Requirement for an Irish Citizen to present a passport

lifeandtimes

Fred Swanson wrote: »

What I have a problem with is being delayed unnecessarily because the DAA/INIS/GNIB cannot sort out CTA arrivals in Dublin.

The question was asked in another thread, if a person from a CTA flight didn't want to be delayed and simply skipped the queue and walked out, would any detention be lawful given there is nothing in the law that requires him to show any ID?

It would be as they have powers under
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/1/section/3/enacted/en/html
"
An immigration officer or a medical inspector appointed under this Act shall have power to enter or board any vessel, and to detain and examine any person arriving at or leaving any port in the State who is reasonably believed by the officer or inspector to be a non-national, and to require the production of a passport or other equivalent identity document by such person, and shall have such other powers and duties as are conferred upon him or her by this Act."

To ask for indentification and especially someone skipping a queue and causing a scene would be asked. Granted you wouldn't be a non national but doing something lile skipping the queue which no body does would give them "a reasonable doubt" to detain you

GM228

I'll attempt to put this to bed for you Fred.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

What is the actual legal basis for an immigration officer to demand a passport from an Irish Citizen and in particular one arriving from the CTA.

People are saying that Section 11 of the Immigration Act 2004 applies but if you read it fully there is no requirement to show a passport if coming from the CTA.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/1/section/11/enacted/en/html

11.—(1) Every person (other than a person under the age of 16 years) landing in the State shall be in possession of a valid passport or other equivalent document, issued by or on behalf of an authority recognised by the Government, which establishes his or her identity and nationality to the satisfaction of an immigration officer.


(2) Every person landing in or embarking from the State shall furnish to an immigration officer such information in such manner as the immigration officer may reasonably require for the purposes of the performance of his or her functions.

(3) A person who contravenes this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) This section does not apply to any person (other than a non-national) coming from or embarking for a place in the State, Great Britain or Northern Ireland.

So can anyone give a legal basis why such a demand is lawful?

To answer your question you need to look at other parts of the Immigration Act 2004 (as amended) as well as a few other pieces of legislation, which can be contradictory to S11.


As lifeandtimes has pointed out there is S3 (3) of the 2004 Act which gives a general power to demand a passport or other document from any person believed to be a non-national:-

3 (3) An immigration officer or a medical inspector appointed under this Act shall have power to enter or board any vessel, and to detain and examine any person arriving at or leaving any port in the State who is reasonably believed by the officer or inspector to be a non-national, and to require the production of a passport or other equivalent identity document by such person, and shall have such other powers and duties as are conferred upon him or her by this Act.

The key to S3 (3) is there must be a reasonable belief that someone is a non-national, but what is considered a reasonable belief?

At this point I'll note that a non-national for the purposes of S3 is someone who is not a citizen of the Irish Free State, so the fact that a plane is coming from the UK does raise a very reasonable belief that people on board could well be non-nationals, indeed it's highly likely several arriving are UK and other EU nationals.

Apart from that lets look at S11 itself. The "this section" and "other than a non-national" are the key elements of S11 (4).

Section 11 is in relation to being in posession and subsequently furnishing a valid passport or other document when requested. It simply exempts an Irish citizen from carrying such and presenting such. It specifically does not exempt a non-national.

S11 (4) creates a defence for failing to comply with S11 (2) or S3 (3), but does in no way remove any power for them to make the request in the first place.

The exemption applies only to "this section", meaning an Irish citizen is only exempt from the requirements of S11, it does not exempt them from the powers to ask for a document afforded by S3 (3) used in order to establish if they are a citizen in the first place.

The reality is that S3 (3) and S11 contradict each other. But to add further contradiction is the fact that "non-national" for the purposes of S11 has a different meaning to that of S3.

For S11 a non-national is someone who isn't an "Irish Citizen" (as opposed to a citizen of the Irish Free State), or someone who has established a right to be present under under the European Communities (Aliens) Regulations 1977, the European Communities (Right of Residence for Non-Economically Active Persons) Regulations 1997 or the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006 and 2008.

But the odd thing about those regulations which are in accordance with EU law is that any EU/EEA citizen must present a passport in any EU state in order to land and to claim their right to be present, so it defaults back to S3 (3) allowing them to ask for a passport to establish if an Irish citizen or S11 using the various regulations to establish if an EU citizen who are establing their right to be present in Ireland under free movement rules.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

if a person from a CTA flight didn't want to be delayed and simply skipped the queue and walked out, would any detention be lawful given there is nothing in the law that requires him to show any ID?

In light of S3 assuming there is a reasonable belief that the person is a non-national then yes. There simply needs to be a belief they may be a non-national, it does not need to be a correct belief.




Bottom line - the act and related legislation is contradictory and creates ambiguity.



Side bar question, what are the legal implications of S3 in that it is specific to a "citizen of the Irish Free State" as opposed to an "Irish citizen".

They are not quite the same and then there would be issues as to weather someone born in NI (depending on the year) would be considered Irish citizens for the purposes of S11.

Peregrinus

GM228 wrote: »

In light of S3 assuming there is a reasonable belief that the person is a non-national then yes. There simply needs to be a belief they may be a non-national, it does not need to be a correct belief.

But there's a big difference between a reasonable belief that a person is a non-national, and a reasonable belief that they may be a non-national, and s. 53 requires the former, not the latter.

I don't think that the mere fact that someone is attempting to enter Ireland from the UK (or any other country) is enough in itself to create a reasonable belief that they are a non-national; this is something nationals commonly do.

Besides, if that were a legitimate interpretation, then the immigration would have power to ask everyone arriving in the state to produce a passport, and if that were the legislative intention wouldn't the Oireachtas simply have said so? This interpretation effectively deprives the words "who is reasonably believed by the officer or inspector to be a non-national" of any signficance at all, and it's a canon of interpretation that all the words in a statute are there to achieve something.

Carawaystick

This craic was going on when I used to fly to Dublin from Cork. Ground my gears then. taking almost as long to get from my plane to outside the airport as from Cork to Dublin