2017 Local authority SEO competition

ECO_Mental

Got placed 392 in the SEE comp but they said that they will be calling for interview based on the order of merit. The way I read it is the order of merit is the tests! They haven't looked at the CV's (application docs) yet. Am I right, so basically it doesn't matter what you do in your job it's down to the 12 mins in the test......or am i wrong

Reputable Rog

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Got placed 392 in the SEE comp but they said that they will be calling for interview based on the order of merit. The way I read it is the order of merit is the tests! They haven't looked at the CV's (application docs) yet. Am I right, so basically it doesn't matter what you do in your job it's down to the 12 mins in the test......or am i wrong

It certainly sounds that way. I'm going to appply for Chief Vetrinary Officer or some other competition I am not qualified for using an SEP application just to see if I get asked to do an aptitude test.

gazzer

While I wait back to hear from my PAS regarding my email to them I was just wondering if anybody got anywhere in the region of the following scores and if so where you placed on the SEO panel?

Management Scenario 6650
Verbal Reasoning 4685

Thanks.

MurfballEng

PAS just told me that the SEE competition wont be going ahead before the new year either

nebraska132

I understand for a previous post 664 made the cut in the SEO competition - will all of these be called for the next stage? if not where would an educated guess put the cut-off?

Reputable Rog

nebraska132 wrote: »

I understand for a previous post 664 made the cut in the SEO competition - will all of these be called for the next stage? if not where would an educated guess put the cut-off?

A rational assumption would suggest that they might actually scrutinise the applications now and cull a number of applicants such as those under qualified or Engineers/Planners etc.
Based on the bizarre way the PAS/LGMA are operating though, you could have hundreds called or just a few.

The Megaphone

Reputable Rog wrote: »

A rational assumption would suggest that they might actually scrutinise the applications now and cull a number of applicants such as those under qualified or Engineers/Planners etc.

This would explain why they keep signing off their messages with:

An invitation to attend any part of the selection process is not to be taken as implying that the Public Appointments Service is satisfied that you fulfil the eligibility requirements of the post.

monreaghlad

I got called for interview next Friday, for Senior Engineer - really short notice - main interview, no prelim interview - strange

Reputable Rog

monreaghlad wrote: »

I got called for interview next Friday, for Senior Engineer - really short notice - main interview, no prelim interview - strange

Where were you placed ?

monreaghlad

In the 30s

Reputable Rog

monreaghlad wrote: »

In the 30s

Well done, best of luck.

Moggaman

I am 470 in SEE order of merit. I am acting SEE at the moment. I know lads who are 11 years acting SEEs and are about 300 or so in SEE order of merit .they might not get an interview!. This is a crock of **** in my opinion.
They are way more people unhappy with this process than happy people. I think a stand should be made. our career futures cannot be determined by this mindless shortlisting exercise.
PAS should recruit whoever they need to recruit on a short term basis to at least examine all the applyication forms and shortlist on that basis . It comes down to fairness and this is not fair.

The Megaphone

Moggaman wrote: »

I am 470 in SEE order of merit. I am acting SEE at the moment. I know lads who are 11 years acting SEEs and are about 300 or so in SEE order of merit .they might not get an interview!. This is a crock of **** in my opinion.
They are way more people unhappy with this process than happy people. I think a stand should be made. our career futures cannot be determined by this mindless shortlisting exercise.
PAS should recruit whoever they need to recruit on a short term basis to at least examine all the applyication forms and shortlist on that basis . It comes down to fairness and this is not fair.

So it doesn't suit you, so there must be something wrong? Were you happy with the process until you got your results?

Also not everyone on here is a public sector work, although we hope to be!

Moggaman

The Megaphone wrote: »

So it doesn't suit you, so there must be something wrong? Were you happy with the process until you got your results?

Also not everyone on here is a public sector work, although we hope to be!

I mean it's unfair to all... public and private.there are plenty of super competent private sector engineers that don't get a chance because of a 12 min test. Surely you agree it's a hideous way to shortlist.. my belief is that people's application forms should at least be read. I would like to think if I was 50th in the order of merit the I would have the same belief..

The Megaphone

Moggaman wrote: »

I mean it's unfair to all... public and private.there are plenty of super competent private sector engineers that don't get a chance because of a 12 min test. Surely you agree it's a hideous way to shortlist.. my belief is that people's application forms should at least be read. I would like to think if I was 50th in the order of merit the I would have the same belief..

It is terrible, I know one fella who scored well during the on-line testing, and then just had a bad day during the supervised tests in September.

What I also think it poor, is that no weighting is given to the numerical scores, we're Engineers after all, not English teachers!

gazzer

I got notification from Public Jobs yesterday that they will be in touch with me regarding my appeal in the 'coming days'

sodacake1968

Just curious but what should the alternative selection process be

Reputable Rog

sodacake1968 wrote: »

Just curious but what should the alternative selection process be

Actually read the application forms submitted.They require extensive work and it's only fair that they at least be read.

Moggaman

sodacake1968 wrote: »

Just curious but what should the alternative selection process be

Well shortlisting based on experience and your application form would be a start....

Moggaman

Moggaman wrote: »

Well shortlisting based on experience and your application form would be a start....

Just got a reply to my queries regarding SEE shortlisting. It will be solely based on the test results and people that are not qualified will still be in the process unless they have stated that they are not eligible.

MurfballEng

I imagine than that they will review the CVs in order of merit and disqualify those that are ineligible as they go. So this would mean that if you were say in the 300s initially you may suddenly jump right up as people are eliminated, refuse interview, changed their minds etc.
it will be region specific also, so not all people in front of you will be going for the same region, so overall may be in the 300s but for your selected region you may be in the top 50 - 100 ....
best wait and see what they come back with and when people start getting called for interview or notified that they are ineligible!

Kevin1974

Moggaman wrote: »

Just got a reply to my queries regarding SEE shortlisting. It will be solely based on the test results and people that are not qualified will still be in the process unless they have stated that they are not eligible.

I don’t understand how we could be still in the process if we’re not qualified - what do you mean?

The Megaphone

Kevin1974 wrote: »

I don’t understand how we could be still in the process if we’re not qualified - what do you mean?

The Public Appointments Service have not reviewed any of the applications so some may fall short on academic qualifications or experience.

Reputable Rog

Moggaman wrote: »

Just got a reply to my queries regarding SEE shortlisting. It will be solely based on the test results and people that are not qualified will still be in the process unless they have stated that they are not eligible.

Are they stating that will deem who qualifies or they relying on people to certify?
PAS Q- Do you meet the criteria for this job?
A. I most certainly do.
PAS - Congratulations, see you Tuesday.

Reputable Rog

The Megaphone wrote: »

The Public Appointments Service have not reviewed any of the applications so some may fall short on academic qualifications or experience.

I know for a fact they haven't. I applied for Government Auditor and have an interview based on the psychometric tests.
I know nothing about Auditing but will give it my best shot.

sodacake1968

I think that they only look at qualifications at job offer stage

Moggaman

sodacake1968 wrote: »

I think that they only look at qualifications at job offer stage

Correct and will interview a rake of people who cannot get the job in the process...

sodacake1968

Maybe they expect that candidates only apply for positions that they are qualified for

ECO_Mental

sodacake1968 wrote: »

I think that they only look at qualifications at job offer stage

If this is the case I think it's absolutely scandalous...yes I appreciated they have to weed down the numbers so ok do an online test and get rid of 50% or more. But to interview people only on a 12 min test is crazy:mad: not to actually look at what people have done on their careers is almost negligent. It's supposed to be a competency based interview and application. It's all about meeting the competencies how the hell do they know if you meet these or people who are on the mid 300s (me ) would better meet these. Problem here is the PAS are worse than useless there is no transparency. It should have laid out at the start how EXACTLY the selection process happens. Instead of people indivually emailing PAS and making complaints to find out this **** happens.

Worse than useless :mad:

Moggaman

ECO_Mental wrote: »

If this is the case I think it's absolutely scandalous...yes I appreciated they have to weed down the numbers so ok do an online test and get rid of 50% or more. But to interview people only on a 12 min test is crazy:mad: not to actually look at what people have done on their careers is almost negligent. It's supposed to be a competency based interview and application. It's all about meeting the competencies how the hell do they know if you meet these or people who are on the mid 300s (me ) would better meet these. Problem here is the PAS are worse than useless there is no transparency. It should have laid out at the start how EXACTLY the selection process happens. Instead of people indivually emailing PAS and making complaints to find out this **** happens.

Worse than useless :mad:

Couldn't agree more. Dishing out hundreds of jobs without looking at applications ... scandalous.

passinginterest

Moggaman wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Dishing out hundreds of jobs without looking at applications ... scandalous.

That's a bit disingenuous. They won't dish out jobs without looking at the applications. The interview will be based on the application form and the competencies, it would be hard to succeed in the interview if the application doesn't match the job applied for, after that, in the event someone does manage to spoof the interview the qualifications will be checked before the job offer is finalised, along with references.

It's not an ideal system and it's an evolving one. I know for the current interdepartmental HEO competition PAS has said they will be reviewing applications before calling to interview, that's as a result of recent competitions where at interview stage it was very evident that some of those who got through were in no way qualified for the job.

I'd imagine there's much smaller numbers applying for specialist jobs like engineers and PAS are at least taking the position that it would be a very small cohort who would just chance their arm applying without at least genuinely thinking they have the experience and qualifications necessary.

Kevin1974

Has any got an answer from PAS as to when the SEE interviews are going to be held and how may they are going to interview - are they going to take the same approach as the SE competition and interview the top100?

Moggaman

passinginterest wrote: »

That's a bit disingenuous. They won't dish out jobs without looking at the applications. The interview will be based on the application form and the competencies, it would be hard to succeed in the interview if the application doesn't match the job applied for, after that, in the event someone does manage to spoof the interview the qualifications will be checked before the job offer is finalised, along with references.

It's not an ideal system and it's an evolving one. I know for the current interdepartmental HEO competition PAS has said they will be reviewing applications before calling to interview, that's as a result of recent competitions where at interview stage it was very evident that some of those who got through were in no way qualified for the job.

I'd imagine there's much smaller numbers applying for specialist jobs like engineers and PAS are at least taking the position that it would be a very small cohort who would just chance their arm applying without at least genuinely thinking they have the experience and qualifications necessary.

Your right .. I am ...frustration!

Rebel83

Hi there - 1st time poster so be gentle with me

I spotted above that some posters mentioned the next stage for SEO won't be until 2017, has anyone had confirmation of that from PAS?

Also, I'm assuming the order of merit is where you placed nationally not Regionally- would that be a reasonable assumption? Does anyone know how long it takes between interview & offer stage?

I know the probationary period is 12 months, I presume the same applies to maternity leave, you'd need to be there at least 12 months before you could get paid mat leave? Feels crazy asking the question but it's taking so long since they were advertised in May & if it's another 4/5 months before even starting (if I manage to survive the process) then it has the potential to become a factor for us.

I'm an external candidate so not sure exactly how these things work & have full benefits where I am now, but would really love this opportunity- the timing is just really awkward ��

ECO_Mental

Rebel83 wrote: »

I know the probationary period is 12 months, I presume the same applies to maternity leave, you'd need to be there at least 12 months before you could get paid mat leave? Feels crazy asking the question but it's taking so long since they were advertised in May & if it's another 4/5 months before even starting (if I manage to survive the process) then it has the potential to become a factor for us.

No probs, if you get in no worries there is no waiting time for mat leave. I've seen women taken on as a temp for maternity cover and they then go on mat leave themselves.....

Regarding the probationary period, unless you actually murder your boss or a member of staff or you are caught stuffing your pockets with cash from the petty cash you will sail through that also

Rebel83

Haha - thanks for making me giggle. Pretty sure murdering my boss wouldn't be on the cards!

In terms of maternity leave, I know I'd be entitled to the leave, it's just whether they would offer full pay - many private sector employers don't top up your salary if you've less than 12 months service - hopefully it wouldn't be the case in the Local Authority. It seems mad to be thinking about maternity leave from a role I haven't started, but I didn't expect the process would take so long when I applied back in May & it's hopefully something on the agenda for us in 2018 but would be tough with only statutory pay!

ECO_Mental

You will get full pay, 99.99% sure of that. That's the one thing about the PS it's family friendly, you might get more money in the private sector but for flexitime worksharing termtime etc you cannot beat it

Rebel83

ECO_Mental wrote: »

You will get full pay, 99.99% sure of that. That's the one thing about the PS it's family friendly, you might get more money in the private sector but for flexitime worksharing termtime etc you cannot beat it

Thanks - better work/life balance is definitely a key factor!

Does anyone know re the placing - is the order or merit nationally or regionally? Hoping it's nationally which will make me a little higher regionally.

Reputable Rog

Rebel83 wrote: »

Thanks - better work/life balance is definitely a key factor!

Does anyone know re the placing - is the order or merit nationally or regionally? Hoping it's nationally which will make me a little higher regionally.

It's nationally.

CaJoCo

Does anyone know when stage 3 of the SEO competition will be? And whether (fingers crossed) job offers can be deferred to allow for notice periods or to complete courses?

gazzer

I finally got a reply from PAS after the initial email I sent them 6 weeks ago. In that email I was objecting to being not selected for Stage 3 due to the fact that I got a couple of thousand lower in my Verbal reasoning score in Stage 2 but yet was still way above the qualifying mark.

It took PAS 6 weeks to come back to me with the following response.

"We have consulted with our assessment services unit regarding your request for further information regarding a figure for scores outside the expected scoring range.

We cannot disclose this figure, marking schemes, or any other information in respect to the mechanics of the assessments as this would compromise the integrity and fairness of the assessments"

I would love to go further legally but I suspect it is too late due to the lateness of the PAS response

CaJoCo

Was this for the SEE or SEO competition?

gazzer wrote: »

I finally got a reply from PAS after the initial email I sent them 6 weeks ago. In that email I was objecting to being not selected for Stage 3 due to the fact that I got a couple of thousand lower in my Verbal reasoning score in Stage 2 but yet was still way above the qualifying mark.

It took PAS 6 weeks to come back to me with the following response.

"We have consulted with our assessment services unit regarding your request for further information regarding a figure for scores outside the expected scoring range.

We cannot disclose this figure, marking schemes, or any other information in respect to the mechanics of the assessments as this would compromise the integrity and fairness of the assessments"

I would love to go further legally but I suspect it is too late due to the lateness of the PAS response

ECO_Mental

gazzer wrote: »

.
.
We cannot disclose this figure, marking schemes, or any other information in respect to the mechanics of the assessments as this would compromise the integrity and fairness of the assessments[/B]"

I w

WTF.....biggest load of garbage I have heard in a long time. Big massive secret :mad: how the hell do we know it's fair. Comedy show this competition, they want to take all subjectivity and and work away from the PAS in actually reading a CV

prettyboy81

Some nothing information I got yesterday below, I asked about order of merit based on the regions we have chosen.

"There is no further breakdown to issue after Stage 2. You are given your order of merit based only on your performance at the various tests. There is no regional breakdown at this stage.

We are still in the planning stage for this campaign and the number to be called forward and what the next stage will be is still to be finalised. As per the result message it is intended to invite a number of candidates, based on the order of merit, to Stage 3 (Shortlisting/Interview)"

gazzer

CaJoCo wrote: »

Was this for the SEE or SEO competition?

It was for the SEO

Nerd Queen

Anyone heard any updates? In the top 10 so anxiously awaiting info!

The Megaphone

Nerd Queen wrote: »

In the top 10

If you haven't heard anything then I doubt anyone else has!

Very impressive result by the way - well done!

Nerd Queen

The Megaphone wrote: »

If you haven't heard anything then I doubt anyone else has!

Very impressive result by the way - well done!

Thank you :-)! I was hoping somebody had heard something on the grapevine! If nothing else this competition has taught me patience hahaha

prettyboy81

We will need to rename this thread the 2017 into 2018 SEO Comp. No decisions by PAS from the limited information communicated by them would indicate no progress until early 2018. The grapevine is dehydrated for this competition.

Great placement "Nerd Queen" Top 10.

ECO_Mental

Just got word of the Senior Engineer panel and one of the dudes who came within the top 5 (and is being offered a job) was an assistant engineer only about a year ago. Hes in his early thirties also....fair play to him

But this asks the question what happened to the "8 years satisfactory relevant experience including a period of not less than six years satisfactory experience in the direction and supervision of major engineering work"

Now I don't know how you can get that experience only after 10 years out of college??? It is obvious now that the PAS don't care about your experience or can you do the job but if you hit the management buzz words and tick that box in the interview you will get the gig. :(:eek::o