BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

MJohnston

Qrt wrote: »

The O is avoiding Sheriff St, no?

You're right, logically I just assumed it'd be Sheriff Street, Guild Street, and the bridge, but I guess not. I think the Macken Street one is the only one.

Stephen15

I think the O route would be an ideal candidate for high capacity bendybuses if the proper infrastructure was put in place it could be done in a BRT type manner. I would say a lot of journeys done by this route will be fairly short in nature particularly around peak times with people going to the Grand Canal Dock/IFSC area. It wouldn't make sense to have double deckers which are time consuming to board and unload with or without the height restriction.

liger

CatInABox wrote: »

And none of that's true, well done. The only route that won't be using Double Decker buses is the O Orbital, and that will be using Single Decker buses.

That's where I got my information from, where did you get yours?

loyatemu

liger wrote: »

That's where I got my information from, where did you get yours?

what page of the Busconnects document is that from?

LeinsterDub

loyatemu wrote: »

what page of the Busconnects document is that from?

It looks like the NBRU handout

Qrt

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It looks like the NBRU handout

Judging from the dodgy formatting (capitals where there shouldn't be capitals) it definitely looks like its from the NBRU handout.

Ignore it, most of it is outright lies anyway. There isn't the fleet for all local services to suddenly become 28-seater single deck buses.

Qrt

https://www.herald.ie/news/people-are-worried-20000-respond-to-busconnects-plans-37366175.html

We will now be taking their concerns on board and will come out with a revised plan next June

LeinsterDub

Qrt wrote: »

https://www.herald.ie/news/people-are-worried-20000-respond-to-busconnects-plans-37366175.html

The NTA is entirely backlogged. Bus Connects infrastructure up next , then Metro link.

Also on the agenda is the Dart expansion and new rail unit procurement.

davetherave

It comes from the Gospel according to Dermot O'Leary who would have you believe you would be getting on a 28 seater coach like this
https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/The-Noones-Turas-700-interior.jpg

Whereas the head of the NTA has said to the Joint Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport that they are buses with a seating capacity of 28 and a standing capacity 30-40 with wheelchair and buggy spaces.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_transport_tourism_and_sport/2018-07-18/5/

"There is no proposal to change the fleet operating in the Dublin area, which is primarily a double-decker fleet."

"Those are full-length single-decker vehicles. The 28-seat configuration allows more standing space. There are two main purposes for which we intend to use them. One is to reach areas double-decker buses will have difficulty servicing, areas with steep hills or on the fringes of Dublin. The other area where those buses may be used is in the O-ring, that is, the new concept of the inner orbital route. The reason for that is that there is a low bridge, so a single-deck vehicle is needed."

My local idiot John Lahart didn't seem to be getting it and she had to repeat

It is between 50 and 70. Those are the typical single-deck vehicles seen in many other cities. They offer more standing space, which is particularly appropriate in O-ring, which is envisioned as a jump-on, jump-off service. That is the purpose for which those vehicles are earmarked. At the moment, 40 of those vehicles are on order. That is out of a fleet on the order of 1,000 vehicles. It is a very small percentage of the overall fleet.

Maybe Deputy Lahart things that there are only two buses serving every route, one inbound and one outbound.

CatInABox

davetherave wrote: »

It comes from the Gospel according to Dermot O'Leary who would have you believe you would be getting on a 28 seater coach like this
https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/The-Noones-Turas-700-interior.jpg

Whereas the head of the NTA has said to the Joint Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport that they are buses with a seating capacity of 28 and a standing capacity 30-40 with wheelchair and buggy spaces.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_transport_tourism_and_sport/2018-07-18/5/

My local idiot John Lahart didn't seem to be getting it and she had to repeat

Maybe Deputy Lahart things that there are only two buses serving every route, one inbound and one outbound.

Yes, that's where I got my info from, straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. I watched that live and despaired at the quality of our elected officials.

Also worth noting is that the extra standing room on those buses is also extra wheelchair spaces as well. I believe the thinking behind the 28 seat high standing capacity is that most journeys on the O route will be quite short, people hopping from one radial route to another. Almost no one will be going long distances on it, as there's usually a more efficient journey in those cases.

devnull

liger wrote: »

That's where I got my information from, where did you get yours?

That's an NBRU hand-out. It's not true.

devnull

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-drivers-to-get-1-4m-over-privatisation-of-routes-1.3646823

So essentially confirms what has been said elsewhere about BusConnects as well, it's bad for Dublin Bus drivers since it means marked-in drivers will lose what would be very comfortable rosters that they may have been holding on to for some time, which makes it plain to see why the union objects to so many routes being changed.

sharper

devnull wrote: »

So essentially confirms what has been said elsewhere about BusConnects as well, it's bad for Dublin Bus drivers since it means marked-in drivers will lose what would be very comfortable rosters that they may have been holding on to for some time, which makes it plain to see why the union objects to so many routes being changed.

It gives us a good idea of what the NBRU are really angling for in their bus connects involvement. They'll want a payout similar to this for all drivers.

Sam Russell

Stephen15 wrote: »

I think the O route would be an ideal candidate for high capacity bendybuses if the proper infrastructure was put in place it could be done in a BRT type manner. I would say a lot of journeys done by this route will be fairly short in nature particularly around peak times with people going to the Grand Canal Dock/IFSC area. It wouldn't make sense to have double deckers which are time consuming to board and unload with or without the height restriction.

A bendy bus would not be able to turn at the top of Macken St.

Bendy buses are dreadful and should be kept out of Dublin. They are great for wide boulevards and tree lined avenues, but not Dublin's narrow inner-city streets, with their poor surfaces where the bumps meet each other to form a surface akin to a Lunar landing site causing those in the back part of the bendy bus to be thrown about as if they were in a bouncy castle. Navigating turns that require normal buses to have to veer to the wrong side of the road to make a turn, the bendy buses requires the driver to get out and ask drivers coming against the bus to please give room.

No bendy buses.

CatInABox

Sam Russell wrote: »

A bendy bus would not be able to turn at the top of Macken St.

Bendy buses are dreadful and should be kept out of Dublin. They are great for wide boulevards and tree lined avenues, but not Dublin's narrow inner-city streets, with their poor surfaces where the bumps meet each other to form a surface akin to a Lunar landing site causing those in the back part of the bendy bus to be thrown about as if they were in a bouncy castle. Navigating turns that require normal buses to have to veer to the wrong side of the road to make a turn, the bendy buses requires the driver to get out and ask drivers coming against the bus to please give room.

No bendy buses.

Ah, you could use bendy buses in Dublin if you CPO a new motorway through the centre of the city. Who needs the GPO anyway, I only use email these days.

marno21

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/exorbitant-3m-spent-on-consultants-in-new-plan-for-dublin-s-buses-1.3646747

Irish Times serving a good dose of hyperbole and misinformed junk for breakfast

CatInABox

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/exorbitant-3m-spent-on-consultants-in-new-plan-for-dublin-s-buses-1.3646747

Irish Times serving a good dose of hyperbole and misinformed junk for breakfast

I love that Ms Munster wants the NTA to employ public transport network redesign experts at all times, never mind that we haven't had a redesign in decades.

dashcamdanny

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/exorbitant-3m-spent-on-consultants-in-new-plan-for-dublin-s-buses-1.3646747

Irish Times serving a good dose of hyperbole and misinformed junk for breakfast

Please point out the misinformed parts?

john boye

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/exorbitant-3m-spent-on-consultants-in-new-plan-for-dublin-s-buses-1.3646747

Irish Times serving a good dose of hyperbole and misinformed junk for breakfast

How much does the IT think consultants cost? Has it been living under a rock for the last 20 years?

Stephen15

Sam Russell wrote: »

A bendy bus would not be able to turn at the top of Macken St.

Bendy buses are dreadful and should be kept out of Dublin. They are great for wide boulevards and tree lined avenues, but not Dublin's narrow inner-city streets, with their poor surfaces where the bumps meet each other to form a surface akin to a Lunar landing site causing those in the back part of the bendy bus to be thrown about as if they were in a bouncy castle. Navigating turns that require normal buses to have to veer to the wrong side of the road to make a turn, the bendy buses requires the driver to get out and ask drivers coming against the bus to please give room.

No bendy buses.

They would work if the proper infrastructure was put in place

Sam Russell

Stephen15 wrote: »

They would work if the proper infrastructure was put in place

- Like wide boulavards and tree lined avenues with no narrow roads with sharp bends. They add only a few extra passengers down the back that results in longer dwell time while those passengers struggle to get out from the back of a crowded bendy bus.

XPS_Zero

Remember something about these Journos, many of them are failed attempts at politicos, and they could not hack it, or didn't have the emotional intelligence, charisma, ideas, or mannerisms. They were good at CSPE in school and PoliSci in college and think that qualifies them for politics but the way it works in a classroom in theory and in reality are very different. Many of them, even worse, and it's not just journos, are under the impression being active in a student union will give you prep for politics, if anything it's the opposite, the electorates are nothing alike, the voter turnout and numbers are nothing alike, the issues are way more complex, totally different mix of classes, it's apples and oranges...but they go in, often as careerists (the type who knows what they want but not why they want it or what to do when they get there) but find there are other careerists there, or people with actual ideas and principles, who are just better at playing the game than they are. Then they get bitter and cynical and flame out of it but still wanna influence it.


So they influence politics through writing (poorly) for papers. They let off their steam that way. They become professional whingers, which speaks to a certain segment of the Irish population who would whinge if we turned into a utopia in the morning. They write articles where the dramatic title has nothing to do with whats in the actual article. Go back and look at the stories about the Port Tunnel, how there would be earthquakes, houses would fall into the ground etc
Look at now with the GAA pitches, they only know how to tear things down.



I'll give you an example, MM had a decent idea to end pay for play corruption, which was a big thing with FF during the Haughey era. The fact that it was 30 years ago and even back then 50% of the party hated it and tried to push those people out didn't stop it poisoning the partys image with many people. So he proposed total public funding of elections (it's partially funded that way now, partially by capped and public private donations) and a constitutional ban on corporate donations was introduced in the Dail (and killed quietly in committee by FG who are trying to do the same with the water ownership referendum). The very same journos who casually called all Irish politicians corrupt, complaining about dodgy councilors all the time reacted to this proposal by saying "what??? you want me to pay thru my taxes for a party i didn't vote for?"...the point was you'll be funding ALL parties, the process, the system...and they will be working for who pays them, if it's the public they'll work for the public interest, if their moneys coming from private special interest donors that's who will have the most power over them...so they were whinging no matter which way it was and not proposing a third option. This is most Irish journos. Cynical, directionless moaning.

XPS_Zero

I've spent some time on the Belfast Glider, and it works in Belfast because it's not laid out (esp the city centre) in the medieval way Dublin is, it's very blocky, and the routes chosen were for this reason.


It would not work in Dublin, it would be a disaster EXCEPT maybe along mostly str8 stretches like the N11 possibly.


They are very good at ticket checking on it, I got checked twice in one day last time. They also have something we should have here for the bus at major stops: validators at the actual bus stop. Think how fast loading time would improve if you had a flat fare with stop only validation.

Zebra3

The old town in Seville is medieval.

Dublin? I don’t think so...

KD345

Sam Russell wrote: »

A bendy bus would not be able to turn at the top of Macken St.

Bendy buses are dreadful and should be kept out of Dublin. They are great for wide boulevards and tree lined avenues, but not Dublin's narrow inner-city streets, with their poor surfaces where the bumps meet each other to form a surface akin to a Lunar landing site causing those in the back part of the bendy bus to be thrown about as if they were in a bouncy castle. Navigating turns that require normal buses to have to veer to the wrong side of the road to make a turn, the bendy buses requires the driver to get out and ask drivers coming against the bus to please give room.

No bendy buses.

One of the designers of Bus Connects says the O route will be operated by 18m articulated bused.

https://twitter.com/dan_costantino/status/1045707059369369605?s=21

Qrt

The O route really would be of incredible benefit, particularly if you happen to get a D bus or a Luas and work in the Harcourt St. area. It honestly can't come any sooner.

Radio Gold

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I've spent some time on the Belfast Glider, and it works in Belfast because it's not laid out (esp the city centre) in the medieval way Dublin is, it's very blocky, and the routes chosen were for this reason.


It would not work in Dublin, it would be a disaster EXCEPT maybe along mostly str8 stretches like the N11 possibly.


They are very good at ticket checking on it, I got checked twice in one day last time. They also have something we should have here for the bus at major stops: validators at the actual bus stop. Think how fast loading time would improve if you had a flat fare with stop only validation.

I was on the Belfast Glider last week also and I Find it works well in Belfast as the streets are much wider than Dublin City, the Glider stops are certainly something that could be looked at here with smartcard scanners , and they have machines wear you can pay cash and also top up your smartcard certainly main DB/GA stops would be something they should look at.

Stephen15

Radio Gold wrote: »

I was on the Belfast Glider last week also and I Find it works well in Belfast as the streets are much wider than Dublin City, the Glider stops are certainly something that could be looked at here with smartcard scanners , and they have machines wear you can pay cash and also top up your smartcard certainly main DB/GA stops would be something they should look at.

The Glider is BRT more like Swiftway which was being proposed here a couple of years ago and now appears to be cancelled. The problem with BRT is it creates a two tier bus system and could be used as a cheap solution to further Luas lines or Metro.

marno21

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Please point out the misinformed parts?

The Irish Times don't seem to understand how transport planning works if they think that €3m for a redesign of a bus system in a city of Dublin's size is "exorbitant"

Also, Imelda Munster needs to go back to basics based on that article. She clearly doesn't understand what's involved in planning of transport systems and networks based on the quotes there. There are no magicians waiting around the place willing to volunteer solutions for ineffective transport systems.

Pseudorandom

The problem is always going to be that anyone who looks at the BusConnects plan is going to look at the buses they already take, if that bus is reduced in frequency or now requires a change then obviously to them the plan is a failure and a reduction in service.

The messaging about BusConnects has been pretty poor (not helped at all by the unions unfortunately). I've gotten at least two letters in the door, one from PBP (save our buses!) and another presumably from the NBRU both of which talk a fair bit of nonsense about the changes. I'm in D6W near the 9 route, both letters claim the 9 is gone or being replaced with the F1 only. Instead the 54A and the 9 have been consolidated into the F1/2/3.

I do think that it would make sense to have some of the 4 A routes swing down Kenilworth Rd and through Terenure instead of having all 4 go through Rathgar though. Harold's Cross Road seems particularly badly served.