BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

trellheim

But - as I pointed out in Rathmines the key issues are local - school drops - and not through traffic - the key issue for buses is at the Canal so a bus gate wont affect running times at all its already a bus lane at that bit from the gate to the canal and is always free for buses as there is almost no shops - same mostly all the way from the library in.

Bus gating - if done at all - down near the Stella - MIGHT - big MIGHT - have a better result.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661030#Comment_120661030

Will the bus gate at Portobello benefit from restricted left and right turn bans from the canal inbound? This will significantly reduce conflicts especially with the Greenway along the canal.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661030#Comment_120661030

A bus gate would improve outbound journey times though and therefore improve reliability on subsequent inbound services.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660938#Comment_120660938

That's nice but your doubts aren't the same as evidence. Bus Connects is supported by modelling which shows an overall reduction in car usage, that has been the experience globally and locally on similar projects.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659395#Comment_120659395

I know someone who got that email and they haven't worked for DB in nearly 10 years.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661460#Comment_120661460

Other projects will operate within a different landscape, but i do agree there will probably be some small reduction in car travel and that the trend seen with other projects will coninue here.

But plenty of folks will still happily sit in their cars for 10 or 15 mins longer rather than having to walk 10 or 15 mins to a bus stop, or more inconveniently, have to change buses (waiting time) to get somewhere near their end destination. And then walk the last leg.

I would imagine for City Centre journeys, the removal or reduction of free/paid parking will have a big effect on people getting out of their cars though.

Possibly more of an impact than the Bus route changes that serve those folks.

alentejo

8.40 am this morning on my commute (by bike) a

about 6 buses awaiting to get over the canal at the bottom of Rathmines Road Lower. About 10 to 20 cyclists stuck behind a bus on a bus lane unable to get past the bus. When the light went green, several cyclists, 2 cars and one bus managed to get past the lights and over the canal. At present, buses on the bus lane in Rathmines can only go as fast as the slowest bike.

Further down in Camden Street, there was about 8 buses with a mix of cars awaiting to clean the Kevin Street / Cuffe Street junction with many buses waiting 2 to 3 light changes to get past.

A combination of some (limited) bus gates on both Rathmines and Kevin Street plus some traffic light sequencing could vastly improve journey times for bus users and cyclists. This could be done now.

The Rathmines - Kevin Street axis is one of the most important public transport routes in the city. Yes, bus gates could lead to increase traffic in Ranelagh, however Luas is the primary Public Transport route for people in this area.

DaBluBoi

https://www.newstalk.com/news/phoenix-park-to-get-free-bus-service-under-new-plan-1470845

Perhaps N2 will be rerouted through Phoenix Park after all?

Daith

Wish they could figure out how to get a bus through the Cabra entrance. A connection to Heuston from the Northside without going through the city would be great

StreetLight

There was supposed to have been a similar service launched years ago, using the buses gained from the loss of the 76 route from Conyngham Road garage. It was to run between Tara Street and Chesterfield Avenue in the Phoenix Park.

Schedules were drawn up and bus destination signs were updated to include the new Route 90Z, but the OPW refused to permit the regular service into the Phoenix Park.

So, what has changed with the OPW's attitude between then and now?

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667902#Comment_120667902

Maybe, but the OPW still need to get over themselves on the "historic" gates, which is now the main block against having the N2 go through the park. If they're so historic that they can't be moved or altered to accommodate buses, then surely they're so historic that you can't have hundreds of cars speeding past them on an hourly basis.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668746#Comment_120668746

Well, the political and environmental landscape has changed a massively, but they're still trying to get away with the bare minimum. The article talks about their draft parking strategy, which incredible as it may seem, actually posited an increase of parking spaces of over 1000 in the park. It tried to ignore the fact that vast majority of people said that the lack of a bus service was the major obstacle to them using the park.

bk

I’ve been thinking, could the N2 perhaps get away with using just single decker electric busses like the O route are getting?

It would avoid the issue with the gates and it would look great to see electric busses operating through the park. Also along the leafy Griffith Avenue.

Im sure it would sometimes be very busy, but in general I’d guess single deckers would have enough capacity for normal service. Perhaps increase the frequency to every 10 minutes, rather than the original planned 15 minutes to make up for it. (And yes I know would require more drivers).

I think if they are serious about serving the park, the N2 will end up looking quiet different to the original planned N2 service.

“So, what has changed with the OPW's attitude between then and now?”

Some one most phage smacked them in the back of the head and pointed out that their thinking is completely out of line with our environmental goals, which is ironic for an organisation that runs parks.

When I think about it, it makes me mad! They want to increase car parking in the park, while not allowing busses in the park or bike rental services like Dublin bikes, Moby and Bleeper.

Complete and utter madness, frankly I feel like the OPW needs a change in leadership to someone who actually understands our environmental goals.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669513#Comment_120669513

Was the Phoenix Park gate issue to do with the width of the bus and not the height? I imagine the width of a single decker bus is the same as a double.

thomasj

LoL did I miss something ?

p_haugh

"When I think about it, it makes me mad! They want to increase car parking in the park, while not allowing busses in the park or bike rental services like Dublin bikes, Moby and Bleeper. "

If it's an issue of bikes being dumped all over the park, they could easily work with the likes of Bleeper and Moby to have designated racks at various locations in the park, and make it so you can only park in those zones. Similar to how Bleeper has "suburban hubs" in crumlin, dundrum, sandyford, etc. And then have a Dublin bikes station outside the zoo and maybe one or two more dotted around the park as well.

Daith

I'm definitely on board with the historic gates of the Cabra entrance to the Phoenix Park as not that important in the grand scheme of things. Maybe move the gates to a new pedestrian entrance if you want to keep them.

bk

I suspect the issue is the existing bike rental place at the main entrance to the park. Though really it is a very different type of service, expensive and aimed at tourists cycling around the park, not people cycling to and from the park.

Frankly if it is an issue they should just pay off or CPO the company. It simply isn’t good enough that there is a big missing chunk of Dublin from all the normal bike rental schemes and that people can’t use them from the park.

Of course there is nothing stopping someone renting one of these and cycling to the park, many do, the issue is you can’t start a ride on any of them from within the park.

Again just not good enough.

“Was the Phoenix Park gate issue to do with the width of the bus and not the height? I imagine the width of a single decker bus is the same as a double.”

Aha, I’d didn’t realise that fair enough.

ITV2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668746#Comment_120668746

Buses had scrolls done.. but alas no service

ITV2

the latest from NBrU

Daith

Oh, is the L89 going to Broombridge now. I thought it was stopping at Finglas Village but could have been very old info.

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120670753#Comment_120670753

Why keeping the 9 and 83's on the northside, instead of transitioning to the 23/24?

cgcsb

Wow that probably pushes the timeline for network redesign into 2026. It'll be well and truly redundant by then, 8 years after first public consultation.

What do the additional letters mean? DA, KT etc?

Also the acronyms after the description BST, HT, CRD etc

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120670816#Comment_120670816

Because they’re in a different phase.

The phasing is resource driven and those routes will I suspect need more buses and drivers.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120670833#Comment_120670833

Don't know them all, but I'd wager they're the depots. HT = Harristown, BST Broadstone, etc.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120670833#Comment_120670833

To be fair, I think you are being a bit melodramatic about this.

Most of us want this to happen sooner rather than later. That being said, we all know the reasons for the delay, and they are perfectly valid ones that many employers are facing - they have not got the staff needed, and frankly I would vigorously oppose any further phases being implemented until they do have the staff.

As for being redundant, a full bus network redesign in a city would only ever normally happen once in a lifetime.

The basic principles of the new network which were decided in September 2020 will remain unchanged for the foreseeable future, more orbitals and Spines, so no it won’t be redundant at all.

The key element of the revised network are the additional orbital routes, and they will still hopefully be in place by the end of this year with the addition of the southern and western orbitals.

The rest, apart from the O and the remaining northern orbitals are re-arranging the furniture to be honest but will all require more buses.

It is perfectly possible that frequencies may increase and routes may be tweaked from those proposed in September 2020 as those final phases are implemented, there’s nothing to stop that, so I don’t in any way, shape or form think it will be redundant.

The letters at the end (BST/CRD etc.) are the Dublin Bus garages and are fairly obvious once you know that.

No idea about the DA or KT after 80 & 81.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120670791#Comment_120670791

That’s a good example of a route being tweaked from the final plan published in September 2020.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120670932#Comment_120670932

Wow that's a long post for a simple bit of condescension. I thought you'd reformed but there you are still talking down to other posters

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120670753#Comment_120670753

I’m kinda surprised they’re cancelling the 26 altogether for Phase 6 and implementing the full version of the 80 to Ballinteer, given it is also supposed to replace parts of the 14 and 16 there. Unless if the DA code indicates that it will retain the 140 terminus of Rathmines for now, and will extend to Ballinteer once the A Spine comes along?

cgcsb

The F1 continuing to IKEA is interesting the final network showed it terminating at Charlestown.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120671524#Comment_120671524

I was just about to ask the same question I can't see the F1 going to IKEA on any map. Maybe it is just temporary until the E spine is up and running if the 140 is being withdrawn it would leave a gap between IKEA and Charlestown SC.