Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

aloyisious

Igotadose wrote: »

Paywalls, bah. Any available links that aren't behind one?

The 1st story was the SP is investigating the finances of Jared Kushner and several other people on the Trump side, incl the usual names linked between his election and Russia, plus a fired Gen.

The 2nd was that Mr Hodgkinson weapons were legally purchased from a fire-arms dealer and the shooting was because he was angry with Don. The rifle was a 7.62 calibre, same cal as the FN, which is simply military standard. We, [that is the irish DF] replaced the FN with the lower cal Steyr A.U.G 5.56 cal years ago. I imagine the NRA lobbyists will keep their heads down for about a week around DC.

aloyisious

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Just follow the money trail. I cannot believe the Republicians continue to fully support such a person as POTUS and the danger he poses for world security, if nothing else? He resorts to Twitter when he gets criticism or just rants. He annoys everyone.

Same as Nixon, [deep throat to Woodward and Bernstein] just follow the money trail.

mcmoustache

This is old news by now but it got the twittersphere into a bit of a spin.

WASHINGTON – Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein today issued the following statement:

“Americans should exercise caution before accepting as true any stories attributed to anonymous ‘officials,’ particularly when they do not identify the country – let alone the branch or agency of government – with which the alleged sources supposedly are affiliated. Americans should be skeptical about anonymous allegations. The Department of Justice has a long-established policy to neither confirm nor deny such allegations.”

That came out at around 3 in to morning, Irish time, 10PM Eastern US time. I don't know how common it is to release such a thing at such a time. I'd have thought these were a working hours thing. I don't have a clue though.

The mention of country has people speculating that a foreign government agency has given some info to one of the major news orgs and that Trump is trying to get ahead of the story. Some are speculating about the peepee tapes. It's probably more mundane (by Trump standards anyway), though. He's probably aware of a breaking story and just got Rod to write something up.

Hande hoche!

aloyisious wrote: »

The 1st story was the SP is investigating the finances of Jared Kushner and several other people on the Trump side, incl the usual names linked between his election and Russia, plus a fired Gen.

The 2nd was that Mr Hodgkinson weapons were legally purchased from a fire-arms dealer and the shooting was because he was angry with Don. The rifle was a 7.62 calibre, same cal as the FN, which is simply military standard. We, [that is the irish DF] replaced the FN with the lower cal Steyr A.U.G 5.56 cal years ago. I imagine the NRA lobbyists will keep their heads down for about a week around DC.

As regards the second point, you're a bit off. It was a SKS, which is 7.62x39 rather than the FN's 7.62X51. It was military standard but Eastern bloc rather than Nato.

Going by the WP link.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/after-lawmaker-shooting-probe-seeks-clues-amid-trail-of-political-anger-left-by-attacker/2017/06/15/041ed736-51a9-11e7-b064-828ba60fbb98_story.html?utm_term=.d9a414544bf2

JRant

mcmoustache wrote: »

This is old news by now but it got the twittersphere into a bit of a spin.



That came out at around 3 in to morning, Irish time, 10PM Eastern US time. I don't know how common it is to release such a thing at such a time. I'd have thought these were a working hours thing. I don't have a clue though.

The mention of country has people speculating that a foreign government agency has given some info to one of the major news orgs and that Trump is trying to get ahead of the story. Some are speculating about the peepee tapes. It's probably more mundane (by Trump standards anyway), though. He's probably aware of a breaking story and just got Rod to write something up.

I would say it is more of a general comment than any specific story. Democracy is under real attack with all these "official" stories being leaked.

Take the leaking of Flynn's conversations, we still have no idea if there was a warrant to listen to his conversations and if not who/why was his name and details leaked by. This by itself is an extremely serious matter as if it is proved that the NSA or one of the other agencies was listening to private citizens conversations without a warrant and then leaking them for political reasons then it is a constitutional crisis that easily outweighs the Trump obstruction charge.

Billy86

Trump's disapproval rating has jumped again, now on 64%. The only presidents with higher disapproval ratings have been Nixon (66%), Truman (67%) and Bush Jnr (71%). All three were out of office within about 6 months or those ratings, the latter two due to tenure where their parties suffered crippling defeats in the next election cycle while Nixon of course stepped down before getting impeached. That said, if it comes to it for him, I would put the house on Trump not stepping down under any circumstance and if imprisoned, claiming to still be the real POTUS while behind bars. Nixon whatever you want to say about him was always very savvy and pragmatic, Trump... not so much.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/338092-trump-disapproval-hits-64-percent-in-ap-poll

rossie1977

There are people on twitter talking civil war if anyone tries to unseat trump. Not sure how serious they are but trump and his supporters are not going down quietly like nixon did we know that for sure

Leroy42

Billy86 wrote: »

Trump's disapproval rating has jumped again, now on 64%. The only presidents with higher disapproval ratings have been Nixon (66%), Truman (67%) and Bush Jnr (71%). All three were out of office within about 6 months or those ratings, the latter two due to tenure where their parties suffered crippling defeats in the next election cycle while Nixon of course stepped down before getting impeached. That said, if it comes to it for him, I would put the house on Trump not stepping down under any circumstance and if imprisoned, claiming to still be the real POTUS while behind bars. Nixon whatever you want to say about him was always very savvy and pragmatic, Trump... not so much.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/338092-trump-disapproval-hits-64-percent-in-ap-poll

I agree, I don't see Trump stepping down no matter what.

Being POTUS means he can't be prosecuted (AFAIK) so the only way is impeachment. For that to happen the GOP needs to be involved and they have shown no appetite for that.

Given that, at best, Trump is a recent convert to GOP, he will not really care about any long terms effects on the GOP. He will only be focused on himself. And however bad it might seem being POTUS, one only has to look at Nikon to see the long lasting effect it would have on him, and since he has involved his family, them by extension.

Far better to try to brazen it out.

I also don't see the core voters turning on him, no matter what, if anything the deeper he gets in the more rabbid his claims will be and the more they will be convinced it is a witchhunt.

PopePalpatine

rossie1977 wrote: »

There are people on twitter talking civil war if anyone tries to unseat trump. Not sure how serious they are but trump and his supporters are not going down quietly like nixon did we know that for sure

I wouldn't it put it past them if they're willing to stab two people to death for raising an objection to them spewing bile.

Leroy42

rossie1977 wrote: »

There are people on twitter talking civil war if anyone tries to unseat trump. Not sure how serious they are but trump and his supporters are not going down quietly like nixon did we know that for sure

I certainly think we are seeing the end of the US. Maybe it is only the beginning of the end but certainly a move towards the end.

The US is becoming more deeply divided with every passing year. The gap between one side and the other gets wider and point scoring and protecting your team seems to be the goal rather than advancing the US.

Already US control over other parts of the world is diminished and will continue to fall off. The question is what will replace it, if anything.

Trumps move towards isolation and America First will only speed up the process across the rest of the world to move on without the US and the apparent continued fall in education will mean that US industry will start to fall behind.

Green energy is possibly the greatest example of that at the present time. But in areas such as space exploration (or better phrased orbital exploration) the US is starting to lose it dominance with the likes of China and the EU making great strides in the recent years together with the US moving away from investment.

Uk is facing into the same dilema. If the country doesn't even agree with itself how is it supposed to get others to agree with its position

mcmoustache

Trump's tweets today...

After 7 months of investigations & committee hearings about my "collusion with the Russians," nobody has been able to show any proof. Sad!

The Fake News Media hates when I use what has turned out to be my very powerful Social Media - over 100 million people! I can go around them

Despite the phony Witch Hunt going on in America, the economic & jobs numbers are great. Regulations way down, jobs and enthusiasm way up!

I am being investigated for firing the FBI Director by the man who told me to fire the FBI Director! Witch Hunt

He's having quite the meltdown today. I wonder what might be in the news at between 9:30 and 10:30 this evening?

As an aside, I'm so glad that he tweets and doesn't listen to advisers. If this guy had the ability to take advice and shut up, he'd be dangerous.

alchemist33

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Just follow the money trail. I cannot believe the Republicians continue to fully support such a person as POTUS and the danger he poses for world security, if nothing else? He resorts to Twitter when he gets criticism or just rants. He annoys everyone.

Ironically, given the people who use the term most, he should be the poster boy for "Generation Snowflake"

Billy86

What's also sad is that he's claiming to have 100mn followers on social media when it clearly states 32.4mn on the screen, and the half of those are bots.

alchemist33

Billy86 wrote: »

What's also sad is that he's claiming to have 100mn followers on social media when it clearly states 32.4mn on the screen, and the half of those are bots.

Maybe he's adding up Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat etc followers under the assumption they're all different people bots

Billy86

alchemist33 wrote: »

Maybe he's adding up Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat etc followers under the assumption they're all different people bots

Even if you did assume that every single one is a different person despite the platform, ignored the fact that about half are bots, and included the 'POTUS/White House' accounts, it's still lower than 100mn - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/06/06/no-donald-trump-doesnt-have-110-million-people-following-him-on-social-media/?utm_term=.e9f7207a980a

Still, we all know if it's easier to tell the truth Trump will still lie - which is what's likely going to end up getting him impeached.

InTheTrees

Billy86 wrote: »

Still, we all know if it's easier to tell the truth Trump will still lie - which is what's likely going to end up getting him impeached.

Astounding isn't it? Six months in and everyone now knows that most of what the president of the USA says is a flagrant lie.

It's beyond even "crying wolf", he lies for no reason, just because he's too lazy to even think about what he's saying.

Leroy42

It always surprising me that Trump has such disdain for MSM, says he has massive following on social media and yet complains that the MSM are leading a witchhunt and he can't get the truth out.

With access to 100m people, far more than any single media centre, surely he should be leading the narrative.

He is the first POTUS, certainly the 1st to use it in such a direct way, to use social media as a way around the more traditional media and yet he is suffering for exactly the same issues that past POTUS have in terms of loss of confidence etc.

It would almost make you think that there is a difference between the number of followers that you have and the number of people that actually agree with you

mcmoustache

InTheTrees wrote: »

Astounding isn't it? Six months in and everyone now knows that most of what the president of the USA says is a flagrant lie.

It's beyond even "crying wolf", he lies for no reason, just because he's too lazy to even think about what he's saying.

It's a joke at this point as we saw with Turnbull. The worst thing is that this side of Trump wasn't hidden from the public or anything. The guy was such a well known liar that his lawyers had to meet him in pairs.

He's an international embarrassment.

B0jangles

InTheTrees wrote: »

Astounding isn't it? Six months in and everyone now knows that most of what the president of the USA says is a flagrant lie.

It's beyond even "crying wolf", he lies for no reason, just because he's too lazy to even think about what he's saying.

I've been thinking about this for a while and it seems to me that Trump genuinely has only the feeblest grip on reality - over and over he says things that are obviously, ridiculously untrue and the common factor is that whatever he claims to be the truth is simply what he wants to be true - 'I have 100 million followers', 'biggest inauguration in history', 'I invented the phrase 'prime the pump' etc etc etc.

Long before he was anywhere near the presidency he said his net worth was whatever he felt it to be on the day in question, (the following was said in a legal deposition, not casual conversation fyi):

'Trump: My net worth fluctuates, and it goes up and down with the markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings, but I try.
Ceresney: Let me just understand that a little. You said your net worth goes up and down based upon your own feelings?
Trump: Yes, even my own feelings, as to where the world is, where the world is going, and that can change rapidly from day to day ...
Ceresney: When you publicly state a net worth number, what do you base that number on?
Trump: I would say it's my general attitude at the time that the question may be asked. And as I say, it varies.'

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/21/news/companies/donald_trump/index.htm

Simply calling him a liar is, I think, misleading. A liar knows when they are lying - I really don't think Trump can really tell fantasy from reality anymore.

Christy42

B0jangles wrote: »

I've been thinking about this for a while and it seems to me that Trump genuinely has only the feeblest grip on reality - over and over he says things that are obviously, ridiculously untrue and the common factor is that whatever he claims to be the truth is simply what he wants to be true - 'I have 100 million followers', 'biggest inauguration in history', 'I invented the phrase 'prime the pump' etc etc etc.

Long before he was anywhere near the presidency he said his net worth was whatever he felt it to be on the day in question, (the following was said in a legal deposition, not casual conversation fyi):


http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/21/news/companies/donald_trump/index.htm

Simply calling him a liar is, I think, misleading. A liar knows when they are lying - I really don't think Trump can really tell fantasy from reality anymore.

I am always reminded of John Oliver when someone calls Trump a liar.

Trump is not lying, he simply cares about the truth as much as a duck cares about the next nominee for the supreme Court.

It describes him perfectly. I also can't understand how people can complain about the MSM so much while he is in power. It is like complaining about a paper cut when you have a broken leg. If you want people to stop putting misinformation into the public domain then Trump is the best place to start.

aloyisious

mcmoustache wrote: »

Trump's tweets today...

[I am being investigated for firing the FBI Director by the man who told me to fire the FBI Director! Witch Hunt]

He's having quite the meltdown today. I wonder what might be in the news at between 9:30 and 10:30 this evening?

As an aside, I'm so glad that he tweets and doesn't listen to advisers. If this guy had the ability to take advice and shut up, he'd be dangerous.

Humourously wonders if Rod Rosenstein was making an oblique reference to official releases as well, given the time of day his statement was released; I did not tell the President to fire the FBI Director!

aloyisious

The US Entertainment Industry job levels got a boost when Don took up office, so he has increased the economy and jobs...

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj2y62N0sLUAhVML8AKHRS2DL4QqUMIKzAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2F2017%2F06%2Fwatch-conan-obrien-spots-a-hilarious-nervous-tic-that-shows-when-jeff-sessions-is-lying%2F&usg=AFQjCNGR8ghhelpmeps3CcnxjaFNHVQa_g

Plus there's Alec......

oscarBravo

B0jangles wrote: »

Simply calling him a liar is, I think, misleading. A liar knows when they are lying - I really don't think Trump can really tell fantasy from reality anymore.

This. I keep coming back to the same point: the man isn't sane. I'm fairly certain he genuinely believes that he had the largest inauguration crowd, etc.

It raises an interesting question about perjury: if when he lies under oath, it may not even be perjury in the truest sense, because he'll be saying what he believes to be true, even if it contradicts something else he said minutes before, which he also believed to be true.

In no way is he psychologically fit for the office he holds.

Leroy42

oscarBravo wrote: »

This. I keep coming back to the same point: the man isn't sane. I'm fairly certain he genuinely believes that he had the largest inauguration crowd, etc.

It raises an interesting question about perjury: if when he lies under oath, it may not even be perjury in the truest sense, because he'll be saying what he believes to be true, even if it contradicts something else he said minutes before, which he also believed to be true.

In no way is he psychologically fit for the office he holds.

But to go with that theory, one must also assume that all his "truths" just happen to be in his favour.

I think he is just used to making things up to suit himself and has rarely, certainly not publicly, been called out on them before.

Didn't he say in his book (I haven't read it) that you need to say whatever to get the deal done, worry about delivering afterwards.

In the case of POTUS, what he says actually is taken to mean something and people don't simply forget on move on. And he can't simply move onto to a new deal. So drop out of US POTUS and run for UK for example.

oscarBravo

Leroy42 wrote: »

But to go with that theory, one must also assume that all his "truths" just happen to be in his favour.

Of course! As well as being a sociopath and a pathological liar, he's also a narcissist.

If you've been lucky enough never to have shared any part of your life with a narcissist, it's hard to comprehend what's going on here. But if you haven't been that lucky, everything Trump says and does is following an all-too-familiar pattern.

So, again: I think he believes the things he says, because he's the all-important centre of his own personal universe, and he's psychologically incapable of believing anything negative about himself.

PropJoe10

InTheTrees wrote: »

Astounding isn't it? Six months in and everyone now knows that most of what the president of the USA says is a flagrant lie.

It's beyond even "crying wolf", he lies for no reason, just because he's too lazy to even think about what he's saying.

It looks to me as if he doesn't even know what the difference is between the truth and a lie. It seems to me that the only thing important to him is whatever is on his mind at any particular time. Whether that happens to be fact or bull**** really makes no difference whatsoever.

Overheal

unusual exchange recorded with Sen McCain



https://trofire.com/2017/06/16/bizarre-exchange-mccain-refuses-talk-contents-ahca/

So just further adds to the cluster****ery of the AHCA debacle. Some speculate that the GOP will indeed slip the bill through the Senate in the most slippery manner they can under congressional rules: https://thinkprogress.org/republicans-wont-make-health-care-bill-public-ad0c5dafc89c meaning the bill, in whatever form, won't likely be introduced to the Senate until the GOP has the 51 votes they need within their own party. That would leave only 20 hours of debate on the senate floor, and as little as a day or two for the public to absorb and react to the contents of the bill, before it gets a vote.

But clearly it seems to me that if this is the state of things, they should just move along and introduce the conversation to the Senate floor and allow for a full debate on the matter, as it doesn't seem they are likely to pass something that will get the 51 internal votes they need; thus they will probably have to appeal to democrats to cross the aisle.

Recall that earlier this year they kept the house version of the bill under lock and key and only let people look at the bill in a lone room on the hill. The lack of transparency is truly astounding, we aren't talking about signing off on some agency's black budget or something, this is health care law for American citizens for crying out loud.

The only way to stop the bill at that point would of course be a veto, which is only going to happen IF (a big if) there is universal outcry about it, including from Trump's "loyalists."

oscarBravo

Andrew Sullivan seems to agree with me:

...this crisis is more dangerous because the president has not only been trying to prevent or rig any such investigation for months — demanding personal loyalty from the FBI director, pressuring national intelligence officials to exonerate him before the inquiry is finished — but also continues to boast about this obstruction of justice as if there were nothing wrong with it at all.

Which brings us to Trump’s mental illness, by which I mean simply that he would not pass a clinical psych test for any other job in the country.

Overheal

I think most Americans would happily get on board with a Pence presidency at the moment.

oscarBravo

Overheal wrote: »

I think most Americans would happily get on board with a Pence presidency at the moment.

It would be both better, and worse.

Better, in the sense that at least you wouldn't have an insane person destabilising everything he touches, at home and abroad (cf Qatar).

Worse, in the sense that Pence is despicable and relatively competent, which means his god-awful right-wing agenda stands a better chance of succeeding, because he wouldn't be stepping on his own dick every time he tried to get anything done.

Overheal

Rod Rosenstein now says he may also have to recuse himself, due to his involvement in the firing of FBI Director James Comey

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/deputy-attorney-general-privately-acknowledges-recuse-russia-probe/story?id=48080253

The 'Russia Cloud' just keeps growing.

circadian

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833


The meltdown is happening. It looks like Mueller has hired some seriously talented staff including several money laundering specialists. This will be a long haul investigation and I can only imagine Trumps tweets and behaviour to become more erratic unless someone can stop him from himself.

Inquitus

The delusion is strong today, spare a thought for Rosenstein who appears to be destined to go under a bus shortly!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875732813278048256

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875698062030778368

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875690204564258816

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875682853585129472

mcmoustache

Overheal wrote: »

Rod Rosenstein now says he may also have to recuse himself, due to his involvement in the firing of FBI Director James Comey

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/deputy-attorney-general-privately-acknowledges-recuse-russia-probe/story?id=48080253

The 'Russia Cloud' just keeps growing.

I don't think Mueller is going anywhere though.

Besides all that, I'm looking forward to you guys arguing about abortion and trickle down economics again. Right now, US politics is basically an argument between those who think Trump is completely unfit and those making excuses for him. It's ridiculous.

mcmoustache

Inquitus wrote: »

The delusion is strong today, spare a thought for Rosenstein who appears to be destined to go under a bus shortly!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875732813278048256

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875698062030778368

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875690204564258816

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875682853585129472

The unhingedness of Trump's twitter outbursts correlate quite strongly with the gravity of the day's upcoming news from WaPo and NYT; which usually arrives at around 22.00 Irish time.

BabyCheeses

Great news is 50%?

circadian

Trump's personal lawyer hires an attorney

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/338139-trumps-personal-lawyer-hires-attorney-report

Water John

Trump and his acolytes now know, that this Mueller investigation is serious and won't stop. But Trump's instinct is to fight back and so they are already attacking Mueller and his new team. They just don't understand, that it's totally ineffective.
It may not be Trump himself initially, but Flynn, Manaforte, Sessions, Kushner, Cohen, are in the line of fire.
I suspect Bannon is p***ing himself laughing.

Professor Moriarty

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Great news is 50%?

That's a Rasmussen poll which is always an outlier. Every other recent poll puts his approval rating in the thirties including yesterday's Associated Press poll which has him at 35%.

Hande hoche!

Water John wrote: »

Trump and his acolytes now know, that this Mueller investigation is serious and won't stop. But Trump's instinct is to fight back and so they are already attacking Mueller and his new team. They just don't understand, that it's totally ineffective.
It may not be Trump himself initially, but Flynn, Manaforte, Sessions, Kushner, Cohen, are in the line of fire.
I suspect Bannon is p***ing himself laughing.

Yeah, one of the theories is that Bannon is behind some of the leaks. Imagine he is the one having the most fun in the White House.

Water John

Chaos and strife are key elements of Bannon's beliefs. but he is a side show to the main issues, at this point.

Stheno

Inquitus wrote: »

The delusion is strong today, spare a thought for Rosenstein who appears to be destined to go under a bus shortly!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875732813278048256

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875698062030778368

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875690204564258816

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875682853585129472

Has he lost all semblance if sanity?

aloyisious

He's reversed some of the Obama treaties the US has with Cuba, saying they're completely one sided. The tourist and business trade with Cuban Govt - banned. No cultural deals on a one-to-one person basis, as exist between family now. He say's he's fulfilling his election promises. He won Florida by 1.2 percent.

Igotadose

aloyisious wrote: »

He's reversed some of the Obama treaties the US has with Cuba, saying they're completely one sided. The tourist and business trade with Cuban Govt - banned. No cultural deals on a one-to-one person basis, as exist between family now. He say's he's fulfilling his election promises. He won Florida by 1.2 percent.

Including one that, now removed will make it impossible for Marriott to build a hotel....

ECO_Mental

circadian wrote: »

Trump's personal lawyer hires an attorney

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/338139-trumps-personal-lawyer-hires-attorney-report

things must me bad if your lawyer is "lawyering up".... brilliant

PopePalpatine

That reminds me Igotadose, what industries is the Trump Organisation involved in again?

Igotadose

PopePalpatine wrote: »

That reminds me Igotadose, what industries is the Trump Organisation involved in again?

The President can't have conflicts of interest. Trump says so ergo it must be true....

mcmoustache

Igotadose wrote: »

The President can't have conflicts of interest. Trump says so ergo it must be true....

The solution is obvious. Raul should just ask him to build a hotel in Havana. Sanctions lifted.

BabyCheeses

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's a Rasmussen poll which is always an outlier. Every other recent poll puts his approval rating in the thirties including yesterday's Associated Press poll which has him at 35%.

Sure but if your outlier is saying 50% I wouldnt brag about it.

Professor Moriarty

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Sure but if your outlier is saying 50% I wouldnt brag about it.

When it's all you've got...