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Virgin Media - House move not possible - cancellation fee

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2

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    #32
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Maybe go back to them and ask them if their cancellation policy aligns with S.I. No. 27/1995 - European Communities (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) Regulations, 1995 and to explain how. It probably does but it might not be worth their while getting someone to explain this to you. And don't be fobbed off with a simple yes - ask for their interpretation.

    It worked for me a couple of times.


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    #33
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    davo10 wrote: »
    You are saying it is Virgin's fault that the op is moving away from the property where the provider is contracted to provide the service?

    Could you explain that? This I gotta read.

    No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it's not the fault of the customer that there's no service in areas they may move to. The difference might be a bit too subtle for you.


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    #34
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it's not the fault of the customer that there's no service in areas they may move to. The difference might be a bit too subtle for you.

    No subtlety required, just an understanding of the contract signed and a little bit of common sense on your part.

    The pertinent points in this thread are that the op agreed to a service at one property, but believes he/she should not be charged to cancel the agreement just because the service is not provided at a completely different location. That does not need to be subtle, it's factual. You said it's "often" the service providers fault, I fail to see how.


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    #35
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,165 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it's not the fault of the customer that there's no service in areas they may move to. The difference might be a bit too subtle for you.

    So should non ubiquitous providers just never use contracts then?


    Virgin paid the installation fees for the OP, in return he agreed to a term. Thats the deal. It wasnt hidden. If the broadband just randomly stopped working for a week I'm sure the OP would be raging against CS with "breach of contract" etc. Thats a two way street.


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    #36
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    And like I said, it's good PR and practise to wave or reduce the cancellation fee in such circumstances. Everyone has acknowledged the existence of the contract.


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    #37
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    And like I said, it's good PR and practise to wave or reduce the cancellation fee in such circumstances. Everyone has acknowledged the existence of the contract.
    In exceptional circumstances. Moving house is not an exceptional circumstance.

    As said early in the thread, it would be too abusable. How can Virgin verify the person is moving house and not just switching provider? They can't.


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    #38
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Proof of address like new bills etc, like you're authenticated now.


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    #39
    blagards
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭blagards


    ED E wrote: »
    So should non ubiquitous providers just never use contracts then?


    Virgin paid the installation fees for the OP, in return he agreed to a term. Thats the deal. It wasnt hidden. If the broadband just randomly stopped working for a week I'm sure the OP would be raging against CS with "breach of contract" etc. Thats a two way street.

    Virgin didn't pay any installation fees. The wall point was already installed, they simply sent out a box (which will be returned, and I would be happy to refund them their postage costs).

    I think the contract is very asymmetric, in that Virgin can simply decide to stop serving me (unlikely, but the contract allows this), and I amn't entitled to any cancellation fee from them (not that I should be), but if I leave the contract at my end, I have to pay a fee. This is a clear asymmetry in the contract, which is disadvantageous to the customer.


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    #40
    blagards
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭blagards


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Maybe go back to them and ask them if their cancellation policy aligns with S.I. No. 27/1995 - European Communities (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) Regulations, 1995 and to explain how. It probably does but it might not be worth their while getting someone to explain this to you. And don't be fobbed off with a simple yes - ask for their interpretation.

    It worked for me a couple of times.

    Thanks for this, it's worth a try anyway.


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    #41
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    And like I said, it's good PR and practise to wave or reduce the cancellation fee in such circumstances. Everyone has acknowledged the existence of the contract.

    In what such circumstances?

    The OP is moving house, not exactly an unusual or exceptional circumstance. Why should the provider just let her break contract without some form of payment?


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    #42
    blagards
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭blagards


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    In what such circumstances?

    The OP is moving house, not exactly an unusual or exceptional circumstance. Why should the provider just let her break contract without some form of payment?

    The unusual/exceptional circumstance arises because the service is not available at the new location.


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    #43
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    blagards wrote: »
    The unusual/exceptional circumstance arises because the service is not available at the new location.

    Then anyone could just say "I'm moving to the Aran Islands, let me out of my contract".

    How much is the cancellation fee?


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    #44
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    This is hysterical. The self entitlement in Ireland is astonishing.

    You signed up to a 12 month contract and now are moaning that you're not allowed leave for free before the end of it. You are severing the contract, not the other way around.

    You're lucky it's just the cancellation fee you have to pay, and not see out the remainder of the contract costs.


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    #45
    blagards
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭blagards


    Former Former wrote: »
    Then anyone could just say "I'm moving to the Aran Islands, let me out of my contract".

    How much is the cancellation fee?

    I understand that, and I think they should ask for proof of house move before they allow it. I don't think many people will actually move to the Aran Islands to get out of a broadband contract!


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    #46
    blagards
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭blagards


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    This is hysterical. The self entitlement in Ireland is astonishing.

    You signed up to a 12 month contract and now are moaning that you're not allowed leave for free before the end of it. You are severing the contract, not the other way around.

    You're lucky it's just the cancellation fee you have to pay, and not see out the remainder of the contract costs.

    Hysterical? Self entitlement? This is a one sided contract, which allows the company to break with no penalty (not that they have done this here - but it is allowed), but not the customer, even when there is mitigating circumstances (as here)


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    #47
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    blagards wrote: »
    Hysterical? Self entitlement? This is a one sided contract, which allows the company to break with no penalty (not that they have done this here - but it is allowed), but not the customer, even when there is mitigating circumstances (as here)

    Actually, you can leave the contact penalty free if this happens - as many have done multiple times when they introduce price increases.

    I actually agree that once a new valid proof of address can be produced, there should be some kind of concession on the providers part. The above though is not really a point to argue in your favour.


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    #48
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    blagards wrote: »
    The unusual/exceptional circumstance arises because the service is not available at the new location.

    That's not exceptional in the slightest - not every provider will be available in every area.


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    #49
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    blagards wrote: »
    Hysterical? Self entitlement? This is a one sided contract, which allows the company to break with no penalty (not that they have done this here - but it is allowed), but not the customer, even when there is mitigating circumstances (as here)

    Why did you sign the contract if you don't agree with the contents?


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    #50
    blagards
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭blagards


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Why did you sign the contract if you don't agree with the contents?

    Because like most people, I didn't read it. Not ideal but unfortunately it's what happens. Do you read every terms and conditions whenever you sign up for anything?


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    #51
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    blagards wrote: »
    Because like most people, I didn't read it. Not ideal but unfortunately it's what happens. Do you read every terms and conditions whenever you sign up for anything?

    If I'm signing a long term contract I do.

    You can't really complain can you if you didn't even read the damn thing you signed up to.


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    #52
    BlinkingLights
    Closed Accounts Posts: 910 ✭✭✭BlinkingLights


    Seems their contracts now specifically insist on charging you the minimum term regardless.

    "2.6 If you move house, we will try, but shall be under no obligation, to provide you with the Services at your new address if it is within our serviceable area. You will still be liable to pay the applicable Charges in relation to the Minimum Period (as de ned in paragraph 3) for the Services provided to your old address, even if you move from that address during the Minimum Period, or we do not provide you with the Services at your new address, or if your new address is outside our serviceable area. Where we are providing a Broadband Internet Service and you move to another address within our serviceable area,
    you must give us at least thirty (30) days’ notice if you wish us to provide such Service to your new address. Where we agree to provide the Services to your new address, you shall pay us the applicable transfer of service charge. Details of our transfer of service charge are set out in our Price List."

    As of 18 August 2016 anyway

    https://www.virginmedia.ie/pdf/terms/virgin-media-terms-aug16.pdf

    I guess, rule of thumb then is don't go with Virgin Media if you're likely to be moving during the minimum term.


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    #53
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,745 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    BlinkingLights wrote: »
    I guess, rule of thumb then is don't go with Virgin Media if you're likely to be moving during the minimum term.

    Or sign up for the month by month contract they offer for this very specific purpose. Doesn't give any introductory discounts, though.


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    #54
    BlinkingLights
    Closed Accounts Posts: 910 ✭✭✭BlinkingLights


    L1011 wrote: »
    Or sign up for the month by month contract they offer for this very specific purpose. Doesn't give any introductory discounts, though.

    Well if that exists, handy enough if you're not likely to be sticking around.


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    #55
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    In what such circumstances?

    The OP is moving house, not exactly an unusual or exceptional circumstance. Why should the provider just let her break contract without some form of payment?

    I never said anything about exceptional or unusual circumstances, but the circumstance in which they can no longer provide a service to the customer.

    I'm loving this new found love for all things Virgin Media though. All I'm saying is that it's not unreasonable for a bit of leeway of some sort, by any business, in which a service can no longer be provided to a customer.


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    #56
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    ThisRegard wrote:
    I'm loving this new found love for all things Virgin Media though. All I'm saying is that it's not unreasonable for a bit of leeway of some sort, by any business, in which a service can no longer be provided to a customer.


    There's no love. It's just common sense and the leeway is that you get out by paying a cancellation fee. This happens with most contract providers e.g. gas and electricity.

    Next the OP will be suggesting that someone sign up to a mobile provider to get the latest iPhone and turn around and say, actually in moving to OZ but you can't provide your service there so I'm not paying.


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    #57
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I never said anything about exceptional or unusual circumstances, but the circumstance in which they can no longer provide a service to the customer.

    But this isn't Virgin's fault. The OP has chosen to move to an area Virgin do not cover.

    Why is this so hard for people understand?


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    #58
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    blagards wrote: »
    Because like most people, I didn't read it. Not ideal but unfortunately it's what happens. Do you read every terms and conditions whenever you sign up for anything?

    I always read contracts for utilities, only a very foolish person doesn't.
    Reading them ensures you know what your rights are and also what happens in certain situations.

    In your case you didn't take 5min to read it and now when Virgin enforce their perfectly reasonable rights in the contract you complaint.

    Its a hard lesson for you, but next time actually take some time to read a contract before you agree. If you don't then you can only blame yourself when stuff "surprises" you.


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    #59
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    BlinkingLights wrote: »
    Seems their contracts now specifically insist on charging you the minimum term regardless.

    No, their T&C has always stated this, I remember it from at least ten years ago when it was still NTL.


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    #60
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I never said anything about exceptional or unusual circumstances, but the circumstance in which they can no longer provide a service to the customer.

    I'm loving this new found love for all things Virgin Media though. All I'm saying is that it's not unreasonable for a bit of leeway of some sort, by any business, in which a service can no longer be provided to a customer.

    They can provide the service.

    If you start giving "leeway", then you're open to all sorts of abuse.

    OK, so there are threads full of exactly how to get the maximum discounts from Virgin and Sky - threaten to cancel, don't accept the first offer, wait until the last minute, etc. You've seen them I presume?

    If they start giving people leeway on getting out of exisiting contracts, then that will appear on boards too, some guy will say "yeah, I got out of it by saying I was moving to Australia" and soon everyone will be doing it once their promotional discounts expire.

    It would be helpful if the OP told us how much the cancellation fee is. It used to be €200 but I've no idea any more.


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    #61
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I never said anything about exceptional or unusual circumstances, but the circumstance in which they can no longer provide a service to the customer.

    I'm loving this new found love for all things Virgin Media though. All I'm saying is that it's not unreasonable for a bit of leeway of some sort, by any business, in which a service can no longer be provided to a customer.

    Virgin would say that you can no longer receive their service, because of your change, not theirs.


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