Lions v New Zealand 3rd Test Match Thread

Ardillaun · 09-07-2017 3:07am

CatFromHue wrote: »

I dunno were the ball is in that pic

You can see it here but remember Read timed his run to coincide with Barret kicking the ball so he's running here.

So if he is offside, it's not by miles.

If he's slightly offside it still counts. This is where the TMO needs NFL-style lines and a bigger role in things.

flatty · 09-07-2017 7:57am

Basil3 wrote: »

laugh wrote: »

Do you have a clip?

His arm isn't just in his natural running position, he follows the ball and tries to catch it. It's an unfortunate mistake which should have been penalised, just like the one that the Lion's got at the end of the last test.

Is that ball actually forwards ? What's the rule?

sydthebeat · 09-07-2017 8:02am

flatty wrote: »

Is that ball actually forwards ? What's the rule?

Yes it does, it goes forwards in relation to Williams who played the ball.

On the reviewing I think a scrum is the right call

Boscoirl · 09-07-2017 8:02am

Sure Williams got a yellow card earlier in the tour for the same thing read did there ( williams did it twice)

09-07-2017 9:28am

Boscoirl wrote: »

Sure Williams got a yellow card earlier in the tour for the same thing read did there ( williams did it twice)

First Williams incident, he tackled the man in the air. Should have been a yellow, let off lightly.

Second incident, he took his eye off the ball, looked at the man and took him out. Clumsy, but he essentially gave up on competing for the ball.

Neither could realistically be compared to the Read incident.

.ak · 09-07-2017 9:29am

Ardillaun wrote: »

If he's slightly offside it still counts. This is where the TMO needs NFL-style lines and a bigger role in things.

He's behind the ball, so not offside.

.ak · 09-07-2017 9:31am

Hastentoadd wrote: »

Particularly when you have so many people who think they know better than the ref :-)

FYP

.ak · 09-07-2017 9:34am

irishman86 wrote: »

Id agree with this rather than a Wales/BOD thing. I feel hes not a good passer and a lot of the time kills a move, but put a 12 like Farrell inside him for all his flaws in the position and he looks a far better player. When he was with Teo, for me they were both average
I dont think it was the best player over there, that would be be SOB or Itoje

Agreed. I think he's just a brilliant rugby player, but he doesn't have the nuances at 13 you'd expect from an international centre. He butchered more chances than created them, but he's a serious athlete.

Burkie1203 · 09-07-2017 9:42am

Basil3 wrote: »

Neither could realistically be compared to the Read incident.

IMO It could have been a penalty either way. Read is never in a position to challenge for the ball because he cannot get to the ball legally on the line he ran unless he got above LW and he didnt do that

Also i see Riche McCaw was playing fly half yesterday too. Under his pen name Beauden Barrett. Explains the poor goal kicking anyway !!!!

https://twitter.com/RobbieCub7/status/883608304634691584

09-07-2017 10:05am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

IMO It could have been a penalty either way. Read is never in a position to challenge for the ball because he cannot get to the ball legally on the line he ran unless he got above LW and he didnt do that

Read running in doesn't know that Williams will be lifted. Read jumping with an arm up to tap back would generally get more height than Williams taking a catch without a lift.

The players don't consult each other before a kickoff at say the height they will be getting to when competing.

OldRio · 09-07-2017 11:41am

If Reads jump was a penalty. We might as well change the laws to allow only receiving teams catch the ball. He was competing, legally.
To compare what Read did and what Williams did is ludicrous.

irishman86 · 09-07-2017 11:42am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Apologies if already posted.

https://twitter.com/KeithClarke1/status/883697230426845189?s=09

The ball has already been kicked in this picture, Read had came at running speed, Id say more likely a great timed run or slightly offside not miles offside

Royal Legend · 09-07-2017 1:45pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

This flag has a whiff of D4 about it :eek:

"just popping down to the club house to watch the loins loike"

Ardillaun · 09-07-2017 4:48pm

.ak wrote: »

Ardillaun wrote: »

If he's slightly offside it still counts. This is where the TMO needs NFL-style lines and a bigger role in things.

He's behind the ball, so not offside.

Is there video of that?

09-07-2017 5:02pm

Ardillaun wrote: »

Is there video of that?

It's pointless looking at every kick-off for potential offsides. If you look at the previous kick-off that the Lion's do, the runner above Sexton has half his body ahead of the ball at kick-off, and then when it goes to the wide shot Farrell is a coupe of metres ahead of that runner already.

If it becomes a major issue, they could have clamp down on it, I guess.

Deusexmachina · 09-07-2017 7:06pm

Buer wrote: »

If we're ignoring the Sky Bullsh*t Bingo and actually ask will this Lions tour be talked about in 40 years then, yes, it will.

We'll bore our grandkids to tears about the amazing try by Sean O'Brien. We'll tell them about the kicking masterclass from Farrell from the tee and Murray's aerial attack. We'll harp on about the summer where Maro Itoje announced himself to the world.

We'll talk more about this tour in decades to come than the tour they actually won in 2013.

I really hope not. This 'immortality' nonsense is a very recent phenomenon. Yes, there has always been a dewey eyed sentimentality about the tours of old. But it has only become 'the stuff of legend' since Sky have marketed the hell out of it. Old windbags like Willie John being lauded ad nauseam. Tell us about the 99 call again Willie John (for the 100th time).
The Lions Tour is a great series but I hope some measure of balance can be maintained to couteract the hype machine. I remember the guys who refused to go on Lions tours to South Africa (including Tony Ward) because they could not stomach apartheid and wanted to help stop it by boycotting SA.
Sky has conveniently erased there real heroes from the picture - meanwhile smarmy Mc Geechan (who did not give one ****e about apartheid) and his ilk are constantly rolled out to reminise on the good old days for our entertainment.
A great series this year. Its still only rugby though.

Hastentoadd · 09-07-2017 7:53pm

flatty wrote: »

Is that ball actually forwards ? What's the rule?

Read is surely allowed to go for the ball. The ball is up there and open for competition. If Williams had the ball in his hands then clearly Read would be in the wrong for taking him out in the air. But the ball has not been secured before Read contests for it so surely thats a fair tackle. Rugby would wreck your head. The lines between an infringement and not an infringement is so fine you have folks who can argue both sides to the nth degree

Buer · 09-07-2017 7:57pm

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I really hope not. This 'immortality' nonsense is a very recent phenomenon. Yes, there has always been a dewey eyed sentimentality about the tours of old. But it has only become 'the stuff of legend' since Sky have marketed the hell out of it. Old windbags like Willie John being lauded ad nauseam. Tell us about the 99 call again Willie John (for the 100th time).
The Lions Tour is a great series but I hope some measure of balance can be maintained to couteract the hype machine. I remember the guys who refused to go on Lions tours to South Africa (including Tony Ward) because they could not stomach apartheid and wanted to help stop it by boycotting SA.
Sky has conveniently erased there real heroes from the picture - meanwhile smarmy Mc Geechan (who did not give one ****e about apartheid) and his ilk are constantly rolled out to reminise on the good old days for our entertainment.
A great series this year. Its still only rugby though.

You're going to be disappointed to find out who was called up as an injury replacement for the 1980 tour to South Africa and flew out by himself to join the tour....

Ardillaun · 09-07-2017 8:24pm

Basil3 wrote: »

It's pointless looking at every kick-off for potential offsides. If you look at the previous kick-off that the Lion's do, the runner above Sexton has half his body ahead of the ball at kick-off, and then when it goes to the wide shot Farrell is a coupe of metres ahead of that runner already.

If it becomes a major issue, they could have clamp down on it, I guess.

Then just give up the rule. Make rugby simpler. At the moment, the sport would become unwatchable if every infraction was detected.

irishbucsfan · 09-07-2017 8:38pm

Ardillaun wrote: »

Then just give up the rule. Make rugby simpler. At the moment, the sport would become unwatchable if every infraction was detected.

Just remove offside?

Deusexmachina · 09-07-2017 8:41pm

Buer wrote: »

You're going to be disappointed to find out who was called up as an injury replacement for the 1980 tour to South Africa and flew out by himself to join the tour....

Yes indeed. Nothing to be proud of there.

Former Former · 09-07-2017 8:46pm

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Yes indeed. Nothing to be proud of there.

So, who have Sky erased from the picture then?

Ardillaun · 09-07-2017 9:18pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Just remove offside?

No. Maybe change the rule in some way. Rugby is in a peculiar state in that more and more offences can be seen by the viewing public to go unpunished. Real rugby people seem to be not too bothered by this but I think it is a problem.

irishbucsfan · 09-07-2017 9:31pm

Ardillaun wrote: »

No. Maybe change the rule in some way. Rugby is in a peculiar state in that more and more offences can be seen by the viewing public to go unpunished. Real rugby people seem to be not too bothered by this but I think it is a problem.

What the viewing public think they see isn't always that relevant though.

Referees are heavily instructed on materiality, its a very important part of applying the laws. I'd much rather fans just get used to that rather than go changing the laws.

Ardillaun · 09-07-2017 11:29pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What the viewing public think they see isn't always that relevant though.

Referees are heavily instructed on materiality, its a very important part of applying the laws. I'd much rather fans just get used to that rather than go changing the laws.

With better camera work, we will see an ever rising number of infractions unpunished by the officials. The fans are going to have to get used to a lot more.

Hastentoadd · 09-07-2017 11:43pm

Ardillaun wrote: »

With better camera work, we will see an ever rising number of infractions unpunished by the officials. The fans are going to have to get used to a lot more.

Maybe the most frustrating for a fan is to see how the linesman/lineswoman provide very little value to the game. I get that is really difficult to make a call but if the linesman is in line to make a call surely they should make that call. They seem to make such calls from time to time but honestly the game is being let down by officiating when the rules are simply being ignored

Ardillaun · 09-07-2017 11:50pm

Materiality sounds like an ecumenical matter. I had to look it up and I'm still confused. What would be immaterial in a Lions game?

Deusexmachina · 09-07-2017 11:55pm

Former Former wrote: »

So, who have Sky erased from the picture then?

Some examples:
England's John Taylor who passed up a place on the 1974 Lions tour, Hugo MacNeill who didn't tour with Ireland in 1981, Stuart Barnes who refused to tour with England in 1984.

irishbucsfan · 09-07-2017 11:59pm

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Some examples:
England's John Taylor who passed up a place on the 1974 Lions tour, Hugo MacNeill who didn't tour with Ireland in 1981, Stuart Barnes who refused to tour with England in 1984.

Two of these examples are not Lions tours. And one of the examples of people that Sky have "erased" has been employed for them for years and commentated on every game on this tour.

irishbucsfan · 10-07-2017 12:02am

Ardillaun wrote: »

Materiality sounds like an ecumenical matter. I had to look it up and I'm still confused. What would be immaterial in a Lions game?

I'm not sure there's a huge amount of benefit to be gained from explaining what materiality means given you're already dismissing its importance before knowing what it is. But its explained here: http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU_Referee_Manual_2014.pdf

Lions v New Zealand 3rd Test Match Thread

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