The Orville

Johnny Storm

warning - post may contain extreme grumpiness:

I did not think much of the first episode. I am not sure what they are trying to do. I didn't think it was very funny, it did not really IMHO stand up as a scifi drama and it wasn't even interesting as a parody of Star Trek. What is the point of it? Is it a vanity project?

One thing I did find interesting was the way the music in the opening scenes sounded almost exactly like a mix of the various Trek themes but (I assume) with just enough notes changed to prevent them from being sued ....

Goodshape

It does feel like a vanity project but... I'm kinda okay with that.

MacFarlane and others involved are obviously massive TNG fans and have the money and 'name' to get things done. Orville felt like exactly what I'd do in their situation.

I enjoyed the look of awe and wonder as they approached the ship for the first time, or the little pleased grin to himself as he gave the first order to engage the star drive (or whatever they're calling it). Looked like a childhood dream was coming true and tbh I was grinning right along with him!


Not saying it's great but for this life-long die-hard TNG fan, it was quite enjoyable to watch. Much more than I'd expected anyway

AMKC

Where is this available to view? I have not seen it on Fox here yet or any other TV channel.

pixelburp

Goodshape wrote: »

It does feel like a vanity project but... I'm kinda okay with that.

MacFarlane and others involved are obviously massive TNG fans and have the money and 'name' to get things done. Orville felt like exactly what I'd do in their situation.

That pretty much had the opposite affect on me though; why would I want to watch something so achingly 'like' Star Trek when there's, what, 500 episodes of the real thing? And not just a rip-off either, a clone whose script constantly interjected with half-baked frat humour & cliché "Men are from Mars..." drama.

I mean I'll keep an eye on it, but for me it was beyond awful.

Goodshape

pixelburp wrote: »

That pretty much had the opposite affect on me though; why would I want to watch something so achingly 'like' Star Trek when there's, what, 500 episodes of the real thing? And not just a rip-off either, a clone whose script constantly interjected with half-baked frat humour & cliché "Men are from Mars..." drama.

I mean I'll keep an eye on it, but for me it was beyond awful.

I was expecting awful, so maybe it's a case of lowered expectations working in it's favour.

But why not just watch one of the ~500 episodes of Trek? Only because I've seen them all tens of times. Nice to have something new. And I hope it sticks close enough to the single-episode self-contained adventures. That's super rare these days.

And I didn't find the humour too frat-y. They seemed much worse in the trailer.

pixelburp

Goodshape wrote: »

[...]

But why not just watch one of the ~500 episodes of Trek? Only because I've seen them all tens of times. Nice to have something new. And I hope it sticks close enough to the single-episode self-contained adventures. That's super rare these days.

But that's kinda my point & why it rubbed me up the wrong way: it wasn't new. Not in any demonstrable fashion, just a bunch of knockoff uniforms and sets that were close enough to 80/90s Trek without making Legal Departments nervous. Say what you will about Discovery - and we're all sure to do just that! - but at least they're trying to build something distinctive with its own identity. Not to overstate an opinion of a single episodes, but The Orville felt like it was wallowing in nostalgia.

Goodshape

AMKC wrote: »

Where is this available to view? I have not seen it on Fox here yet or any other TV channel.

It's not really 'available for viewing' outside of the USA :-/

But I suspect some people may have downloaded it form the Internet.


/whistles innocently

AMKC

Goodshape wrote: »

It's not really 'available for viewing' outside of the USA :-/

But I suspect some people may have downloaded it form the Internet.


/whistles innocently

Awe ok. Well thank you for that.

Do please use spoiler tags if there is any spoilers.

I do see Fox UK have got it for distribution here now. They just need to set on air date. The sooner the better.

TheIrishGrover

I tried. I watched up to where he's talking to his crew, to his new navigator (Not his friend) and I just couldn't go on. It is SO schizophrenic. The difference between the drama aspects and the "comedy" is just so jarring. Go for one or the other. Not both. One minute he's talking to his general about how he was on the fast track and is now lagging behind. How he's always wanted to be a captain. Next minute he's spitting out marbles. Next he's supplying some awkward, ham-fisted exposition about the young alien being super strang and then he's having a conversation about allowing drinking soda on the bridge (Supposed to be funny I suppose).

Bring it back to the editing suite and choose one track or another

Optimus Prime

I really liked it, i thought it was a love letter to Star Trek, especially TNG. Even the screen fades in the show where i guess ad breaks would be reminded me of TNG. I wont go into other details because of spoilers, but i thought it was a good start, the jokes are a lot further apart in it than i was expecting. It does a have a story its not just one to joke to the next.

JayRoc

pixelburp wrote: »

but The Orville felt like it was wallowing in nostalgia.

I haven't seen it yet but tbh the above is okay by me.

Greyjoy

I'm in two minds about the show. It's got potential and it does feel far more of a homage than a spoof. But it needs to dial back the jokes a little. It felt like every single line of dialogue was responded to with a punchline. If they ease off the jokes they might be able to balance the drama & comedy better.

_Kaiser_

Re watched it there and it's actually pretty decent.

Sure some of the jokes don't land but they're pretty well-spaced and even the crew scene in the shuttle bay works if you take it in context of a new, not quite ready Captain trying somewhat awkwardly to bond with his senior officers.

I honestly think it's getting too much of a slating in the "pro" reviews - it's by no means perfect, but it's S01 E01 and it's definitely very watchable I think.

The music is VERY trek as I said before.. when the Krill ship arrives for example is very DS9 during the Dominion War era.

degrassinoel

this is comedy for trekkies, not everyone is gonna get it

Tell ye what though, they had some epic budget to blow on the special effects and i hope they get a second season, i liked it but i seriously doubt they're gonna get the numbers they need to make it.

The dog licking his balls bit was comical

For a show that it's in 2017, it just felt kinda cheap in many places.

Goodshape

degrassinoel wrote: »

The dog licking his balls bit was comical

I was annoyed though that they had one of the characters comment on it. Was almost a lovely little bit of background humour.

Quickly went from a high-point of the episode (the awkward background lols) to a low-point ("hey, did you see that dog licking his balls?" –– goddamn it yes, we did. We got it. Not idiots).

_Kaiser_

Goodshape wrote: »

I was annoyed though that they had one of the characters comment on it. Was almost a lovely little bit of background humour.

Quickly went from a high-point of the episode (the awkward background lols) to a low-point ("hey, did you see that dog licking his balls?" –– goddamn it yes, we did. We got it. Not idiots).

Trekyards did a review and were very positive about the show overall.. but they did comment on that scene in that it's probably exactly what an "everyman" would do in that scenario.

I think that's the way to look at this show.. Average Joe in space.. not trained, disciplined Starfleet officers.

Greyjoy

Goodshape wrote: »

I was annoyed though that they had one of the characters comment on it. Was almost a lovely little bit of background humour.

Quickly went from a high-point of the episode (the awkward background lols) to a low-point ("hey, did you see that dog licking his balls?" –– goddamn it yes, we did. We got it. Not idiots).

Yeah it was an awful example of not sticking to the adage of "show - don't tell". It started with a funny joke (the dog in background). All it needed was for the two guys at the helm to share a brief glance or nod in reaction to what they're seeing. I did like the 'viewscreen' joke where macfarlane gets the alien captain to step to his right slightly.

Goodshape

Goodshape wrote: »

I was annoyed though that they had one of the characters comment on it. Was almost a lovely little bit of background humour.

Quickly went from a high-point of the episode (the awkward background lols) to a low-point ("hey, did you see that dog licking his balls?" –– goddamn it yes, we did. We got it. Not idiots).

Absolutely agree.

It would have been absolutely hilarious if they had just ignored it and carried on.

_Kaiser_

Just watched episode 2 and after a bit of a ropey start

with Alara

, it picked up pretty well I thought, though

the scene with his parents on the viewscreen went on too long

Title sequence is straight out of Voyager.

DMcL1971

Pretty risky move ripping off

TOS: The Cage

like that, could anger a few old school fans. I'm not finding it funny at all.

_Kaiser_

I don't think it's actually supposed to be a comedy, but was billed that way by the network because of MacFarlane's other shows (Family Guy etc). The humor was a lot more subdued this week I thought, and all the better for it.

degrassinoel

yeah, seems it's not just a pisstake show.. it's alright though

This episode was a lot better than the first. As I mentioned over in the TV forum thread, it feels a lot more close to Star Gate than Star Trek. Not necessarily a bad thing, but the campiness and the overall tone remind me more of something like SG1 or Atlantis.

Ray Purchase

Watched a bit of this with very low expectations so I wasn't really disappointed. It's just weird. The tone is all over the place and Seth McFarlene, monumentally talented though he is, just doesn't work as a lead character.

pixelburp

Caught the second episode and this show really is a bit all over the place & more than a touch pointless. The comedy not particularly to the forefront to make it a proper sitcom (or all that funny anyway), the same then for the drama so you just get this weird 40 minute hybrid that's trying to both play it straight & for laughs at the same time. It just doesn't work.

And as much a broken record as it is to say, McFarlane is the biggest flaw: the story doesn't need his 'outsider looking in' schtick, and doesn't make any sense anyway. If the show was pitched more towards absurdist & OTT future-visions ala Futurama, then his blather would make sense, but this is supposed to be a multi-species utopia; his snarky commentary just feels like the script poking me into laughing because - har har - an alien-man laying an egg is HIGH-larious :rolleyes:

Goodshape

That new-starship smell fades pretty fast. I didn't like episode two at all!

I agree with pixelburb, too much of the "'outsider looking in' schtick" in this one. Captain of a multi-species crew in a futuristic multi-planetary utopia, but...

Oh, you lay... eggs??... WOW O_O... uhhhh... geeez. That's uh... wow. Awkward.

Similar to the dog licking it's balls in ep1. It could have been funny if it weren't spelled out for us.


I'll still be tuning in though. Hardly the worst thing on TV.

Slydice

Did I mention Kasidy Yates needs to be Captain.

Slydice wrote: »

Kasidy Yates needs to be Captain.

oh yes, yes I did

Greyjoy

pixelburp wrote: »

And as much a broken record as it is to say, McFarlane is the biggest flaw: the story doesn't need his 'outsider looking in' schtick, and doesn't make any sense anyway.

Yeah Macfarlane's 'outsider' running commentary could wear very thin. If Mercer was fresh out of the academy on his first voyage then the writers could get away with that. But he's supposed to be an experienced captain - his reaction to Bortus's announcement shouldn't have been astonishment but something like "Oh right - you guys lay eggs, I forgot".

Slydice

The Doctor (Kasidy Yates) really feels like such a presence in the show next to the fresher cast members.

Decent episode.

You know, I think

Bortus's Moclan race reminds me of the Alien in Enemy Mine

:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089092/mediaviewer/rm101420544

_Kaiser_

Just watched the third one there now and it was actually pretty good and could easily have been lifted from TNG.

Music again continues to be very reminiscent of DS9/VOY too.

Goodshape

Episode 3 was good! very TNG, and notably more serious in tone than the previous two I thought. Not Kasidy Yates and Captain Comedy both got to do some serious moral-leader stuff and actually managed to pull it off quite well.

I see it was directed by Brennan Brega too.

pah

Is not bad. Had a couple of laugh out loud moments in ep 3 that felt less forced than other weeks.

A vagina can't have a lisp, well depending on how you use it.

AMKC

Goodshape wrote: »

That new-starship smell fades pretty fast. I didn't like episode two at all!

I agree with pixelburb, too much of the "'outsider looking in' schtick" in this one. Captain of a multi-species crew in a futuristic multi-planetary utopia, but...

Oh, you lay... eggs??... WOW O_O... uhhhh... geeez. That's uh... wow. Awkward.

Similar to the dog licking it's balls in ep1. It could have been funny if it weren't spelled out for us.


I'll still be tuning in though. Hardly the worst thing on TV.

Is it on TV yet? and if not any idea when?

squonk

I thought episode three was surprisingly strong. Veered into TNG territory But was a little too direct for trek. Good to see them trying and that it’s not just a vehicle for Seth to act the idiot

Manic Moran

I think that's the way to look at this show.. Average Joe in space.. not trained, disciplined Starfleet officers

That's what I liked about it as well. The banter at the helm after the CO leaves just reminds me so much of what I know my crew would be doing as soon as I got out of the tank, or what my Troop would say to each other when I was the commander. And it had the right level of humour for such a discussion.

I'm enjoying it, by and large.

Greyjoy

I'd agree that the show finally seems to have found its feet with ep3. With a few tweaks it could have been an episode from TNG. I liked the fact that Mercer had doubts over whether they were right in how they treated Bortus's request.

degrassinoel

wow, honestly, this episode was better than the first two new trek ones.
Didnt expect it to end the way it did either reminded me of Worf in TNG's episode where he's stripped of honour, house and titles by the council.

stronglikebull

Goodshape wrote: »

Similar to the dog licking it's balls in ep1. It could have been funny if it weren't spelled out for us.

Rather than it being a case of spelling out the joke, I took that to be a case of them showing how normal people would react to the dog in the background of the video-comms. You'd never get that on shows like Star Trek, casual conversation between crew-mates, etc. Like Malloy having to go to the toilet, it's one of those ordinary moments that you just don't get on Starships.

Episode 3 certainly turned up the tone of the show though. Quite a different and more serious story line. Very well done, I thought. I'd say this is doing better than the first two episodes of Discovery, IMO anyway.

I really just wish they'd drop the marriage running gag already.

Wedwood

Not sure what to make of that. Oh, now I know, MacFarlane has become the new Adam Sandler !!!

Looks like one of those movies Sandler now makes for Netflix, hard to believe that's getting a cinema release.

degrassinoel

stronglikebull wrote: »

Rather than it being a case of spelling out the joke, I took that to be a case of them showing how normal people would react to the dog in the background of the video-comms. You'd never get that on shows like Star Trek, casual conversation between crew-mates, etc. Like Malloy having to go to the toilet, it's one of those ordinary moments that you just don't get on Starships.

Episode 3 certainly turned up the tone of the show though. Quite a different and more serious story line. Very well done, I thought. I'd say this is doing better than the first two episodes of Discovery, IMO anyway.

Cassidy called it for what it is here too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSN3WT-r20U

silverharp

funny how critics give it 20% and audience 89%

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/orville/

pixelburp

silverharp wrote: »

funny how critics give it 20% and audience 89%

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/orville/

Where does that "audience" come from though? Seems to me like the inherent flaw with any 'customer' style ratings on the internet is that they equate to "audience who actually bothered signing-up, rating the show". That's always going to be lopsided towards any groups of people with either a very strong, or very negative reaction. Or else you get weird outliers like review bombing. Disinterested, broadly anti/apathetic viewers by their nature aren't going to vote.

silverharp

pixelburp wrote: »

Where does that "audience" come from though? Seems to me like the inherent flaw with any 'customer' style ratings on the internet is that they equate to "audience who actually bothered signing-up, rating the show". That's always going to be lopsided towards any groups of people with either a very strong, or very negative reaction. Or else you get weird outliers like review bombing. Disinterested, broadly anti/apathetic viewers by their nature aren't going to vote.

some value in lots of people not paid to write opinions, look at Ghostbusters below, the audience opinion would appear to be the more correct view of reality. I would say critics are subject to group think especially if there is something "fashionable" about the show/movie.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ghostbusters_2016

pixelburp

silverharp wrote: »

some value in lots of people not paid to write opinions, look at Ghostbusters below, the audience opinion would appear to be the more correct view of reality. I would say critics are subject to group think especially if there is something "fashionable" about the show/movie.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ghostbusters_2016

73% to 52% isn't as big a swing in opinion compared with the 20% to ~90% of The Orville; the latter is real Bovril levels if you take the scores at face values. Though as with all these things, I love the idea that opinions can be rationalised down to precise percentage points. As if it implies some dark science behind RottenTomatoes we're not privy to

I never said professional criticism was perfect: both groupings are flawed - everyone suffers from group think - but flawed for very different reasons. At the very least with this fashion of aggregators as some ultimate Source of Truth, there's a definite consensus with professional critics; whether you think that consensus is tainted or not is up to you. But audiences are just as prone to herd mentality as critics.

These audience figures though have absolutely no guarantee: like I said it's more likely you'll get motivated users (same with Ghostbusters really, given the mark it left on pop culture) than casual viewers - and with review bombing a thing, we can't even be sure everyone even watched the damn thing.

Did you add your score to RottenTomatoes? I haven't, nor ever, even with stuff I love! Maybe boards should start adding Polls to more popular shows, set up our own aggregator and see what this pool of viewers thinks...

As for this show? Orville ain't 20% bad, but it sure as heck aint 90% good either; there's no denying the love for a heavily cloned source, but ripping off the TNG-tinted glasses and it's flat & unoriginal. Having enjoyed ScyFy's summer fare (The Expanse, Dark Matter & Killjoys), the Orville feels ... weirdly anachronistic, but in a disingenuous way.

silverharp

pixelburp wrote: »

73% to 52% isn't as big a swing in opinion compared with the 20% to ~90% of The Orville; the latter is real Bovril levels if you take the scores at face values. Though as with all these things, I love the idea that opinions can be rationalised down to precise percentage points. As if it implies some dark science behind RottenTomatoes we're not privy to

I never said professional criticism was perfect: both groupings are flawed - everyone suffers from group think - but flawed for very different reasons. At the very least with this fashion of aggregators as some ultimate Source of Truth, there's a definite consensus with professional critics; whether you think that consensus is tainted or not is up to you. But audiences are just as prone to herd mentality as critics.

These audience figures though have absolutely no guarantee: like I said it's more likely you'll get motivated users (same with Ghostbusters really, given the mark it left on pop culture) than casual viewers - and with review bombing a thing, we can't even be sure everyone even watched the damn thing.

Did you add your score to RottenTomatoes? I haven't, nor ever, even with stuff I love! Maybe boards should start adding Polls to more popular shows, set up our own aggregator and see what this pool of viewers thinks...

As for this show? Orville ain't 20% bad, but it sure as heck aint 90% good either; there's no denying the love for a heavily cloned source, but ripping off the TNG-tinted glasses and it's flat & unoriginal. Having enjoyed ScyFy's summer fare (The Expanse, Dark Matter & Killjoys), the Orville feels ... weirdly anachronistic, but in a disingenuous way.

I don't think a particular % means much to the nearest 20% would get you bad, average, good etc.

Looking at the Orville v STD , what you can say is the critics prefer STD and the viewers prefer Orville. Maybe when both are done for series 1 one could agree who was right?

Optimus Prime

I stopped looking at critics\public reviews years ago, everyone has different tastes. Just ask yourself which one you are looking forward to the seeing the next episode of more. For me its the Orville, there are too many changes in discovery from established trek that annoy me. The Orville is a love letter to TNG. I think its great. Like a lot of others im tired of prequel trek.

Ive seen a lot of people going on about how you cant have a trek show set after voyager because its too limiting. i think this is hilarious, how many shows are churned out set on this planet alone and arent limiting!

degrassinoel

7.5 on imdb atm

it's gaining popularity per episode according to that.


Episode 4 was less dramatic than the third, some more belly laughs in it though, McFarlane is a really good writer when he's being serious, the gags are pretty good when they work.

couple of nice surprises in episode 4 all the same, spoilered just in case

The "hey don't i know you" bit to the guard had me in kinks, Liam Neeson appearing was a bit of a shock - as was the colonel from 'Space Above and Beyond'

it's a shame this is in competition with STD, if it had come out a year or two ago i'd say it'd have already established itself with a solid fanbase.

I'm looking forward to the next episode.

pah

A very solid episode 4. I like the balance of the trek feel with mcfarlanes humour. Serious big name cameo and some quality guest stars also in Robert Knepper and James Morrisson.