Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 3

clint_silver

PARlance wrote: »

I would have to disagree with one major point there, she was far from fantastic in that game. I thought it was an embarrassing display. I don't have the time to go back and look at the comments, but there were certainly a few on here saying the same. She wanted to do it all that day, and her day of doing it all is gone. It's definitely gone now.

Maybe. My standout memory of her in that was being triple team marked for most of the game and her still hitting 7-8 points of mayos 11.

She did fade after a few bad wides. I’ve seen her better. Either way.

Leahy is a good manager. He’ll have known the game is gone beyond an individual.

The Talking Bread

#MayoToo

flasher0030

Floppybits wrote: »

Well it was going to happen, the statement the players gave when this blew up and then the Cora Staunton interview on Off the ball and finally todays press release which had all the buzzwords such as intimidation, being undermined, being isolated and cream on top Mental health, is not showing the girls in a good light.

The only evidence they gave to back this up was the captain being criticised for her performances in training.

If everything is taken at face value, sounds to me like he just likes to use bully boy tactics. This old fashioned idea that “I am the manager. My way or the highway” is old-fashioned tripe. A manager is there is manage facilities, teams etc. but also to manage people. And people come with different personalities. On the basis of the way that he spoke to Sarah Tierney (if it is fully true), I would have given him a shoe in the h0le. He is there to encourage players to express themselves to play the best football they can and to enjoy it. Not to ignite conflict and bad vibes within a camp. Take the example of the most successful football manager in the past number of years. I don’t know Jim Gavin personally, but could you imagine him ringing up Stephen Cluxton to give him a boll0cking for making an innocuous comment like any chance of a bit of ballwork. I don’t think so.

We have reached a new low in "moments when people trot out the mental health line".

Whoever wrote that nonsense really needs to get a grip. People fell out. It happens. Move on.

benji79

flasher0030 wrote: »

If everything is taken at face value, sounds to me like he just likes to use bully boy tactics. This old fashioned idea that “I am the manager. My way or the highway” is old-fashioned tripe. A manager is there is manage facilities, teams etc. but also to manage people. And people come with different personalities. On the basis of the way that he spoke to Sarah Tierney (if it is fully true), I would have given him a shoe in the h0le. He is there to encourage players to express themselves to play the best football they can and to enjoy it. Not to ignite conflict and bad vibes within a camp. Take the example of the most successful football manager in the past number of years. I don’t know Jim Gavin personally, but could you imagine him ringing up Stephen Cluxton to give him a boll0cking for making an innocuous comment like any chance of a bit of ballwork. I don’t think so.

A player is there to manage people you say. What about people who don’t want to be managed, how do you deal with them?

flasher0030

benji79 wrote: »

A player is there to manage people you say. What about people who don’t want to be managed, how do you deal with them?

A manager is there to manage people.
Where in Sarah Tierney's comments do you extract that she doesn't want to be managed. I'm basing it on what seems to be the first altercation that set things in motion - what seemed to be a harmless comment.

Like I say, I'm only going on what she said. If she is putting those comments out there, knowing they are not true, she is leaving herself wide open.

Edgware

Does anyone really care about these women? Maybe if they ran home to Mammy they might get some sympathy but it is all about the Dublin and Cork girls now and the increase in physicality and contact in the game. Staunton is at the end of the line now so she might as well face up to it. Its the likes of Sinead Ahearne, Rena Buckley etc that the media will turn to for coverage of games

homewardbound11

Leahys interview was very well orchestrated. But I found him continuously deflecting towards health and safety .

If Sarah is to believed and no reason why not then there is no place for intimidation like that in women’s football . Without being sexiest is it really a good attribute to have in men’s football either .
Wouldn’t think Gavin or rochford or Fismaurice would get the most out of his teams with intimidation .

homewardbound11

homewardbound11 wrote: »

Leahys interview was very well orchestrated. But I found him continuously deflecting towards health and safety .

If Sarah is to believed and no reason why not then there is no place for intimidation like that in women’s football . Without being sexiest is it really a good attribute to have in men’s football either .
Wouldn’t think Gavin or rochford or Fismaurice would get the most out of his teams with intimidation .

It's certainly not a modern or progressive way to manage a team and not something that I would like to see in a county team.

But it's painfully obvious that the ladies who left did so in an attempt to force his resignation and were extremely reckless with the language that they used in doing so. That was too far and they have went down in peoples estimation because of that, and also because of the fact they made themselves greater than the team.

homewardbound11

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's certainly not a modern or progressive way to manage a team and not something that I would like to see in a county team.

But it's painfully obvious that the ladies who left did so in an attempt to force his resignation and were extremely reckless with the language that they used in doing so. That was too far and they have went down in peoples estimation because of that, and also because of the fact they made themselves greater than the team.

Fair point there.

djPSB

Panrich wrote: »

This has spiralled out of control on all sides now. Whether the county board and Leahy stick to their guns, or we have a change, we'll be put back decades in ladies football in the county with the loss of so many players. The hope that something could be worked out has been dashed by the latest round of media interviews.

There's no way those women could go back into the panel regardless of who the manager is.

Floppybits

Thought the county board chairman was fair to them on off the ball there. He did say that the mental health issue was never raised with them and it was the first they heard it last night. He did say that in mental health it can take some time for the issues to appear.

Beechwoodspark

The county board man was very fair minded and reasonable on Newstalk I thought

JRant

What was the end game for these ladies? That's the bit that I can't seem to understand.

They talk of mental health issues but not a single ****e was given to the mental health of the management team with their comments. In today's society if you accuse a man of being "unsafe" due to "personal and sensitive" issues, then you had better be prepared to back that up. People's lives can be completely destroyed by stuff like this.

They also said he didn't believe in equality. Now they may feel some players we're treated differently but that's not an equality issue, it's a question of fairness. Very damaging language used with the sole intention of mudding the man's character.

Also, being called lazy is not a mental health issue, jesus Christ, what sort of eejit comes out with this stuff.

People saying Jim Gavin would talk to a player like that, well he might not speak in such a manner but he is absolutely ruthless with the players and they know it. Far more ruthless than Leahy and the likes of Staunton would have been out on their ear at the first sign of this rubbish.

crusier

This is a very slippery road, if your in management now and you drop a player you are responsible for a mental health issue. This is the end! I knew this would happen when they got the vote!

clint_silver

crusier wrote: »

This is a very slippery road, if your in management now and you drop a player you are responsible for a mental health issue. This is the end! I knew this would happen when they got the vote!

leahy said the same thing many times in his interview. May of us on here have played and only with beneift of hindsight you can review a managers decision Most of us were dropped or bombed altogether and disagreed but we can say now we know the manager was only thinking of the team.

Leahy is looking at his squad and thinking the ladies game is gone beyond an individual, they discuss it internally, all his management, they decide that Staunton can be used to best effect as a sub. She'll disagree naturally, her feelings will be very hurt.

Heres the real hurt, Staunton and the others have demeaned lgfa by doing this, theyve said women have to be treated differently if theyre dropped, spoken to differently, this hurts the sport, theyre saying they cant be spoken to in a certain way, if the manager thinks one of them is lazy, at county level you have to be mentally strong enough to take that on the chin and up your game. Staunton is saying no, thats not right, youre not allowed say what you think, even if you're the manager.

As most of us are lads, you ever have a manager ball you out of it? best manager I ever had left me in no uncertain terms what he thought of my performance one day, stripped my esteem down to nothing in front of rest of lads. I went off, thought about it, trained harder then anyone else, did hours on my own, 2 weeks later in next game I smashed everyone in front of me to prove him wrong. I'll never forget those words that day. Was only years later I had the maturity to admit to myself he was right.

Happyilylost

clint_silver wrote:

Leahy is looking at his squad and thinking the ladies game is gone beyond an individual, they discuss it internally, all his management, they decide that Staunton can be used to best effect as a sub. She'll disagree naturally, her feelings will be very hurt.

Forget about Staunton. And maybe many would say you can't because she is core to the issue. But I would simply for the sake of both sides of the story ask how can the manager speak with such high regard for Sarah Tierney and yet the statement today seems to focus on the "turmoil" this lady went through. The two don't add up. It's not unreasonable to think this lady would of had meetings outside the group of players with management. She obviously wasn't happy. Maybe she was and it's all driven by Cora or the other 10 but for me it doesn't add up.

clint_silver

Happyilylost wrote: »

Forget about Staunton. And maybe many would say you can't because she is core to the issue. But I would simply for the sake of both sides of the story ask how can the manager speak with such high regard for Sarah Tierney and yet the statement today seems to focus on the "turmoil" this lady went through. The two don't add up. It's not unreasonable to think this lady would of had meetings outside the group of players with management. She obviously wasn't happy. Maybe she was and it's all driven by Cora or the other 10 but for me it doesn't add up.

nothing about what the players have said or done does add up.

Every county setup has liaison offers, county officers, players reps, 1 v 1s with managers, always with others in place. All to protect all sides in case somethings wrong. The players in question all ignored all of those safety procedures, the safeguards, the officers, never told them anything, just walked. And only THEN came out with statements.

They haven't a leg to stand on here. It all sounds made up from them from start to finish.

TCDStudent1

Happyilylost wrote: »

Forget about Staunton. And maybe many would say you can't because she is core to the issue. But I would simply for the sake of both sides of the story ask how can the manager speak with such high regard for Sarah Tierney and yet the statement today seems to focus on the "turmoil" this lady went through. The two don't add up. It's not unreasonable to think this lady would of had meetings outside the group of players with management. She obviously wasn't happy. Maybe she was and it's all driven by Cora or the other 10 but for me it doesn't add up.

I think he may have been alluding to her being unhappy in the interview. For example, he was saying stuff like Sarah Tierney always wanted the best for the players etc. My impression was that there was a major personality clash between him & Tierney throughout the year. However, he felt that the Carnacon girls issue was purely selection based.

ureds

Carnacon staying in Championship football but fined €500 and the 8 players who walked are suspended for 4 weeks.

clint_silver

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I think he may have been alluding to her being unhappy in the interview. For example, he was saying stuff like Sarah Tierney always wanted the best for the players etc. My impression was that there was a major personality clash between him & Tierney throughout the year. However, he felt that the Carnacon girls issue was purely selection based.

I got this too. Such a pity, more then likely stauntons last year, with the carnacon girls they could have challenged dublin this year, I know sport is always a game of what ifs, never more so here if youre invested in it.

We should be talking about the health of the sport itself. The 50k plus attendees . I seen busses of schoolgirl teams. Likes Ive ever seen before and Ive been at last 7 finals. Its only going one way.

maximus15

The exiles statement came way 2 late and was never going to come across as anything but a hasty riposte to leahys.
It was embarrassing listening to the former captains piece on radio this evening . When she started throwing out dates and times, over 6 months after the events it felt like it was a calculated attempt to discredit leahy and she must have thought she was in a court room!

It never made sense from the start when "welfare"and "unsafe" were thrown about.
Why on earth would the rest of the girls stay in such an environment so!
All they had to was borrow the "10 steps to getting rid of a mayo manager" from the senior men and step 1 would be , make sure more than a third of the squad wants the manager out!
None of these girls will play for mayo again.

For anyone on this forum who has played in any team, who would want to play with anyone again who jumps ship in middle of championship when you have slogged all winter to try avenge on an all ireland final defeat. Worse again pretty much gives you the 2 finger salute by stating their welfare is more important than yours.

Finally while I have to say the documentary on cora was very good and she came across as natural enough kind of individual most of it, there is no doubt she still believes in her own ability and when you see her taking no heed of what a doctor for a professional club tells her on 2 occasions, it's obvious she would be be hard to handle for any manager with her headstrong attitude, even if it's all about winning with her.
The younger girls in squad would need to be very strong minded to stand up to her which was needed in many a game in last couple years where she infrequently changed from her shoot on site policy.
Ya she might have scored 7 or 8 points in the final last year but missed more than that. If you fire enough bullets, you will hit the target every so often!

mayo.mick

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/mayo-lgfa-fail-in-their-bid-to-have-carnacon-thrown-out-of-the-championship-but-the-club-are-fined-and-eight-players-are-suspended-37331647.html

clint_silver

mayo.mick wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/mayo-lgfa-fail-in-their-bid-to-have-carnacon-thrown-out-of-the-championship-but-the-club-are-fined-and-eight-players-are-suspended-37331647.html

Sounds reasonable although it would imply in appealing that the Mayo board put the blame, in some portion at least, at the door of the club.

Does the 4 week ban affect any games for the club?

RedDevil55

mayo.mick wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/mayo-lgfa-fail-in-their-bid-to-have-carnacon-thrown-out-of-the-championship-but-the-club-are-fined-and-eight-players-are-suspended-37331647.html

Hopefully that's the last we've heard of it now.

seligehgit

All hell breaks loose while I'm abroad.

Sadly all ends up with a massive and unlikely to be repaired schism in the Mayo ladies panel.

Update on Mayo management position.

Mayo News Football Podcast 2018 - Manager Update


https://themayonews.podomatic.com/enclosure/2018-09-18T08_52_07-07_00.mp3

ureds

clint_silver wrote: »

mayo.mick wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/mayo-lgfa-fail-in-their-bid-to-have-carnacon-thrown-out-of-the-championship-but-the-club-are-fined-and-eight-players-are-suspended-37331647.html

Sounds reasonable although it would imply in appealing that the Mayo board put the blame, in some portion at least, at the door of the club.

Does the 4 week ban affect any games for the club?

Carnacon have a Championship match on Sunday v Knockmore

Golfgorfield

This has all peaked really nicely just in time for her book launch.
From someone who is not at all from Mayo, ive watched her matches, she is selfish on the ball, selfish without the ball(taking free taking away from players, basically dragging ball out of their hands) Its disturbing to watch.

TCDStudent1

seligehgit wrote: »

All hell breaks loose while I'm abroad.

Sadly all ends up with a massive and unlikely to be repaired schism in the Mayo ladies panel.

Update on Mayo management position.

Mayo News Football Podcast 2018 - Manager Update


https://themayonews.podomatic.com/enclosure/2018-09-18T08_52_07-07_00.mp3

Have they discussed the womens team controversy on that show?

blinding

Kora disappeared somewhere Up down Under .