Home heating automation

Gumbo

Guys,

I have a hive in a few years now. Happy customer here.

Now my sister wants one in her house.

She has gas boiler for heating rads and water cylinder.

she has 2 thermostats, one at ground floor and one at first floor.

So I’m assuming this is a 3 zone system when you account for the water then too.

What hive kit does this?

would this work?

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/hive-mini-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat-hubless-white-grey/652pv

jiminho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383568#Comment_121383568

Thanks for all the help. Just to confirm, I’d need a wireless starter kit and an add on wired thermostat per below?

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-v3-black-edition-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-black/701kg

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-black-edition-wired-heating-smart-thermostat/186kg

denismc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387677#Comment_121387677

I had a few issues with one of the tado stats dropping the WiFi connection as it was in the opposite side of the house to the router.

I resolved the issue by placing a WiFi repeater in the middle of the house and plugging the internet bridge into that.

Buck250

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387457#Comment_121387457

Photos below Deezell - no idea why they're sideways. Any wiring guidance much appreciated. Thanks again.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388473#Comment_121388473

That kit plus this

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/hive-mini-wireless-heating-smart-thermostat-hubless-white-grey/681pv

First kit has a two zone receiver, controls one CH + HW, and it has the Internet hub.

Second Kit has a one zone receiver for the second CH connection. Both use the same hub in the first kit.

Really good value.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388888#Comment_121388888

Spot on.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388888#Comment_121388888

Yes, if you have a need for HW timing. if you're getting a combi boiler, that heats HW directly to the taps without a cylinder. In that case you wouldn't need the HW relay. You'd still need a two stats though, two wired (one part of a wired starter kit with internet bridge), or one wired and one wireless, which is the original advice with the HW zone relay on the wireless receiver.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389158#Comment_121389158

Thats perfect. Stats are two wire, no neutral, though there appears to be an earth wire, which is fine, it's unused in a Tado wired stat. The two brown wire simply go into the Com and NO ( normally open) terminals of the Tado stats when wired, both in option 1, and one stat in option 2 (upstairs CH2 ? ).

For option 2 using the wireless kit for one CH zone, either turn up the old stat full, or else remove it and joint the brown wires together, tape up, push into wall and cover over ( or mount the wireless stat over it if you're happy with the location. Wireless stat can be portable on a stand also.

When replacing the EPH in option 2, Live (1) and Neutral (2) go to Neutral and Live on the Tado extension kit receiver. HW (3), CH1(5) go to HW NO and CH NO on the ext. kit, and CH 2 (7) from the EPH goes directly to the Live on the Tado. Live on the Tado is also linked to the CH Com and the HW Com.

EPH

TADO EXT KIT

deezell

On a side note, when you buy the Tado wireless kit, I'm not certain if the wall stat supplied has no wired terminals, so you have to use it via the extension kit. In the past the stat always had wiring terminals even if supllied with the wireless starter kit, but I'm sure I recall reading somewhere that the stat now supplied in the wireless kit doesn't have wiring contacts. This makes sense for cost reasons if it's the case.

Hive and Drayton have no wiring terminals, they're wireless only, the less popular Netatmo smart Stat came in wired or wireless, with the wireless one stripped of wiring terminals.

Buck250

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389430#Comment_121389430

Thanks. That's very clear. I'm going to give option 2 a go during the week and let you know how I go.

cubix

Lads

I have inherited a heating system partly unfinished . I have bought some Tado smart TRVs and their Tado V3+ Wireless Heating & Hot Water Smart Thermostat Starter Kit on SF as recommended here by Deezell, much appreciated.

Going to replace non smart trvs on all rads with smart trvs so I can setup each room rad with necessary times/ days needed.

In the hotpress the CH has been fitted with 2x MV for upstairs/ downstairs zones and HW pipe to the cylinder has a MV but no cylinder stat fitted. All MV are the black & yellow EPH but none are wired up to a wiring centre. The house also has no wall room stats upstairs/ downstairs. Boiler is being controlled by a 1CH EPH 5+2 timer.

With all of the above in mind I presume the plan was to fit a new 3CH EPH controller, run multicore cable from the boiler/ EPH up to a wiring center in the HP. Install wall stats

As I plan to fit all rads with smart Trvs is there any benefit to completing the hardwire setup that was stated? Or better just to fit a cylinder stat controlled by necessary Tado kit.

Out of curiosity if I was going the finishing wired setup route where do people normally place their wall stats to make the most benefit.

Also what multi core cable do I need.

Thanks

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389805#Comment_121389805

Probably as you say, fit all smart trvs, fit a Tado wireless kit to give you a main wall stat without having to run cables. Clamp the CH MVs permanently open, or wire the Tado receiver CH ON to both CH MV brown wires to open them for any heat call. Wire the Tado HW ON to the HW MV brown, via a cylinder stat. Finally wire the HW MV relay Grey and one of the CH MV relay terminals Grey to live, and join both MV Orange to fire the boiler in an S-plan wiring

If you eliminate the CH MVs by clamping open or just removing and plumb up the gaps, you can just tie the Tado CH ON to the HW MV relay's Orange switched live out, and connect this to the boiler SL in. Either HW or any TRV call for heat via the Tado extension kit will fire the boiler.

Its good practice to supply the boiler permanent live, neutral and earth from the same breaker or from the wiring centre along with the SL to fire it. That way you power down everything, there's no danger of a live SL from a wiring centre going to the boiler when the boilers permanent live and neutral have been disconnected. Common cable used for this is 5 core brown/black/grey/blue/green-yellow. Grey core can carry the SL to fire the boiler, or Grey/Black can provide volt free contact closing from the MV relays, The other three provide the mains supply.

bittihuduga

need experts advice please..

i bought few Drayton smart TRVs.

installed couple of them fine.

one of them is giving hard time.

all rads are same. so im following same installation step.

it was hard to screw in the smart TRV to rad. not sure if the valve open close pin is contact with the TRV.

TRV is connected and showing temp but it is not opening the valve and the rad is not heating up.

if i put the old TRV it works fine. so its just me connecting the TRV to rad. any tips on installation please

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399307#Comment_121399307

Is it a particular radiator only? You may have a valve body with an odd thread pitch, m30× 1.0 instead of 1.5, or it might be damaged thread. What brand is the manusl TRV?

loyatemu

can you see the Smart TRV physically activating when it's off the valve?

Paulzx

Try calibrating the TRV. Remove it from the rad. Take the batteries out. Replace the batteries. Put it back on the rad and then twist the controller towards the negative holding it twisted for a few seconds.

Fishy1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360649#Comment_121360649

Hi again @deezell ,

Probably a stupid question, but here goes! Our current system has 3 zones; 2 for central heating & 1 for hot water. Would the Drayton system you suggested allow us to control the hot water settings , as well as the 2 heating zones?

I just want to make sure it’s the best option before we take the plunge! Thank you.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401169#Comment_121401169

Yes, if you already have a 3 zone timer for these zones, the Drayton wiser kit 3 is a very easy replacement, competent DIY level. What timer/controller do you have, do you have existing wall stats, can you heat each of the three separately.

Fishy1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401360#Comment_121401360

Thanks @deezell , yes we have wall stats upstairs & downstairs to monitor heating. There’s a separate stat for our hot water tank & then we have the controller in our utility room.

Attaching photo of the controller in our utility room in case that helps to clear up any confusion. I’m so sorry to sound so vague!

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401463#Comment_121401463

Drayton Kit3 receiver will drop in place of your controller, the wireless stats can be placed where you wish, or in place of the old stats if you remove them and link their live in and out wires, otherwise turn them up full to complete the circuit.

bittihuduga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399716#Comment_121399716

yes, when its taken out of rad, it shows the colors. connected to app

bittihuduga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399588#Comment_121399588

all rads look same to me. not sure of the brand sorry. couldn't find any name

Fishy1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402422#Comment_121402422

Thanks so much for your invaluable help, @deezell

Buck250

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389430#Comment_121389430

Gave it a go last night and it all working well. Had a slight issue with the hot water not showing in the app but got sorted by putting the wireless thermostat in install mode.

Really appreciate All the help. Was spot on.

Just a few other questions on TRVs.

Better to go for tado smart trvs over the basic model?

Price in currys at the moment is 220 for 4 smart TRVs. That as good as it gets?

Do I have to use tado or can I use another brand?

As I understand it each trv is linked up to a wall thermostat. If I have the walled stat in room 1 and the trv in room 2, will the trv call the boiler even if the temp in room 1 has been reached?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403538#Comment_121403538

1. Both versions of TRV do the same job, send temperature, receive a instructions to open and close the valve. They're both 'smart,', insofar as the heating algorithms are not running in the TRVs' hardware, but in the main stat, aided by server. So the difference is aesthetic and build, the original TRV is a premium product, the eco model, is, well, the economy version, no digital display, no alloy wheels. €219 for 4 is great price.

2. You can't instruct another brand to fire the boiler, they'd just act as manual temperature limiters, albeit you could program those limits from their own app. You'd need their own hub to access them, unless they were Bluetooth, or Wifi, (much higher battery consumption).

3. Apropos 2, the Tado stats fire the boiler via the zone thermostat to which they are assigned. If you have two Tado stats, say upstairs/downstairs, the bedroom TRVs are assigned to the upstairs stat, which will fire the boiler after it opens the upstairs zone valve. If the upstairs stat itself is off, say on the landing and temperature is satisfied, it will still close the relay for a TRV call. For sure any rads in the upstairs zone that don't have TRVs will heat for this call, but if the radiators in the same area as the stat (landing or master bedroom say) also have smart TRVs, they will remain closed. These colocated TRVs should additionally assign the main stat as the temperature measuring device, so there aren't two thermostats competing to control temperature in a single area.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402516#Comment_121402516

I mean the TRV valve, not the rad. Some trv valves have a different thread to the common M30 x 1.5, if that valve is an odd one the wiser TRV might not screw down, and an adapter may be required.

Buck250

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403823#Comment_121403823

Thanks again.

Final issue I'm having is that I can't assign the smart stat as a zone controller. It's not an option (see pic) Any ideas?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420691#Comment_121420691

Without looking back through the thread, is this a single stat and extension kit receiver installation? The ext kit is the controller, as the stat is just a sensor for it's relay. If you have an additional wired stat for another zone, this would show up as a zone controller.

Buck250

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121421230#Comment_121421230

Yes there's an additional wired stat for the upstairs zone but it's not showing up as a zone controller in the app i.e. it doesn't allow me to use it as a zone controller for any TRV.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121421320#Comment_121421320

Simplest way to sort this is have Tado support add it as a zone controller, send them a message and they'll configure it as that.