Heavyweight Boxing

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The big thing for me is how does Fury feel about this Wilder fight ?

He has to be 100% motivated like last time, he has to be ready to get hit & be completely on point with everything he does , he has to be on it from round 1 ,


The big problem fighting Wilder is if he catches you slipping for one second he can end it ,


AJ can preform poorly against Usyk & still win , Fury doesn't have that comfort against Wilder ,

Yep

Spot on......

Wilder-Fury could be on a knife-edge for however long it lasts due to the one shot power of Wilder.

AJ-Usyk I think is similar to Teo-Loma, in the sense that Usyk will feel the power and end up spending far too much time trying to avoid it as opposed to beating it.....

Problem for Usyk is that he does not have Lomachenko's overall defensive skills.....AJ should hit him solid and clean

Interesting to read Whyte's take on AJ-Usyk. Same as me, he says it is the least risky fight. Of course, he would say that, but he has been very unimpressed by Usyk's HW showings and potential.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Yep

Spot on......

Wilder-Fury could be on a knife-edge for however long it lasts due to the one shot power of Wilder.

AJ-Usyk I think is similar to Teo-Loma, in the sense that Usyk will feel the power and end up spending far too much time trying to avoid it as opposed to beating it.....

Problem for Usyk is that he does not have Lomachenko's overall defensive skills.....AJ should hit him solid and clean

Interesting to read Whyte's take on AJ-Usyk. Same as me, he says it is the least risky fight. Of course, he would say that, but he has been very unimpressed by Usyk's HW showings and potential.

I agree


Honestly Usyk has show me absolutely nothing AT THE WEIGHT to show he will be a contender ,

Morrison J

I just don't get why Whyte can go through hell and back twice to beat Chisora and be rated as a contender yet Usyk makes easier work of Chisora and is seen as simple cannon fodder. Makes zero sense to me.

Usyk definitely hurt and backed Chisora up to take over after the first 3/4 rounds. Arguably might've stepped on the gas more down the stretch and forced a stoppage if he hadn't broken his hand too.

I know it's sparring but he also wobbled Dave Allen badly and essentially put him in retirement. That's with big gloves and head guards against a heavyweight in Allen that's known for his chin and has been in with the likes of Ortiz and Price and never been properly wobbled.

The signs are there that Usyk has the power. I can't believe the fact that he didn't put a tough fighter like Chisora into a body bag that people are just writing off his power. If he lands a solid shot on Joshua he's going to hurt him.

I 100% understand favouring Joshua but some of the Usyk slander on here is mental. Top 5 P4P fighter on the planet. Best fighter Joshua has faced to date if it happens. I'll be very pleasantly surprised if Joshua's team makes the fight but if it happens it's going to be brilliant.

walshb

Hardly slander

I think Usyk can beat every HW not named AJ and Fury....

I think he could beat Wilder....

a few years ago I would have favored Wilder clearly....

Not now.....

yourdeadwright

Morrison J wrote: »

I just don't get why Whyte can go through hell and back twice to beat Chisora and be rated as a contender yet Usyk makes easier work of Chisora and is seen as simple cannon fodder. Makes zero sense to me.

Usyk definitely hurt and backed Chisora up to take over after the first 3/4 rounds. Arguably might've stepped on the gas more down the stretch and forced a stoppage if he hadn't broken his hand too.

I know it's sparring but he also wobbled Dave Allen badly and essentially put him in retirement. That's with big gloves and head guards against a heavyweight in Allen that's known for his chin and has been in with the likes of Ortiz and Price and never been properly wobbled.

The signs are there that Usyk has the power. I can't believe the fact that he didn't put a tough fighter like Chisora into a body bag that people are just writing off his power. If he lands a solid shot on Joshua he's going to hurt him.

I 100% understand favouring Joshua but some of the Usyk slander on here is mental. Top 5 P4P fighter on the planet. Best fighter Joshua has faced to date if it happens. I'll be very pleasantly surprised if Joshua's team makes the fight but if it happens it's going to be brilliant.

Usyk was amazing and a world beater at 200lbs
He now has to fight men who are a quater (250) of that weight heavier ,Thats one hell of a difference and they have been doing it there whole adult live

Fury been 275 before that 1 3rd of the weight heavier of the crusier weight limit, Over 5 stone

These lads are monsters

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

Hardly slander

I think Usyk can beat every HW not named AJ and Fury....

I think he could beat Wilder....

a few years ago I would have favored Wilder clearly....

Not now.....

Yes, i believe Usyk would be good enough to avoid a big shot from Wilder. I think he loses early against the likes of Joshua. I don't see this great power he has that others mention. He is also fairly hittable, at least early on, as we saw against Bellew. I think if Joshua tags him clean he is going to hurt him badly.
I will be surprised if Joshua avoids fighting him.

OmegaGene

Aj won’t swerve Usyk because he’s aiming for the undisputed, Eddie only mentioned it to get a better deal from the Usyk camp
It’s all about the coin for Eddie Hearn

Morrison J

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Usyk was amazing and a world beater at 200lbs
He now has to fight men who are a quater (250) of that weight heavier ,Thats one hell of a difference and they have been doing it there whole adult live

Fury been 275 before that 1 3rd of the weight heavier of the crusier weight limit, Over 5 stone

These lads are monsters

The difference between Usyk and Joshua will be about 20lbs I'd suspect. Same difference in weight that will be there between Fury and Joshua. Now I know obviously the bigger you get the less that difference in weight matters but I think the difference in skill is so clear between Joshua and Usyk that it helps negate the weight difference that bit more too.

There are bigger red flags with Usyk that come to mind to me before the weight to be honest.

- How inactive he's been,
- Been very injury prone in the last few years
- Is actually 34 now

The fact he relies heavily on his speed, reflexes and stamina means he'll possibly fall off a cliff nearly overnight. Based off everything I've seen to date though, I make him extremely live against Joshua especially in Joshua's current stand off style where he makes very little of his advantage in size.

Morrison J

OmegaGene wrote: »

Aj won’t swerve Usyk because he’s aiming for the undisputed, Eddie only mentioned it to get a better deal from the Usyk camp
It’s all about the coin for Eddie Hearn

We'll see in the next few days but Usyk and his team have a lot of power here as Joshua dropping the belt means they'll have an easier fight in Joe Joyce with a more favourable split for a vacant title.

OmegaGene

If Aj drops the belt then the Aj v fury undisputed is off the table and I suspect fury would go straight for that belt

squinn2912

Morrison J wrote: »

I just don't get why Whyte can go through hell and back twice to beat Chisora and be rated as a contender yet Usyk makes easier work of Chisora and is seen as simple cannon fodder. Makes zero sense to me.

Usyk definitely hurt and backed Chisora up to take over after the first 3/4 rounds. Arguably might've stepped on the gas more down the stretch and forced a stoppage if he hadn't broken his hand too.

I know it's sparring but he also wobbled Dave Allen badly and essentially put him in retirement. That's with big gloves and head guards against a heavyweight in Allen that's known for his chin and has been in with the likes of Ortiz and Price and never been properly wobbled.

The signs are there that Usyk has the power. I can't believe the fact that he didn't put a tough fighter like Chisora into a body bag that people are just writing off his power. If he lands a solid shot on Joshua he's going to hurt him.

I 100% understand favouring Joshua but some of the Usyk slander on here is mental. Top 5 P4P fighter on the planet. Best fighter Joshua has faced to date if it happens. I'll be very pleasantly surprised if Joshua's team makes the fight but if it happens it's going to be brilliant.

Are you seriously using a good showing in sparring against David Allen as evidence to suggest Usyk might beat Joshua? David Allen who didn’t yet wobbled against Ortiz or Price yet got stopped in both fights and hospitalised in the latter. I was at that and it was painful to watch.

Usyk is good and maybe excellent at CW but this is HW and he’s looked fair. Chisora chased him all over the ring for almost all of the fight and he was uncomfortable throughout landing very little clean.

What signs indicate that Usyk has power at HW level? He’s fought twice, stopped a turkey and looked cumbersome against a journeyman. Hardly earth shattering. I think 4-5 HW fighters beat him

Morrison J

squinn2912 wrote: »

Are you seriously using a good showing in sparring against David Allen as evidence to suggest Usyk might beat Joshua? David Allen who didn’t yet wobbled against Ortiz or Price yet got stopped in both fights and hospitalised in the latter. I was at that and it was painful to watch.

Usyk is good and maybe excellent at CW but this is HW and he’s looked fair. Chisora chased him all over the ring for almost all of the fight and he was uncomfortable throughout landing very little clean.

What signs indicate that Usyk has power at HW level? He’s fought twice, stopped a turkey and looked cumbersome against a journeyman. Hardly earth shattering. I think 4-5 HW fighters beat him

Not using it as a reason he beats Joshua to be fair. Just making the point that he does have power. If he couldn't crack an egg he wouldn't wobble Allen and basically put him into retirement. Got stopped because he was taking a beating against Price and Ortiz, not because he was wobbled/hurt by their power at a particular moment. I hate bringing up sparring but there's actual video evidence of this taking place at least.

Chisora chases everyone around the ring these days. Point still stands that Usyk beat him more comfortably than Whyte or Parker yet people love to talk up Whyte especially as some contender who belongs with the top names in the division. Just don't see any consistency when Usyk's performance is ridiculed despite being better than anyone this version of Chisora has fought of late.

OmegaGene

Dave Allen isn’t a fair marker to show Usyk has power, if you listen to his interviews on the podcasts he’s done the man has mental health issues and has attempted suicide and has admitted to self harming and enjoying being hit.
I think Dave Allen is a very funny bloke and could have made a decent boxer had he bothered to train properly, he was in good shape for the lovejoy fight and I thought he’d turned himself around but sadly not.

Morrison J

OmegaGene wrote: »

Dave Allen isn’t a fair marker to show Usyk has power, if you listen to his interviews on the podcasts he’s done the man has mental health issues and has attempted suicide and has admitted to self harming and enjoying being hit.
I think Dave Allen is a very funny bloke and could have made a decent boxer had he bothered to train properly, he was in good shape for the lovejoy fight and I thought he’d turned himself around but sadly not.

I don't see the correlation between mental health and being able to take a punch to be honest. Allen has been in with a tonne of big pinchers and always been rock solid in the chin department. Dillian Whyte also went the distance and never remotely looked like hurting him.

OmegaGene

Morrison J wrote: »

I don't see the correlation between mental health and being able to take a punch to be honest. Allen has been in with a tonne of big pinchers and always been rock solid in the chin department. Dillian Whyte also went the distance and never remotely looked like hurting him.

sometimes he’s not switched on when he’s fighting or sparring and he hates sparring and just does it because he needs the money
He said in a podcast that fury is the hardest puncher he’s been in with which was a surprise to most

yourdeadwright

Morrison J wrote: »

The difference between Usyk and Joshua will be about 20lbs I'd suspect. Same difference in weight that will be there between Fury and Joshua. Now I know obviously the bigger you get the less that difference in weight matters but I think the difference in skill is so clear between Joshua and Usyk that it helps negate the weight difference that bit more too.

There are bigger red flags with Usyk that come to mind to me before the weight to be honest.

- How inactive he's been,
- Been very injury prone in the last few years
- Is actually 34 now

The fact he relies heavily on his speed, reflexes and stamina means he'll possibly fall off a cliff nearly overnight. Based off everything I've seen to date though, I make him extremely live against Joshua especially in Joshua's current stand off style where he makes very little of his advantage in size.

Yes that is correct but AJ has always performed at this weight Usyk has not all of a sudden at 32-34 he's putting on all this extra weight , he won't ever hit as hard as the big guys but he may be taking away some of his excellent movement,


I honestly think AJ size & power is going to make Usyk skillset pretty redundant, Usyk in my opinion after 2 rounds will be looking to survive ,

walshb

I think Usyk's skillset talk is getting as overrated and hyped as AJs lack thereof.

I see AJ winning no matter what way the fight goes.....

Outboxes Usyk and out-muscles Usyk and outguns him....

AJ has better punch mechanics and delivery than Usyk. Better feet planting when throwing.

Taller, rangier, heavier, stronger........

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

I think Usyk's skillset talk is getting as overrated and hyped as AJs lack thereof.

I see AJ winning no matter what way the fight goes.....

Outboxes Usyk and out-muscles Usyk and outguns him....

AJ has better punch mechanics and delivery than Usyk. Better feet planting when throwing.

Taller, rangier, heavier, stronger........

I think a CW version of both , Usyk wins on points after a hard fought fight,


But in the heavy weight division AJ wipes the floor wit him 10 times out of 10

FileNotFound

Cannot see Usyk being able for AJ to be honest.
More chance of an upset in Fury v Wilder.

Mind you at this stage we just need to see some fights happening, so much posturing/BS with so little ring time.

walshb

I am thinking by early 2022 it will all be behind us....

AJ/Fury/Wilder/Usyk will have been settled.....

The results.......who knows...but the fights will be over.

Cyrus

FileNotFound wrote: »

Cannot see Usyk being able for AJ to be honest.
More chance of an upset in Fury v Wilder.

Mind you at this stage we just need to see some fights happening, so much posturing/BS with so little ring time.

Yep agreed

Noises from john Fury aren't great tbh

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

I am thinking by early 2022 it will all be behind us....

AJ/Fury/Wilder/Usyk will have been settled.....

The results.......who knows...but the fights will be over.

I hope you’re right any longer than a year from now is too
Long.

nacho libre

squinn2912 wrote: »

I hope you’re right any longer than a year from now is too
Long.

Yes, we don't want it to turn into another Pacquaio and Mayweather scenario whereby they are past their best when they finally meet.

OmegaGene

this sounds like shelly finkle and co wanted the pay out rather than the fight, frank warren said the arbitrattion was for damages rather than the rematch


Finkel, 76, went on to reveal that Wilder's camp never even received an offer to step aside.

He added: "We never looked for a step aside or anything.

"But on my logic, if it were me, and I were in Eddie's shoes and before the decision, I'm looking at 150million, plus PPV, plus international TV, whatever. Probably looking close to 200million.

"What would it take to say, 'Hey guys, there is a chance we'll lose, so instead of making 200million, let's offer them something and see if they're interested?'

"It never came to that. It's just silly. If it were me, I would have spoke to my fighter, and said, 'Look, instead of making 100 million, make 90.'

"A lot more than he's going to make to fight Usyk, for sure and we hope to disrupt the party."

nacho libre

OmegaGene wrote: »

this sounds like shelly finkle and co wanted the pay out rather than the fight, frank warren said the arbitrattion was for damages rather than the rematch


Finkel, 76, went on to reveal that Wilder's camp never even received an offer to step aside.

He added: "We never looked for a step aside or anything.

"But on my logic, if it were me, and I were in Eddie's shoes and before the decision, I'm looking at 150million, plus PPV, plus international TV, whatever. Probably looking close to 200million.

"What would it take to say, 'Hey guys, there is a chance we'll lose, so instead of making 200million, let's offer them something and see if they're interested?'

"It never came to that. It's just silly. If it were me, I would have spoke to my fighter, and said, 'Look, instead of making 100 million, make 90.'

"A lot more than he's going to make to fight Usyk, for sure and we hope to disrupt the party."

Well someone is lying, because it was put out that Wilder wanted 20 million to step aside. It would not surprise me if Bob Arum knew months ago the Joshua fight was not going to happen, and he was just happy to keep Fury in the public eye. It might explain the interviews he gave where he cautioned the fight might not happen, but still held out the prospect that it might. As Finkel says to make the biggest we've seen years, why would both parties not agree to a little less money in order to make it happen.

yourdeadwright

nacho libre wrote: »

Well someone is lying, because it was put out that Wilder wanted 20 million to step aside. It would not surprise me if Bob Arum knew months ago the Joshua fight was not going to happen, and he was just happy to keep Fury in the public eye. It might explain the interviews he gave where he cautioned the fight might not happen, but still held out the prospect that it might. As Finkel says to make the biggest we've seen years, why would both parties not agree to a little less money in order to make it happen.

Any one notice in the day's leading up to the Billy Joe fight Fury was interviewed in the hotel. &
kept sayin in interviews he couldnt talk about Wilder as he recently found out it would be used againt in court

Also he bought a house in Vegas a week before that fight almost like he knew hed be back in Vegas ASAP,

I reckon himself & his team found out a week or two before everyone else & said nothing to use the publicity,

Very unFury like not to put out a social media video condemning the decisions,

I reckon his team new & talked him into the 3rd Wilder fight, Remember he kept talking about being inactive & wanting a fight any fight as being inactive would be his hardest challenge v AJ, almost teasing a warm up,

He probably stunned Wilder & his team agreeing to the fight & not offering step aside money lile they actually wanted

Fury now gets a warm up, gets well paid & fights a guy he beat last time out

OmegaGene

as your username suggests i think youre dead right lol
fury could do with a fight before aj really after not fighting in december as planned and an easier opponent might have been a shout

nacho libre

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Any one notice in the day's leading up to the Billy Joe fight Fury was interviewed in the hotel. &
kept sayin in interviews he couldnt talk about Wilder as he recently found out it would be used againt in court

Also he bought a house in Vegas a week before that fight almost like he knew hed be back in Vegas ASAP,

I did not hear those interviews, but it does makes sense. It would explain why he really held out on signing the contract to fight AJ, he claimed it was over a guarantee on site fees.
No doubt Bob Arum is persuasive, but so much for titles and money not really meaning anything to Tyson.

OmegaGene

nacho libre wrote: »

I did not hear those interviews, but it does makes sense. It would explain why he really held out on signing the contract to fight AJ, he claimed it was over a guarantee on site fees.
No doubt Bob Arum is persuasive, but so much for titles and money not really meaning anything to Tyson.

They knew the arbitration result was close but only the judge would know the outcome and it wasn’t his first boxing case either

Titles and money not meaning anything ? It’s a legal obligation to fulfil the original contract so what’s he meant to do
Frank Warren said that the arbitration means the fight has to happen by September regardless of wether there’s a belt involved, so fury can’t toss the belt in the bin and fight Aj as his dad said the other day

nacho libre

OmegaGene wrote: »

They knew the arbitration result was close but only the judge would know the outcome and it wasn’t his first boxing case either

Titles and money not meaning anything ? It’s a legal obligation to fulfil the original contract so what’s he meant to do
Frank Warren said that the arbitration means the fight has to happen by September regardless of wether there’s a belt involved, so fury can’t toss the belt in the bin and fight Aj as his dad said the other day

Ah Fair enough. I thought he could avoid it by either giving up the belt or by paying step aside money.