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Lions v New Zealand 3rd Test Match Thread

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    #752
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    AdamD wrote: »
    Cannot avoid being touched? He caught the ball clear as day. Some mental gymnastics going on in here. Look, have you ever in your life seen that given as accidental? Just because it helped the team you support doesn't mean we have to justify it as correct. It would have been a horrible way to lose/win a game but it was still an incorrect decision.
    It's nothing to do with being one-eyed as you seem to be suggesting. Yes he caught it, but almost immediately dropped it. How often have you seen that happen? And yes, I've seen that kind of situation deemed accidental before.

    And it hit off him before he caught it instinctively. The initial contact was definitely unavoidable. There was also no advantage to his team. Enough there for a penalty to be pretty harsh.


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    #753
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Buer wrote: »
    Yes but quite rarely and I've never, ever seen it reversed like it was today particularly after agreeing with the TMO it's a penalty. It was a bizarre situation.
    Any time that I can remember a penalty being called is when the receiving player immediately plays the ball by either running with it or passing it or kicking it. Very seldom (can't remember any instance myself) does a player so quickly react and drop the ball.


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    #754
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Poite actually said 'we have a deal' rather than 'a decision', i.e. it was six of one half a dozen of the other on the penalties with a scrum as the fairest outcome. Seems like good parenting but the first time I've seen it in rugby.


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    #755
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,160 ✭✭✭Augme


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    Read clearly hit Williams into his back as he was gathering the ball in two hands.

    It's actually ridiculous to argue that NZ were hard done by.

    Lions should have been given the penalty out at least.

    Sick of people arguing that Read was competing, he wasn't in a position to catch the ball, and he actually hit the player that WAS catching the ball.

    Shocking miss by the refereeing team.


    Since when do you need to be in a position to catch the ball? He was centimetres away from touching it. If that's a penalty then every single competed restart would also be a penalty.


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    #756
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Yes

    Examples ??


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    #757
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Lions might rue not taking a shot at goal when Kaino was initially penalised. Never understand the thinking in those situations. Take the points on offer and then have the full 10 mins of YC time. Instead they wasted almost the entire period before they got another chance to score.


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    #758
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Rugby's continuity depends on many offences being missed or ignored. Again, lots of crooked put-ins and throw-ins etc. today.


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    #759
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Poite actually said 'we have a deal' rather than 'a decision', i.e. it was six of one half a dozen of the other on the penalties with a scrum as the fairest outcome. Seems like good parenting but the first time I've seen it in rugby.

    Did he say that? Wow.

    Could just be his English though. If he meant "accord" in French, that can translate as "agreement" which is grand, or "deal", not so much.


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    #760
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Former Former wrote: »
    Did he say that? Wow.

    Could just be his English though. If he meant "accord" in French, that can translate as "agreement" which is grand, or "deal", not so much.

    Definitely not grand, I demand the penalty stands. :D


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    #761
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    Hastentoadd wrote: »
    Have to agree with this. For a manager to pull a bunch of players together and make them a team that can compete with the best in the world is a fantastic achievement. Gatland will always have his critics but when credit is due credit is due. I will say that Gatland's Lions are not a terribly exciting team to watch but they do the fundamentals well. They are good at closing down a team, even a team like the ABs, and making it a dogfight. And getting back to my original point, you are trying to combine a number of teams into one. As such what choice do you have other than closing down a team like the ABs. To play expansive rugby would have been a disaster with players who don't usually play on the same team. It is a huge achievement by Gatland and kudos to him.

    Many in Ireland seem to have a problem with Gatland (is it a lingering childish response to him dropping BOD 4 years ago?). Gatland was a great Irish coach - we improved exponentially with him and he was then mysteriously shafted. He has a great record with Wales - with a fairly average squad over the years he has won 3 six nations with 2 grand slams. He has won one Lions series and drawn the other - in the toughest of circumstances.
    He is a great coach - one of the very best in the world. His record is remarkable.


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    #762
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Good for the Lions brand but the All Blacks should have won if Barrett's kicking wasn't so flaky, or Julian Savea's hands, or Poite's decision making...:D

    Would've could've


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    #763
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Who was debating with me recently here that Farrell is a good tackler? Come on, you know who you are.


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    #764
    Hippo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭Hippo


    Savea getting lots of criticism for dropping that pass, but in fairness it was so far forward that he did well to get his hands to it at all.

    The Lions certainly got out of jail with that last call, but equally there was plenty from NZ that went unpunished during the game. A fair result I think, and huge credit to both teams, the series was a compelling spectacle.


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    #765
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Yeah he's definitely a good shout for player of the series. Itoje as well which is impressive given he didn't start the first test.

    That offload from Davies probably gives him the edge!

    Itoje stood out for me - in a different class from the other forwards.


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    #766
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    The ritual of Running Through the Farrell occurred more times than I could count today.


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    #767
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Augme wrote: »
    Since when do you need to be in a position to catch the ball? He was centimetres away from touching it. If that's a penalty then every single competed restart would also be a penalty.

    If you can point out the use where you can hit a guy in the air without being in a position to touch the ball I'd be very impressed.


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    #768
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Augme wrote: »
    Since when do you need to be in a position to catch the ball? He was centimetres away from touching it. If that's a penalty then every single competed restart would also be a penalty.

    If you can point out the law where you can hit a guy in the air without being in a position to touch the ball I'd be very impressed.


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    #769
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Augme wrote: »
    Since when do you need to be in a position to catch the ball? He was centimetres away from touching it. If that's a penalty then every single competed restart would also be a penalty.

    If you can point out the law where you can hit a guy in the air without being in a position to touch the ball I'd be very impressed.


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    #770
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    If you can point out the law where you can hit a guy in the air without being in a position to touch the ball I'd be very impressed.

    He was in a position to touch the ball, but he didn't. I don't see why you're struggling to understand this. Have you not seen players tap the ball back from a kickoff before? Watch the match again, I'm sure you'll see it.


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    #771
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Nothing at all wrong with what Read did in the air. He was contesting the ball.

    The only non-knock-on-related-outcome there would maybe be the ball not going forwards but it really doesn't matter. There was actually quite a lot of interesting things that happened in the other 79 minutes of the match.


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    #772
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    Many in Ireland seem to have a problem with Gatland (is it a lingering childish response to him dropping BOD 4 years ago?). Gatland was a great Irish coach - we improved exponentially with him and he was then mysteriously shafted. He has a great record with Wales - with a fairly average squad over the years he has won 3 six nations with 2 grand slams. He has won one Lions series and drawn the other - in the toughest of circumstances.
    He is a great coach - one of the very best in the world. His record is remarkable.

    I think that's a press thing and really, who do they not have a problem with? Nobody in Ireland actually care that he dropped BoD, he was well past his prime at that stage. Yeah, Eddie shafted him when he was in charge, which is probably why Eddie is finding it hard to get work these days.
    I've a lot of respect for Gatland, he's a great manager.


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    #773
    Hastentoadd
    Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭Hastentoadd


    shootermacg wrote: »
    I think that's a press thing and really, who do they not have a problem with? Nobody in Ireland actually care that he dropped BoD, he was well past his prime at that stage. Yeah, Eddie shafted him when he was in charge, which is probably why Eddie is finding it hard to get work these days.
    I've a lot of respect for Gatland, he's a great manager.

    Eddie is a case onto himself. Nobody would touch him. Many provinces would post a jibe about Eddie for the fun. In reality everybody knows Eddie. If I were to put it diplomatically he is not a team player.


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    #774
    SlickRic
    Registered Users Posts: 36,083 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    The series isn't difficult to analyse.

    NZ clearly the better team. Missed chances. Sending off in the 2nd Test. Bad goalkicking.

    Lions were dogged. Took their try chances in the 2nd Test and rode their luck in the 3rd.

    Neither team can conplain, but it's an incredible achievement to throw players together, no matter how good they are individually, and draw with NZ.

    Itoje Man of the Series.


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    #775
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Basil3 wrote: »
    He was in a position to touch the ball, but he didn't. I don't see why you're struggling to understand this. Have you not seen players tap the ball back from a kickoff before? Watch the match again, I'm sure you'll see it.

    You have to have a reasonable chance of contesting the ball and that means touching the ball to be able to hit a guy in the air.
    If you charge into a player's back and wave an arm in the air as if you were in some way able to get anywhere near the ball that doesn't count.


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    #776
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    You have to have a reasonable chance of contesting the ball and that means touching the ball to be able to hit a guy in the air.
    If you charge into a player's back and wave an arm in the air as if you were in some way able to get anywhere near the ball that doesn't count.

    This just isn't right. The ball missed his hand by a matter of inches. He was clearly in a position to contest the ball.


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    #777
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Nothing at all wrong with what Read did in the air. He was contesting the ball.

    The only non-knock-on-related-outcome there would maybe be the ball not going forwards but it really doesn't matter. There was actually quite a lot of interesting things that happened in the other 79 minutes of the match.

    Interesting that you would call what he did contesting, I don't see that myself, just an attempt to hit a guy in the air to knock the ball loose after he lost the race to get under it.


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    #778
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    Interesting that you would call what he did contesting, I don't see that myself, just an attempt to hit a guy in the air to knock the ball loose after he lost the race to get under it.

    No way. He is looking at the ball all the way down and just missed being able to knock it back. I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that his intention was to win the ball there.


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    #779
    CurryFlavoured
    Registered Users Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭CurryFlavoured


    SlickRic wrote: »
    The series isn't difficult to analyse.

    NZ clearly the better team. Missed chances. Sending off in the 2nd Test. Bad goalkicking.

    Lions were dogged. Took their try chances in the 2nd Test and rode their luck in the 3rd.

    Neither team can conplain, but it's an incredible achievement to throw players together, no matter how good they are individually, and draw with NZ.

    Itoje Man of the Series.

    I agree with it all but I'd have Davies as the best of the series. SOB, Itoje and Faletau weren't far behind.


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    #780
    Sephiral
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭Sephiral


    With some time to consider, should Read's forearm connecting with William's head not be a penalty? Any contact to the head is pretty much a guaranteed penalty in general play, why not in an aerial situation?


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    #781
    BBDBB
    Registered Users Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    SlickRic wrote: »
    The series isn't difficult to analyse.

    NZ clearly the better team. Missed chances. Sending off in the 2nd Test. Bad goalkicking.

    Lions were dogged. Took their try chances in the 2nd Test and rode their luck in the 3rd.

    Neither team can conplain, but it's an incredible achievement to throw players together, no matter how good they are individually, and draw with NZ.

    Itoje Man of the Series.


    Just read a stat on the bbc that of the 240 minutes of test match rugby, the lions were only ahead for 3 of them. If even remotely near true that's pretty telling.


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