about, can take a left much more comfortably and know exactly where it is

frozenfrozen

that's a strange one if you find right bends slower in a car too... could it be that you don't feel like you have the extra 'run off' room of the other lane?

ratracer

hairyslug wrote: »

I have a strange one, going into left hand bends/corners, not a bother, will tip it right down, just can't do it to right hand bends, I have no confidence at all, it's not a bike or tyre thing, I've felt this way since as far as I can remember, when I do do it, I really need to force myself and it feels like it's using a lot more concentration that going to the other side.

To practice leaning to the right, find a nice big roundabout that you can see all round. Pick a quiet time for traffic ( early Sunday morning) and just tip round and round it until you're confident with it!!

Max Headroom

It's a self preservation thing in year head....tbh i was the same till I did some track days..took me ages to get me right knee down..left slider was worn raw...

cantdecide

frozenfrozen wrote: »

you definitely have countersteering figured out if you have gone around a bend faster than 10 miles an hour.. it's how you steer a bike, push left bar to go left push right to go right

I know at least one rider that doesn't counter steer and favours basically leaning/ falling into the corners. The effect is that it makes them slow and rigid. He was telling me last year that they were "experimenting" with countersteering on a long ride. He has a full licence and has been riding for years.

When I started riding, it was pre IBT but I got the ROSPA Silver training in order get an insurance discount. They didn't mention countersteering even once. I remember whinging on Bicker.ie about struggling with cornering for the first week or two and being shown it by way of Youtube instructional video. I then rode out of my house and when I got to the very first bend and realising I'd been trying the steer wrong all along.

frozenfrozen

can't imagine trying to exit a roundabout without steering with my hands, what does he do if he needs to swerve quickly

scarebus03

There is too much emphasis on counter steering and it seems to confuse people. If the bike is going around a corner leaned at over 10mph then naturally the rider is counter steering. It's when riders start thinking about it that it all goes wrong.
One of the issues I found when starting out was the that the riding portion of the IBT was fantastic as it covered proper road riding but afterwards you spent 6 months practicing for a test based solely on slow urban riding. You do not get much variation in cornering around the Finglas area! So you pass your test accustomed to 2nd and 3rd gear slow riding then start with the real deal. Head out around the Naul and realise those corners need real planning and you must process what you're coming into much quicker to set up the bike prior to entry. For most of them 2nd and 3rd gear leave the back wheel way too responsive for both rolling on and if overcooked rolling off. But after giving yourself the time, learning your bike and putting up a few 1000kms it all comes together. A light tip of the back brake was sometimes necessary to tidy it up on a corner that caught me out due to inexperience (still happens but as an exception these days). Ride to your limits and they will change over time. Now I smile after a good blast on those roads that terrified me in the beginning when I think back. Stay safe

cantdecide

frozenfrozen wrote: »

can't imagine trying to exit a roundabout without steering with my hands, what does he do if he needs to swerve quickly

He's usually riding too slow to get into situations where cornering quickly comes up. He's the slowest thing on the road and often holds up other traffic...

Zipppy

Paulw wrote:

With the gears, if anything, you should be in a lower gear than you think, so that you have more engine breaking. So, if you normally take it in 3rd gear, then consider trying it in 2nd gear. It is always better to be able to use engine breaking to slow down, than to have too much gear. Also, with that bike, you should still have plenty of power to accelerate out of the corner and then up shift.

Great advice....experienced riders hardly used their brakes at all...engine braking does most of the stopping / slowing...

I love Sean nos

Zipppy wrote: »

Great advice....experienced riders hardly used their brakes at all...engine braking does most of the stopping / slowing...

I'm finding that already. Generally though I do give the brake pedal a nudge, just to light up for whomever is behind me.

Wonda-Boy

hairyslug wrote: »

I have a strange one, going into left hand bends/corners, not a bother, will tip it right down, just can't do it to right hand bends, I have no confidence at all, it's not a bike or tyre thing, I've felt this way since as far as I can remember, when I do do it, I really need to force myself and it feels like it's using a lot more concentration that going to the other side.

Id say its because the camber of the road is different when going right then left, when going left you are with the camber when going right you are against it and make the bike feel and react differently.

HOWEVER, dont know why to feel it in a car TBH.

Lumen

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Id say its because the camber of the road is different when going right then left, when going left you are with the camber when going right you are against it and make the bike feel and react differently.

Yes, this also means that (assuming sufficient visibility and all else is equal) you can go faster round left hand bends than right hand ones. As long as you're staying on the LHS of the road.

If you have a broken line and sufficient visibility (unusual on country roads) you can cross the centre to smooth the line, and you also get extra grip if you're going right.

But (importantly) if you're going round a well-sighted left hand bend and cross the centre line, your grip will drop off and you may embrace the ditch. :pac:

Reverse all advice for riding on the continent.

zubair

I love Sean nos wrote: »

I'm finding that already. Generally though I do give the brake pedal a nudge, just to light up for whomever is behind me.

Look where you want to go and get out on a spin with the lads, you'll learn loads.

Also it is fairly normal to analyse your corners and riding.

Cian_ok

hairyslug wrote: »

I have a strange one, going into left hand bends/corners, not a bother, will tip it right down, just can't do it to right hand bends, I have no confidence at all, it's not a bike or tyre thing, I've felt this way since as far as I can remember, when I do do it, I really need to force myself and it feels like it's using a lot more concentration that going to the other side.

I do this too on the bike. I think it's something to do with holding the throttle with my right hand.
I've never noticed any difference in the car

thos

zubair wrote: »

Look where you want to go

That's was a big one for me in the beginning, and took a bit of getting used to, but is a very important aspect.

The_Chap

I find backing it in and lifting the front on the way out the most effective


Seriously though not much to add here, all good advice about getting your corner entry speed right, you can always wind it on when you see the corner exit. I very rarely brake for corners, I like to use the gears to control the speed - obviously when you are having a more spirited ride you have to use the brakes more

Paulw

Here's how NOT to take a corner - too fast, too high a gear, and just not concentrating properly.

Yep, it was ME. :rolleyes:

The_Chap

Paulw wrote: »

Here's how NOT to take a corner - too fast, too high a gear, and just not concentrating properly.

Yep, it was ME. :rolleyes:

haha that was me going past you thinking "where the f**k are you going" haha