Apple Athenry data centre

Larbre34

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Been told that the family of the architect in Athenry who objected are pretty much pariahs over this.

I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again - this is a huge warning to anybody who is thinking of a big infrastructure project that they are better off taking the money and jobs to another country.

Pariah might be the least of their problems. Remember how physically nasty things turned in Cavan / Fermanagh against some of the perceived villains in the Quinn Group collapse?

Varadkar said months ago that he was inclined to add data centres and the like as 'strategic infrastructure' to planning legislation, which would raise the bar on objections and short-cut the process. That was always going to be too late for Athenry, but the concern is that the legislation will go so far as a knee-jerk that it wipes out legitimate objections when they arise.

These fools have probably disenfranchised local interests in a lot of future cases, such was there vexatiousness

Salthillprom

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Been told that the family of the architect in Athenry who objected are pretty much pariahs over this.

I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again - this is a huge warning to anybody who is thinking of a big infrastructure project that they are better off taking the money and jobs to another country.

Those local objectors/people who appealed are a disgrace to themselves, to Galway, to their localities and their families and should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

RoscommonTom

between this and the story about the hurling club their seems to be a lot of Fools down that neck of the woods, no jobs at all down this part of the world and the locals turn their backs on these ones,

Nettle Soup

Salthillprom wrote: »

Those local objectors/people who appealed are a disgrace to themselves, to Galway, to their localities and their families and should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

Ah get a grip. A lot more smoke and mirrors involved here than you can even comprehend.

...so can we ask for the 13 Billion Euros in back taxes now?

Salthillprom

Salthillprom wrote: »

Those local objectors/people who appealed are a disgrace to themselves, to Galway, to their localities and their families and should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

+100, they should be shunned for the rest of their days by the entire locality.

Nettle Soup wrote: »

...so can we ask for the 13 Billion Euros in back taxes now?

No, this money should not and will not be taken (or it will be taken and given back). In general the the EU is a good thing but this is nothing more than the likes of France pushing their weight around while offering similar deals themselves behind it all. Our tax affairs should be ours and the middle finger should be given to the EU over this. I'm confident Ireland and apple will win the case anyway.

Larbre34

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Ah get a grip. A lot more smoke and mirrors involved here than you can even comprehend.

...so can we ask for the 13 Billion Euros in back taxes now?

Why dont you break it down for us? One syllable at a time for us thickies please

The EU tax decision that neither Ireland nor Apple wanted has zero to do with the Athenry data centre issue and, as im sure you know well, is being further appealed with the money in escrow.

Nettle Soup

Larbre34 wrote: »

Why dont you break it down for us? One syllable at a time for us thickies please

I couldn't be arsed. Anyway the mob are busy gathering torches and pitchforks.

Nettle Soup

Johnny Poor Lemonade wrote: »

+100, they should be shunned for the rest of their days by the entire locality.

Very Christian of you.

Pathetic.

Nettle Soup

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Very Christian of you.

Pathetic.

Someday you may be in tears putting your child on a plane abroad to get a job or send them up to Dublin to fight it out for a room to sleep in. If/when it happens think of today as its this sort of bull that stops job creation and means people have to leave their areas no matter how much they want to stay as they can't find work.

This could have been huge for Co. Galway and the west if Ireland in general and now its gone.

Nettle Soup

Johnny Poor Lemonade wrote: »

Someday you may be in tears putting your child on a plane abroad to get a job or send them up to Dublin to fight it out for a room to sleep in. If/when it happens think of today as its this sort of bull that stops job creation and means people have to leave their areas no matter how much they want to stay as they can't find work.

This could have been huge for Co. Galway and the west if Ireland in general and now its gone.

This waffle does not excuse your scapegoating.

they should be shunned for the rest of their days by the entire locality.

Would you have their kids bullied at school too?

AlekSmart

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Ah get a grip. A lot more smoke and mirrors involved here than you can even comprehend.

...so can we ask for the 13 Billion Euros in back taxes now?

Having the likes of Apple headquartered and operating in Ireland is well worth that €13 Billion,as the EU well knows.

You can be very confident that had Apple reached the same deals with Paris or Bonn the sense of outrage would be somewhat muted ?

While the total of 50 PERMANENT jobs associated with the data Centre would seem small,the real spin off would be in associated on going maintenance and care for the premises and equipment.

Whether our small band of proffessional objectors consider themselves to be made of sterner stuff that the Danish folk,is well worth asking,since Denmark may well now move to consolidate it's current Apple deal.

I would be quite surprised were Denmark to suddenly emerge as a Country with a lesser regard for it's environment than Ireland,which would now appear to be the premise our objectors represent.

Having just eturned from a couple of days in and around Leitrim/Cavan/Roscommon and Offaly,it is readily apparent that Ireland desperately needs big-ticket infrastructural investment.

It is also worth asking who exactly is funding these objections and appeals,as the greater-good principle appears to have been dispensed with in favour of sectionalized and tightly focused groupings,with minimal interest in the welfare of future Irish people as opoposed to Irish Flora & Fauna,which in the Athenry case will now lie undisturbed for the foreseeable.

Much of this stuff appears to be based upon ego,and the desire to prove personal superiority over the "Ordinary" person..goals which have been fairly well reached in this case ?

Raging_Ninja

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Very Christian of you.

Pathetic.

How many people's livelihoods could have been improved had this project gone ahead? How many infrastructure projects will be discouraged for fear of similar objectors and lengthy delays?

However, one of the biggest issues here is not the objectors, though that guy in Wexford can properly go fúck himself for being an opportunist. The single biggest issue overshadowing this is how long it takes these things to wind through the courts. 3 people delayed a large infrastructure project for 3 years until the investor gave ups. The objectors didn't even need to win a single case to get their desired outcome. Justice delayed is justice denied.

billbond4

The Data Centre isnt a infrastructure project, its a purely private project.
The planning should have be rejected years ago, the process took too long

Raging_Ninja

billbond4 wrote: »

The Data Centre isnt a infrastructure project, its a purely private project.

Do you really think that makes a difference? The process is the exact same.

AlekSmart

Nettle Soup wrote: »

This waffle does not excuse your scapegoating.

Would you have their kids bullied at school too?

One could ask,if they are indeed parents,whether or not they gave any consideration to aspects such as you outline ?

Perhaps,on more mature reflection,any bullying may well turn out to be Parentally inflicted,in the sense of their own children being denied the opportunity of good quality local jobs,even if they are with a U.S. Multinational.

It would seem,that many similar objectors,particularly those against large Multi-National Corporate developments,carry on their crusades in splendid isolation from the communities,they sometimes claim to represent.

Perhaps Mr Varadakar is correct in speaking of denoting these type of developments as "Strategic",and thus nullifying the easy-option which many serial objectors choose.

billbond4

Not really Government Infrastructure projects have a different process to private projects.

what_traffic

Good article in the IT about this.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/supreme-court-to-decide-later-on-apple-data-centre-appeal-1.3490386

RTE has a good timeline
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0510/961458-apple/

The planning and legal system is so slow.

AlekSmart

billbond4 wrote: »

The Data Centre isnt a infrastructure project, its a purely private project.
The planning should have be rejected years ago, the process took too long

On the contrary,whilst the Data Centre itself might be regarded as a simple part of Apple inc's Infrastructure,the greater project would 100% be contribue hugely to the Infrastructure in and around the region.

The range of services,supplies and supports demanded by the construction phase alone would have contributed Billion of € into the LOCAL economy.

Add to this,the broader message sent to other interested companies about cooperation,and receptiveness to such development would only serve to raise Irelands profile abroad.

It is not as if there are many Irish based companies capable of funding these projects,so perhaps it is more acceptable that we let the Danish make the moves,and then secretly hope that it will implode on them.

John b was'nt far wrong,and modern Ireland is'nt much further on from his depiction either....:)

billbond4

From
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0510/961458-apple/
5 November 2017 - "The Government confirms that in future data centres such as the one proposed for Athenry will be considered strategic infrastructure for planning purposes."

I dont see how data centers can be considered strategic infrastructure, its a private enterprise, its not like a privately funded road project.

salmocab

Whilst the data centers are obviously a private enterprise the infrastructure has to get upgraded especially the electricity supply this coupled with upgraded fiber network would draw more businesses especially data centers to an area.
They don’t supply massive amounts of jobs given their size but they do supply a mix of well paid high tech jobs and lower paid jobs for security cleaners and even warehousing, these could be very beneficial to a rural area.

billbond4

How can a servers in a Shed "contribute hugely to the Infrastructure in and around the region" ?
The bandied about 850million€ is probably 90+% made up of imported data servers, that give no return to the tax payer.

Rezident

the whole year inn wrote: »

Not as if apple are going to run out of data centers,surely this will go ahead, just a matter of time.

No. This lazy Irish attitude is part of the problem. Our politicians must have been labouring under the same delusion.

Doctors room ghost

Rezident wrote: »

No. This lazy Irish attitude is part of the problem. Our politicians must have been labouring under the same delusion.

The good ship apple has sailed. The paddywhackers missed the boat.pat on the back for all the gombeens involved.

Salthillprom

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Ah get a grip. A lot more smoke and mirrors involved here than you can even comprehend.

...so can we ask for the 13 Billion Euros in back taxes now?

Trust me...I know a lot more about this than you’d even imagine.

AlekSmart

billbond4 wrote: »

How can a servers in a Shed "contribute hugely to the Infrastructure in and around the region" ?
The bandied about 850million€ is probably 90+% made up of imported data servers, that give no return to the tax payer.

"Sheds",particularly big one's such as this development entailed,require ongoing maintenance,painting,draining,fettling and all the usual stuff which only tends to occupy most Irish shed proprietors after the advent of a hurricane or deluge.

Perhaps Apple's shed will be a special non-maintenance one,and Apple will trust in God that the roof will never leak,or the birds will never nest in the eaves,and poop on the Pentiums.

If it's a big build & forget shed,then your projection is spot on,however I suspect the experience of shed owners countrywide will be at odds with it.

Never mind the 90% of Apple's Data Servers being Imported....where else are we to get the things...they are hardly selling well in Moore St these days ?

Perhaps the objectors are correct....

But objectors charged that appropriate environmental assessments had yet to be completed and that the facility might use as much as 6pc of the national grid’s electricity output.

However the issues of just how many "Environmental Assessments" are required along with the revelation that it could use up to 6% of our National Grid output are surely significant benefits,particularly for Environmental Assessors and Electricity Suppliers,both areas which might require significant additional resources to support the Data Centre.

It is indeed an Irish peculiarity whereby we manage to avoid virtually ALL of the positive elements,and instead focus on supposed negatives,mostly based upon whimsical conjecture.

At this rate,Mayo County Council will have to grant permission for a three-storey extension to the Quiet Man Cottage,to cater for the amount of visitors wanting to get a feel for the "Real Ireland".

Fann Linn

billbond4 wrote: »

From
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0510/961458-apple/
5 November 2017 - "The Government confirms that in future data centres such as the one proposed for Athenry will be considered strategic infrastructure for planning purposes."

I dont see how data centers can be considered strategic infrastructure, its a private enterprise, its not like a privately funded road project.

Strategic for local politicians seats more like.

zom

billbond4 wrote: »

From
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0510/961458-apple/
5 November 2017 - "The Government confirms that in future data centres such as the one proposed for Athenry will be considered strategic infrastructure for planning purposes."

From http://www.thejournal.ie/varadkar-brexit-sweden-3703114-Nov2017/
- "Taoiseach Leo Varadkar shows his socks to Uk Prime Minister Theresa May"

dubhthach

billbond4 wrote: »

How can a servers in a Shed "contribute hugely to the Infrastructure in and around the region" ?
.

Power and Network infrastructure are key benefices, data center like this would have gobble a couple hundred Gb/s of network bandwidth, as a result it would have made it lot more viable for commerical ISP/IP transit companies to provision in the area. Likewise the power draw would have result in both local grid upgrades (which makes area more attractive for other businesses) and also would have no doubt had led to Apple purchasing guarantee's of certain amount of renewable generation. Just like how Microsoft bought the entire output of the GE wind farm in Kerry for a 5-10 year period. The microsoft deal if anything made private wind farm construction more viable in this country as it shows there is a market for large scale corporates buying generation straight from wind farm developers.

dubhthach

Meanwhile Google just started work on spending 150m on expanding their datacenter in Grange Castle, it's only an Ass roar away from Microsoft's 'Data Center campus' which currently has at least three data centers (and room for another three to build)

Ardent

billbond4 wrote: »

From
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0510/961458-apple/
5 November 2017 - "The Government confirms that in future data centres such as the one proposed for Athenry will be considered strategic infrastructure for planning purposes."

I dont see how data centers can be considered strategic infrastructure, its a private enterprise, its not like a privately funded road project.

The government have decided to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. You can't just quash all and any objections to a development - talk about going from one extreme to the other!