Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 3

charlie14

djPSB wrote: »

Would bringing back Connelly/Holmes be an option if the players could put their differences behind them. Alot of C&H points about what Mayo require to win an All Ireland have proved true unfortunately.

With all the controversy regardless of how right or wrong there points were not a chance.
If Rochford goes I could see it being difficult to get an established manager at county level to take on the job.
Is there no club manager in Mayo who would be suitable ?
What about the present Castlebar Mitchells manager or Peter Forde who has managed both Sligo and Galway in the past ?

djPSB

charlie14 wrote: »

With all the controversy regardless of how right or wrong there points were not a chance.
If Rochford goes I could see it being difficult to get an established manager at county level to take on the job.
Is there no club manager in Mayo who would be suitable ?
What about the present Castlebar Mitchells manager or Peter Forde who has managed both Sligo and Galway in the past ?

John Maughan had success as club level last year and probably brought the County as close to an All Ireland as anyone in the past. Don't think he would be a popular option with the players though.

Kevin McStay from the Rossies is maybe the logical option. Again would clash with some of the egos in the squad but that might not be any harm.

Stoner

djPSB wrote:

Kevin McStay from the Rossies is maybe the logical option. Again would clash with some of the egos in the squad but that might not be any harm.

McStay seemed to indicate that his detailed knowledge of club football is within Roscommon now and that has been the case for 20 years.

The McGuinness's, Harte, Gavin etc have all worked very closely with the U21 set up before and after taking the senior squad. O'Connor is at the same thing in Kerry.

Who was the 2016 U21 manager?

PARlance

Please stay Stephen! Especially if Forde, Maughan & McStay are the type of people being talked about as replacements.

Loafing Oaf

blinding wrote: »

I wonder would Jim McGuinness be interested in the Mayo Job if it became available . Or has he more lucrative options at the Moment .

Not sure Elverys would stump up for the flights back and forth to China for training sessions!:P

charlie14

djPSB wrote: »

John Maughan had success as club level last year and probably brought the County as close to an All Ireland as anyone in the past. Don't think he would be a popular option with the players though.

Kevin McStay from the Rossies is maybe the logical option. Again would clash with some of the egos in the squad but that might not be any harm.

Forgot about John Maughan. Certainly a credible option.


McStay for me was the one that got away, or more like the one that was let get away because some didn`t want his brother-in-law involved.
I thought with his record with St Brigid`s, a great ex player and his commitment by giving up a well paid gig like The Sunday Game to manage his own county deserved better from the Mayo county board.

charlie14

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Not sure Elverys would stump up for the flights back and forth to China for training sessions!:P

If his time in Donegal is anything to go by that would not be a problem.
He provided much of the funding for the team from successful Donegal business people around the world through personal contact.


Mayo should not be short of a few of those

Coillte_Bhoy

charlie14 wrote: »

Forgot about John Maughan. Certainly a credible option.


McStay for me was the one that got away, or more like the one that was let get away because some didn`t want his brother-in-law involved.
I thought with his record with St Brigid`s, a great ex player and his commitment by giving up a well paid gig like The Sunday Game to manage his own county deserved better from the Mayo county board.

He gave up one paid gig for an equally well paid if not better gig, the reason he didnt get anywhere in his quest for the Mayo job was also down to money.

And at inter county level what exactly has he done thats so noteworthy? He proved himself tactically naive in the semi last year and then saw his team annihilated on the replay for a start

keeponhurling

jr86 wrote: »

Not realistic to win a Connacht? Ah come on now.

With the same team as 2016-2018, yes.

km79

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Not sure Elverys would stump up for the flights back and forth to China for training sessions!:P

He is finished in China

km79

crusier wrote: »

Seeing as he's not a Mayo man he'll make a good scapegoat for the loss and failure to win an All Ireland.

No management team has won the AI so 1951 so please don’t be putting words in people’s mouths

I asked a genuine question .

jr86

PARlance wrote: »

Please stay Stephen! Especially if Forde, Maughan & McStay are the type of people being talked about as replacements.

It's a sobering thought indeed, but there are unlikely to be many viable contenders out there

keeponhurling wrote: »

With the same team as 2016-2018, yes.

A team who made two AI finals in that period, drawing 1, losing the other 2 by a point each and in that time beating Kerry and Tyrone (the best of the rest) in knockout matches

There wouldn't have been too many in the country predicting anything but a sure-fire Mayo 2016 Connacht Title walking out of Pearse Stadium in June 2015 or after losing the replay to Dublin in early September.

Brutal mayo teams have won Connacht Titles in the past, a fresher approach in 2018, with a bit more bloody discipline against Galway (a match that may not even transpire, if Mayo draw leitrim or Sligo in the semi!!) and it's hardly a stretch to think Mayo might come out with the narrow win - that galway got the last two years, emphasis on 'narrow'

You'd swear Dublin have been moved from Leinster or something. Goodness knows what shape Galway will be in. I don't think I've ever seen Mayo's chances of winning a Connacht Title in my lifetime, being described as "unrealistic"

charlie14

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

He gave up one paid gig for an equally well paid if not better gig, the reason he didnt get anywhere in his quest for the Mayo job was also down to money.

And at inter county level what exactly has he done thats so noteworthy? He proved himself tactically naive in the semi last year and then saw his team annihilated on the replay for a start

The Sunday Game is a very well paid gig and takes a whole lot less effort and time than being a senior county manager.
Even so I would doubt there is more money for managing Roscommon than managing Mayo, but if there is then the Mayo county board would need to take a serious look at themselves.


If you want to compare like with like between him and Rochford he did win Connacht plus he has twice got Roscommon promoted to Div 1.

Coillte_Bhoy

charlie14 wrote: »

The Sunday Game is a very well paid gig and takes a whole lot less effort and time than being a senior county manager.
Even so I would doubt there is more money for managing Roscommon than managing Mayo, but if there is then the Mayo county board would need to take a serious look at themselves.


If you want to compare like with like between him and Rochford he did win Connacht plus he has twice got Roscommon promoted to Div 1.

Agreed the Sunday game is far less effort etc

The Mayo Co Board acted responsibly, we are in enough of a financial mess as it is.

I dont particularly want to compare them but Rochford actually kept us in Div 1 and got to 2 AI finals, a far bigger achievement than winning one meaningful match in the Connacht Cship

PressRun

What about Mike Solan?

This is only if Rochford actually decides to leave. I'd rather he stayed tbh.

djPSB

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

He gave up one paid gig for an equally well paid if not better gig, the reason he didnt get anywhere in his quest for the Mayo job was also down to money.

And at inter county level what exactly has he done thats so noteworthy? He proved himself tactically naive in the semi last year and then saw his team annihilated on the replay for a start

He delivered a Connacht title. Which is more than SR delivered and with less talent at his disposal.

jr86

It's an absolutely pointless comparison

they took over two completely different sides, at completely different stages of their development, with completely different ambitions at the time

charlie14

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

The Mayo Co Board acted responsibly, we are in enough of a financial mess as it is.

I dont particularly want to compare them but Rochford actually kept us in Div 1 and got to 2 AI finals, a far bigger achievement than winning one meaningful match in the Connacht Cship

As i said, I doubt McStay not getting the Mayo job had anything much to do with money.
Even if it did, I doubt Roscommon are particular flush with the re-development of Hyde Park.
When it comes to teams serious about winning an AI they look on the league as a blooding ground for new players to strengthen their squads for the championship and giving a break to players who have been on the road a long time.
I cannot see where Mayo did either this year.
Nobody, not even their own supporters, a wet week later cares who won or did well in the league.


With the Super 8 format this year Mayo should not have given a tinkers damn about the league imo.
Winning a Connacht championship wasn`t just one meaningful game this year, for Mayo it should have been the meaningful game to build their year around.

PressRun

djPSB wrote: »

He delivered a Connacht title. Which is more than SR delivered and with less talent at his disposal.

Who cares? McStay neither wants nor would be getting the job.

charlie14

PressRun wrote: »

Who cares? McStay neither wants nor would be getting the job.

Probably not as even if he was offered the job now he would turn it down, but if Rochford goes there isn`t exactly an abundance of people around to take charge at that level.

km79

PressRun wrote: »

What about Mike Solan?

This is only if Rochford actually decides to leave. I'd rather he stayed tbh.

He would defo be in contention

Coillte_Bhoy

charlie14 wrote: »

As i said, I doubt McStay not getting the Mayo job had anything much to do with money.
Even if it did, I doubt Roscommon are particular flush with the re-development of Hyde Park.
When it comes to teams serious about winning an AI they look on the league as a blooding ground for new players to strengthen their squads for the championship and giving a break to players who have been on the road a long time.
I cannot see where Mayo did either this year.
Nobody, not even their own supporters, a wet week later cares who won or did well in the league.


With the Super 8 format this year Mayo should not have given a tinkers damn about the league imo.
Winning a Connacht championship wasn`t just one meaningful game this year, for Mayo it should have been the meaningful game to build their year around.

They put way too much into the league and were a spent force by the cship. And i totally agree with you re the league and the super 8's. And yes winning a Connacht Cship was much more important this year

PARlance

charlie14 wrote: »

If you want to compare like with like between him and Rochford he did win Connacht plus he has twice got Roscommon promoted to Div 1.

Is that really like for like? Rochford never had the chance to get promoted from Div 2. But then, Rochford never got relegated from Divison 1 either.

There were quite a few asking about McStay after he 'masterminded' a draw last year... not so many asking for him when his team got hammered by 22 points a few days later.

I would consider him a bit of a 'go out there and play' manager. I can't see any system or his mark on that team. He is probably a good players manager and he can certainly handle the media.

The Rossies have a lot of talented footballers, I don't think he has done anything special with them. Not many of us were worried about Connaughts as we were going into AI Finals with a fighting chance in 16 & 17. Rochford deserves credit for getting them to where it matters. McStay shot the load in the League in 16. No Comparison in my book.

charlie14

PARlance wrote: »

Is that really like for like? Rochford never had the chance to get promoted from Div 2. But then, Rochford never got relegated from Divison 1 either.

There were quite a few asking about McStay after he 'masterminded' a draw last year... not so many asking for him when his team got hammered by 22 points a few days later.

I would consider him a bit of a 'go out there and play' manager. I can't see any system or his mark on that team. He is probably a good players manager and he can certainly handle the media.

The Rossies have a lot of talented footballers, I don't think he has done anything special with them. Not many of us were worried about Connaughts as we were going into AI Finals with a fighting chance in 16 & 17. Rochford deserves credit for getting them to where it matters. McStay shot the load in the League in 16. No Comparison in my book.

The like for like was that McStay won a Connacht something Rochford didn`t achieve and put miles on the legs of lads through the back door that they could have done without. Especially this year.


It`s grand saying Rochford didn`t get relegated from Div 1 but what benefits has that brought to Mayo!
Fighting like dogs to avoid relegation during his time with the same players that were only racking up injury due to wear and tear where imo the emphasis should have been resting them up, blooding lads (if for nothing else) to strengthen the panel and especially this year gearing everything to the championship and to hell with Div 1 status.

seligehgit

PARlance wrote: »

Is that really like for like? Rochford never had the chance to get promoted from Div 2. But then, Rochford never got relegated from Divison 1 either.

There were quite a few asking about McStay after he 'masterminded' a draw last year... not so many asking for him when his team got hammered by 22 points a few days later.

I would consider him a bit of a 'go out there and play' manager. I can't see any system or his mark on that team. He is probably a good players manager and he can certainly handle the media.

The Rossies have a lot of talented footballers, I don't think he has done anything special with them. Not many of us were worried about Connaughts as we were going into AI Finals with a fighting chance in 16 & 17. Rochford deserves credit for getting them to where it matters. McStay shot the load in the League in 16. No Comparison in my book.

Ah Parlance I think you are being pretty harsh on Kevin McStay.

He has a decent group of footballers but without wishing to offend my Roscommon brethren they were not historically of the same quality as those available to Stephen Rochford.

We aren't comparing like with like. Roscommon has half the population of Mayo.

I have always firmly believed he'd have been a good appointment and had a great gra for his native county.

But he was treated very poorly in terms of the appointment process irrespective of the financial considerations and the perceived players issues with his brother in law.He was passed over twice if I'm not mistaken and without doubt I believe wouldn't take the job now.

Michael Solan would be a very exciting prospect IMO.

What is the story with Donie Buckley and Tony McEntee?

Zeek12

seligehgit wrote: »

Ah Parlance I think you are being pretty harsh on Kevin McStay.

He has a decent group of footballers but without wishing to offend my Roscommon brethren they were not historically of the same quality as those available to Stephen Rochford.

We aren't comparing like with like. Roscommon has half the population of Mayo.

I have always firmly believed he'd have been a good appointment and had a great gra for his native county.

But he was treated very poorly in terms of the appointment process irrespective of the financial considerations and the perceived players issues with his brother in law.He was passed over twice if I'm not mistaken and without doubt I believe wouldn't take the job now.

Can someone explain exactly what the players supposed issue is with McHale?
Do they simply think he's not up to it - or does it run deeper than that?

I can't see McStay as a viable option now, he could have been a good appointment 3/4 years ago, but that ship has sailed. He seemed to take the rejection last time quite personally.

Mind you if he really wanted the job back then, you'd think financial considerations could have been put to one side

muddle84

Zeek12 wrote: »

seligehgit wrote: »

Ah Parlance I think you are being pretty harsh on Kevin McStay.

He has a decent group of footballers but without wishing to offend my Roscommon brethren they were not historically of the same quality as those available to Stephen Rochford.

We aren't comparing like with like. Roscommon has half the population of Mayo.

I have always firmly believed he'd have been a good appointment and had a great gra for his native county.

But he was treated very poorly in terms of the appointment process irrespective of the financial considerations and the perceived players issues with his brother in law.He was passed over twice if I'm not mistaken and without doubt I believe wouldn't take the job now.

Can someone explain exactly what the players supposed issue is with McHale?
Do they simply think he's not up to it - or does it run deeper than that?

I can't see McStay as a viable option now, he could have been a good appointment 3/4 years ago, but that ship has sailed. He seemed to take the rejection last time quite personally.

Mind you if he really wanted the job back then, you'd think financial considerations could have been put to one side

In fairness, how could you not take it personally considering how the whole thig was handled by Mayo Gaa?

Zeek12

muddle84 wrote: »

In fairness, how could you not take it personally considering how the whole thig was handled by Mayo Gaa?

Not disputing that.

I'm just intrigued as to why the squad were allegedly completely against McHale?

TCDStudent1

Zeek12 wrote: »

Can someone explain exactly what the players supposed issue is with McHale?
Do they simply think he's not up to it - or does it run deeper than that?

I can't see McStay as a viable option now, he could have been a good appointment 3/4 years ago, but that ship has sailed. He seemed to take the rejection last time quite personally.

Mind you if he really wanted the job back then, you'd think financial considerations could have been put to one side

It probably goes deeper. The "House of Pain" book about Mayo football discusses Mayo GAA's sometime uneasy relationship with McHale and that was well before himself & McStay went for the Mayo job.

PARlance

seligehgit wrote: »

Ah Parlance I think you are being pretty harsh on Kevin McStay.

He has a decent group of footballers but without wishing to offend my Roscommon brethren they were not historically of the same quality as those available to Stephen Rochford.

We aren't comparing like with like. Roscommon has half the population of Mayo.

I have always firmly believed he'd have been a good appointment and had a great gra for his native county.

But he was treated very poorly in terms of the appointment process irrespective of the financial considerations and the perceived players issues with his brother in law.He was passed over twice if I'm not mistaken and without doubt I believe wouldn't take the job now.

Michael Solan would be a very exciting prospect IMO.

What is the story with Donie Buckley and Tony McEntee?

My reply was to a post that was trying to show the Rossies/McStay have outperformed Mayo/Rochford "like for like" in recent years which is laughable in my book.

And yes they do have some talented players, I didn't say that as a comparison to our squad but in terms of what they've achieved. They've won a Connacht, but they got it fairly soft and they've gotten promoted to Div 1... with that group of players, I don't think it's any special achievement. It is an achievement no doubt, but not one where I would look to the Manager for huge credit.

I'll stay away from the population point. We don't let that get in our way when chasing Dublin so I won't offer it up to the Rossies/McStay.

I'm really not sure that McStay would have added anything to "Horan's team"/tactics/style. I think Rochford did, despite having us doing a lot of head scratching at times.