Break it, buy it?

Lackey

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have worked in retail for over 30 years with various large retailers.

Trust me, all POS systems work generally the same.

No large retailer gives access to stock control to shop assistants.

No shop assistant can discount products.

And ......Trust me when I tell you that's not true at all

It is possible for shop assistants to reduce items of stock on the tills in a large retailer where I have experience for damages caused in store....it is done to reduce the amount of items being thrown out rather when they can be sold at a discounted price.

And there are options available on the till screen ie different types of damage for sales assistant to chose from as to why the item is being reduced in price

Sadb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Self service scan operators are not sales assistants. They have a higher pay grade for starters.

They didnt discount, they amended the price to conform to the law. This will be recorded and amended. It could either be an incorrect promotion or the systems are incorrect.

As for making customers pay for breakages in your store, its ok to ask but you break the law by forcing them to pay if that is what you do.

When they pay are you charging them full retail and still making a profit or are you selling at cost?

As for driving, you have insurance.

The difference between small and large retailers is that large retailers can afford to write breakages off.

Does your company simply bin the breakage or do you give it to the customer who pays?

If they pay and dont want the breakage do you still claim the breakage as a write off against profits at the end of the trading year?

She pressed discount on the till, scanned item again and entered the price as advertised. Which is what we do on our till, how is that not being able to discount an item?

How are we breaking the law by forcing the customer to pay? They broke an item that does not belong to them, it belongs to the store owner. they take the broken item home. We don't get credit from suppliers for damaged items, we don't get credit from suppliers for most stock.

CeilingFly

laotg wrote: »

Why shouldn't you pay? You are responsible for your son. If I was the shop owner I'd be demanding you pay the whole lot. Why should a shop lose money because someone broke an item of stock that they now can't sell.

I'll have a wild guess that you don't own a shop?

Firstly a shop adds a profit, so at €5 on a €10 "fancy goods" item theer was no loss to the store except the bad taste of a customer who will not return.

In order to display product, a retailer will accept a small level of breakages and once its accidental an apology would suffice.

It would be different if a child was unruly and uncontrolled by the oarent - but that's not the case here and its quite shameful that the store asked for the item to be paid for especially as the person was purchasing other items.

CeilingFly

Deleted User wrote: »

Consumer protection act.

Most large retailers just honour the price advertised in store as part of good customer service.

No law whatsoever saying that a price on a product must be honoured - similary there is no law to say that change must be given by a retailer to a customer who hands over more than the exact total required and also a retail is not under any obligation to accept any form of payment e.g. those who state a retailer must accept 20 x €1 coins becasue its "legal tender"

Its all down to what is reasonable and accepted practice

If a retailer did not honour prices marked or did not offer chnage or did not accept 20 x €1 coins, that retailer would be out of business - but would not have broken any law.

And similarly a retailer with a break it and pay for it policy will see less customers come through their doors.

shopper2011

Deleted User wrote:

I would have security watching her like a hawk and preparing a disiplinary against her for gross misconduct with full suspension once i had gathered enough evidence.

Jeepers I'm so glad I don't work for you or in the same building as you. Most likely it was probably an insecure teenager on a summer job. The adult in the sutuation should know what to do and not be taking advantage of the situation.

lawred2

Panjandrums wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

why would toilet paper be put out in place of perishable stock?

why would toilet paper be anywhere near perishable stock on the shop floor?

randomstuff

How about partial damage on an expensive item.

Say, in a bike shop a kid bumps into a 2000€ bike, it falls over onto another 2000€ bike.

What should happen if the bikes are just scratched, but retailer can't sell them as new anymore?

And what about if the frames dent?

What % should the guardian of the kid pay?

CruelCoin

CeilingFly wrote: »

No law whatsoever saying that a price on a product must be honoured

Aye,

Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act (1981??)

Anyone has the right to "treat" as in to offer a sum for goods and services. The vendor can decide whether to accept or reject the offer.
There is nothing in law that says advertised price is binding.

Morally dubious it may be, but the OP has the right to offer 50%, and the shop has the right to reject it.

Jeniflan

CruelCoin wrote: »

Morally dubious it may be, but the OP has the right to offer 50%, and the shop has the right to reject it.

I appreciate all your concerns for my morals and my parenting skills.

Just to be clear- I was asked to pay 50%, she said that was their policy, not full amount. When asked, or told 'it was up to me', I immediately followed her to the till and gave her money. She literally had it in her hand. When I questioned it as she told me she would send it back to the the supplier as faulty, she handed it back.

Sadb

Jeniflan wrote: »

I appreciate all your concerns for my morals and my parenting skills.

Just to be clear- I was asked to pay 50%, she said that was their policy, not full amount. When asked, or told 'it was up to me', I immediately followed her to the till and gave her money. She literally had it in her hand. When I questioned it as she told me she would send it back to the the supplier as faulty, she handed it back.

It was probably because you argued about the quality of the item, she perhaps meant that she will bring that up with the supplier.

my3cents

The shop has the choice of putting everything behind counters so there is no chance of a customer or their kids damaging it. However they know they can sell more by putting items on display and damage to "display" items is part of the cost of doing business.

Jeniflan

Sadb wrote: »

It was probably because you argued about the quality of the item, she perhaps meant that she will bring that up with the supplier.

Perhaps that is what she meant, but it's certainly not what she said

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

Friend comes into store, picks up jacket goes to till. Button claimed as missing. 10 euro discount.

Customer goes into store, rips off button goes to till, 10 euro discount.

Sales assistant gives 5 euro discount per week for faulty items. That works out as 260 euro per year of discounts unchecked. X by 10 workers =2,600 euro loss unchecked.

This is why sales assistants dont have authority to discount.

But it is very easy to analyze and monitor.
If anyone has a significantly different stats of discounts then she/he gets flagged.

AlanG

Legally parents are not responsible for the damage caused by minors under their care. I would say a lot would come down to what could be deemed reasonable. If the shop allows children in they have an obligation to set up the shop in such a way as to minimise the chance of breakage. They cant just leave stuff lying around on low shelves and expect parents to pay for breakages.
Equally a parent has an obligation to have a reasonable level of supervision of their child but I don't think many judges would deem it reasonable to stop children from touching all items placed on low shelves.

PraxisPete

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can promise you no large retailer allows sales assistants to discount.

Of course when i say large retailer i mean those with over 100 stores nationwide turning over millions each year.

You're talking ****e. Obviously the check out workers in Dunnes aren't going to have the authority to discount a packet of Meanies. There is a very good chance the person in the op could discount whatever they want. You worked for massive grocery chains. Not all retail is the same.

PraxisPete

PraxisPete wrote: »

You're talking ****e. Obviously the check out workers in Dunnes aren't going to have the authority to discount a packet of Meanies. There is a very good chance the person in the op could discount whatever they want. You worked for massive grocery chains. Not all retail is the same.

Ive worked in Grocery and Textiles.

If you want to beleive that sales assistants can go around discounting products without authorisation and putting it through the till then all I can say is I have a bridge for sale.

CeilingFly

CeilingFly wrote: »

No law whatsoever saying that a price on a product must be honoured - similary there is no law to say that change must be given by a retailer to a customer who hands over more than the exact total required and also a retail is not under any obligation to accept any form of payment e.g. those who state a retailer must accept 20 x €1 coins becasue its "legal tender"

Its all down to what is reasonable and accepted practice

If a retailer did not honour prices marked or did not offer chnage or did not accept 20 x €1 coins, that retailer would be out of business - but would not have broken any law.

And similarly a retailer with a break it and pay for it policy will see less customers come through their doors.

Yes there is no law forcing a shop to honour a price, however retailers are governed by law (Consumer Protection Act) to ensure that prices displayed are accurate and not misleading. Put simply, the price displayed must be the same as the price charged at the till. This also applies to special offers. https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/pricing/rules-on-pricing/

This is why large retailers generally honour the price displayed. This is not discounting as I have previously said, this is honoring a price advertised.

shopper2011

shopper2011 wrote: »

Jeepers I'm so glad I don't work for you or in the same building as you. Most likely it was probably an insecure teenager on a summer job. The adult in the sutuation should know what to do and not be taking advantage of the situation.

Or equally she could be on the take.

All the signs are there.

Naturally I dont just go in shouting thief, I have security watch her and see what she is doing. All standard practice in a large retailer when there is suspicion fraud/theft.

Even if she was caught red handed there is a whole raft of rules a employer must go through before they can even get rid of her including paid suspension.

Sadb

Sadb wrote: »

She pressed discount on the till, scanned item again and entered the price as advertised. Which is what we do on our till, how is that not being able to discount an item?

How are we breaking the law by forcing the customer to pay? They broke an item that does not belong to them, it belongs to the store owner. they take the broken item home. We don't get credit from suppliers for damaged items, we don't get credit from suppliers for most stock.

Because there is no law that states a customer has to pay for a broken item.

You have no right to detain a customer if they just walk out unless you have caught them stealing and even then its a very grey area.

The only recourse you have is to call the Gardai and claim criminal damage and even then you wont get far with a claim of criminal damage if a child has broken something.

Jesus Im generally shocked you haven't been sued yet if you are forcing people to pay for good before leaving.

PraxisPete

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ive worked in Grocery and Textiles.

If you want to beleive that sales assistants can go around discounting products without authorisation and putting it through the till then all I can say is I have a bridge for sale.

I'd well believe it. I worked in retail for the guts of 20 years and almost all full time permanent staff had the ability to discount across 5 different companies.

Lackey

Lackey wrote: »

And ......Trust me when I tell you that's not true at all

It is possible for shop assistants to reduce items of stock on the tills in a large retailer where I have experience for damages caused in store....it is done to reduce the amount of items being thrown out rather when they can be sold at a discounted price.

And there are options available on the till screen ie different types of damage for sales assistant to chose from as to why the item is being reduced in price

Like I said, No large retailer I have ever come across allows sales assistants to reduce products because this is wide open to fraud and abuse.

Yes it can be monitored, but what are you monitoring? How much discount is ok?

If you have seen a large retailer with such poor security then fair enough, its something I have never come across and its something I would expect is costing that retailer thousands if not millions in stock loss each and every year.

I cant even think of 1 main high street retailer or grocery store that is so flippant with security.

Id generally be interested to know who they are.

Cienciano

Strangely enough, I'd be happy to pay if I wasn't asked and it was me that offered. Once they demanded payment I'd refuse. Weird and makes no sense, I know.

But I don't think you should pay, people are saying the child is your responsibility to pay, but it's also the shops want to display breakable stock in easy reach of children, they have to factor in breakages.

PraxisPete

PraxisPete wrote: »

I'd well believe it. I worked in retail for the guts of 20 years and almost all full time permanent staff had the ability to discount across 5 different companies.

Could you PM me the companies, generally interested to know.

grogi

grogi wrote: »

But it is very easy to analyze and monitor.
If anyone has a significantly different stats of discounts then she/he gets flagged.

"Hi Gill you have had 300 euro of discounted products this week, compared to Bill you are 100 euro discounting more than him. Can you explain?"

"Sure boss, the products were damaged when they came to the till and I decided to discount."

"Ok, thanks Gill."

Just what do you expect them to do when its flagged? The only recourse is to speak to the sales assistant and monitor them if they suspect them. Now imagine the situation where in a large store you have 20 till operators all working different shifts. Some work 30 hours, some work 10. If they are all discounting how do you know what is a genuine discount or what is a fraudulent discount?

Maybe 1 of them is just discounting each week for a friend or family member, something that will never get flagged but shows up as a normal discount along with other genuine discounts. The fraud could go into thousands over the life time of the sales assistant without ever being flagged.

Do you honestly think retailer would be so flippant to allow this just so sales assistants can discount?


Why would they be discounting anyway? As stated previously, a large retailer will simply reclaim the damaged stock back in there overall stock loss against profits at the end of the financial year.

CeilingFly

Deleted User wrote: »

Could you PM me the companies, generally interested to know.

I'm in retail - have worked for a large UK footwear chain and staff were allowed to discount within set parameters and had to justify the discount.

Within supermarkets, due to volume oif transactions there has to be a different method, but on comparable goods shopping many staff would have the ability to do a discount subject to specific policies.

CeilingFly

CeilingFly wrote: »

I'm in retail - have worked for a large UK footwear chain and staff were allowed to discount within set parameters and had to justify the discount.

Within supermarkets, due to volume oif transactions there has to be a different method, but on comparable goods shopping many staff would have the ability to do a discount subject to specific policies.

Thanks, never worked in footwear so I have to accept your word on this.

I have worked for stores that sell footwear such as the Arcadia group and they have never allowed sales assistants to discount for all the reasons I mentioned.

xlogo

I've not read all of the thread but I don't think a shop should be allowed to profit from any breakage and the fiver paid would be reasonable to cover their costs.

Sofiztikated

So basically:

Child broke something.
Someone saw, and asked me to pay for it.
At the till, they didn't press the matter, but appealed to your morals.
Scene caused.
Staff let you go, because hassle.

Oh, and irishfreeview, you don't know the staff member. Maybe the till monkey WAS the manager. To straight away jump to "Theft, 100%, hang the ****er!" is a much.

Sadb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because there is no law that states a customer has to pay for a broken item.

You have no right to detain a customer if they just walk out unless you have caught them stealing and even then its a very grey area.

The only recourse you have is to call the Gardai and claim criminal damage and even then you wont get far with a claim of criminal damage if a child has broken something.

Jesus Im generally shocked you haven't been sued yet if you are forcing people to pay for good before leaving.

Nope haven't been sued yet in the 20 odd years I've been running this shop.
Do you honestly believe that breaking/damaging someone else's property is not protected by the law. Maybe you need to go and sit in a court house for a day.

Sadb

Sadb wrote: »

Nope haven't been sued yet in the 20 odd years I've been running this shop.
Do you honestly believe that breaking/damaging someone else's property is not protected by the law. Maybe you need to go and sit in a court house for a day.

What law do you think protects you from accidental damage in your shop?