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Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    To those that say that they dont agree that with arresting or interogating or detaining people that are found to be watching ISIS propaganda and visit jihad related forums/sites('could be a journalist') and travel(led) to syria('could be a doctor or healthcare volunteer') and maý have ties to an ISIS recruiter ('could be childhood friend') and have been reported by family and friend for radical view/ comments, are in possession of perroxide (could be a trainie hairdresser)..

    At what point do you think this person can be questioned/arrested/held?

    Whèn the bomb has gone off?

    There are plausable explanations for each item listed above but when some one ticks multiple boxes they become a problem... also some one googling 'what is ISIS' is miles apart from 'how do i join ISIS'. Or loòking on wikipedia for jihad vs debating the merit of jehad on forums'

    Dont think ive seen it addressed yet.

    So a search history full of ISIS videos
    Signed up through several jihadi sites
    2 recent 7day trips to Mossul
    The local imhan has expressed concern on a persons view
    Bought 5 gallons of peroxide
    Contact with other perzons monitored as potential extremists
    The person is not a journalist or student or a hairdresser...

    People are good to let him be and monitor him a bit more?

    Really?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Originally Posted by GT_TDI_150
    To those that say that they dont agree that with arresting or interogating or detaining people that are found to be watching ISIS propaganda and visit jihad related forums/sites('could be a journalist') and travel(led) to syria('could be a doctor or healthcare volunteer') and ma? have ties to an ISIS recruiter ('could be childhood friend') and have been reported by family and friend for radical view/ comments, are in possession of perroxide (could be a trainie hairdresser)..

    At what point do you think this person can be questioned/arrested/held?

    Wh?n the bomb has gone off?

    There are plausable explanations for each item listed above but when some one ticks multiple boxes they become a problem... also some one googling 'what is ISIS' is miles apart from 'how do i join ISIS'. Or lo?king on wikipedia for jihad vs debating the merit of jehad on forums'

    The criminal justice system requires evidence of the act, not merely " thinking about it "

    certainly people can be interviewed etc, assuming they have appropriate legal protection and the presence of independent legal council.

    going any further is simply going to lead to persecution of innocents and the rise of the police state ( if it isnt here already )


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    BoatMad wrote: »
    [QUOTE:Originally Posted by GT_TDI_150]
    To those that say that they dont agree that with arresting or interogating or detaining people that are found to be watching ISIS propaganda and visit jihad related forums/sites('could be a journalist') and travel(led) to syria('could be a doctor or healthcare volunteer') and ma? have ties to an ISIS recruiter ('could be childhood friend') and have been reported by family and friend for radical view/ comments, are in possession of perroxide (could be a trainie hairdresser)..

    At what point do you think this person can be questioned/arrested/held?

    Wh?n the bomb has gone off?

    There are plausable explanations for each item listed above but when some one ticks multiple boxes they become a problem... also some one googling 'what is ISIS' is miles apart from 'how do i join ISIS'. Or lo?king on wikipedia for jihad vs debating the merit of jehad on forums'[/ QUOTE]

    The criminal justice system requires evidence of the act, not merely " thinking about it "

    certainly people can be interviewed etc, assuming they have appropriate legal protection and the presence of independent legal council.

    going any further is simply going to lead to persecution of innocents and the rise of the police state ( if it isnt here already )

    So why is there such a thing as chemical castration?

    When an offender has served their time the are starting with a clean slate...

    Stopping them from acting on urges again presumes them guilty of future offences because they might think of doing it...

    Unfortunatly when a jihadi extremist thinks about bombing a place, we cant prevent him from doing it a second time


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    So why is there such a thing as chemical castration?

    When an offender has served their time the are starting with a clean slate...

    Stopping them from acting on urges again presumes them guilty of future offences because they might think of doing it...

    Unfortunatly when a jihadi extremist thinks about bombing a place, we cant prevent him from doing it a second time

    As far as Im aware forced chemical castration is only practised in a handful of countries. It is an abhorrent concept in my opinion and has no place in a civil society . IN that regards I view the death penalty the same way
    Stopping them from acting on urges again presumes them guilty of future offences because they might think of doing it...

    almost the definition of " thought crime" and the very idea should be again abhorrent to any decent civil society.

    Unfortunatly when a jihadi extremist thinks about bombing a place, we cant prevent him from doing it a second time

    You seem completely unable to fathom that if we sought to fix the underlying issues , then ,maybe we'd have no Jihadis in the first place


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    BoatMad wrote: »
    As far as Im aware forced chemical castration is only practised in a handful of countries. It is an abhorrent concept in my opinion and has no place in a civil society . IN that regards I view the death penalty the same way



    almost the definition of " thought crime" and the very idea should be again abhorrent to any decent civil society.




    You seem completely unable to fathom that if we sought to fix the underlying issues , then ,maybe we'd have no Jihadis in the first place
    You seem to think that if the west werent bombing in the ME that there would be no muslim extremists


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I would prefer to place my society and myself in harms way , then to submit to further erosions of civil liberty

    If we have to die for our freedoms, so be it, we died for them before

    Eroding civil liberties in an inane attempt to buy security is the sign of a collapsing society where fear rules and the innocent are usually the next to be persecuted ( internment etc )

    Thanks but no thank s

    But what gives you the right to make those decisions for others? I'm willing to bet that bereaved or injured people in Manchester, and other places, would be very, very happy to give unfettered access to their phones, computers and homes, if it would prevent other people suffering the same fate.

    There are clear and obvious risks attached to the erosion of civil liberties. Risks that I would normally not consider vaguely acceptable.

    But the present situation is not acceptable, either.

    So, I think the discussion needs to be had.

    How can we adequately monitor ISIS internet activity, while preserving our freedoms?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    You seem to think that if the west werent bombing in the ME that there would be no muslim extremists

    ask yourself when Jihadi style attacks came to public prominence in the West. I dont seem to remember them bombing Europe in the 80s


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    The problem for the extremists is that they dont agree with our way of living yet chose to live here and feel like social oucasts within their own erhnic community(as they cant accept that the majority do settle and adjust) and the wider community as they live in contradiction to their strong (warped) believes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    But what gives you the right to make those decisions for others? I'm willing to bet that bereaved or injured people in Manchester, and other places, would be very, very happy to give unfettered access to their phones, computers and homes, if it would prevent other people suffering the same fate.

    There are clear and obvious risks attached to the erosion of civil liberties. Risks that I would normally not consider vaguely acceptable.

    But the present situation is not acceptable, either.

    So, I think the discussion needs to be had.

    How can we adequately monitor ISIS internet activity, while preserving our freedoms?

    I cant only give you my perspective , I cannot speak for anyone else. I can certainly argue my point.
    How can we adequately monitor ISIS internet activity, while preserving our freedoms?

    Indeed , I accept it is a challenge, But I would suggest that perhaps, rather like Northern Ireland, where a security oriented solution was ultimately deemed unworkable, we look at the cause of Islamic radicalism and seek to ameliorate that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    I'm not sure a trainee hairdresser would have five gallons of peroxide, and what they did have probably wouldn't be particularly strong peroxide, either. A hair salon might, but not one individual. At a guess.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    we are told, only 0.001% of the population are involved in terrorism, be it directly or majorly indirectly.

    there is no logic on the planet that should or could accept the current threats to every innocent person in the world at risk of upsetting that 0.001%.

    you call it freedom, i call it standing up to terrorism and keeping our people and children safe.

    0.001% nonsense ,
    i call it standing up to terrorism and keeping our people and children safe

    perhaps , just like NI, keeping our children safe , meant we " talk to terrorists " or at the very least stop bombing the sh1t out of their country and killing thousands of innocents including children, or have you had your head in the sand since " Desert storm"

    of course " our" children " are obviously more valuable then " their" children !!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    BoatMad wrote: »
    0.001% nonsense ,



    perhaps , just like NI, keeping our children safe , meant we " talk to terrorists " or at the very least stop bombing the sh1t out of their country and killing thousands of innocents including children, or have you had your head in the sand since " Desert storm"

    of course " our" children " are obviously more valuable then " their" children !!!

    But no one has been bombing the sh1t out of the UK as many on here keep saying the people committing these atrocities are European born


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Help!!!! wrote: »
    But no one has been bombing the sh1t out of the UK as many on here keep saying the people committing these atrocities are European born

    yes but radicalised by the conflict in the ME

    its not like they are Latvians bombing the UK, They are people with strong cultural links to the ME

    rather like an PIRA from Kerry bombing Londin etc. Its the radicalisation thats the issue , not where he or she was born


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I cant only give you my perspective , I cannot speak for anyone else. I can certainly argue my point.



    Indeed , I accept it is a challenge, But I would suggest that perhaps, rather like Northern Ireland, where a security oriented solution was ultimately deemed unworkable, we look at the cause of Islamic radicalism and seek to ameliorate that

    Who's "We"?

    Because I don't support bombing campaigns in the Middle East, but I'm not convinced that they would make any difference to ISIS support if they stopped in the morning.

    Neither am I convinced that they are the sole motivation for new recruits.

    Think about it. There seems to be a pattern.

    Again, and again, we see young men, often with a criminal history, or history of drug use.

    They experience "conversion", but never to any moderate faith, always an extreme one. And another suicide bomber is created.

    That being the case, it's obvious that disaffected young men are being targeted for recruitment, and if it wasn't bombs in the middle east that was used for motivation, it would be something else.

    That might be passages from the Koran, or historical wrongs - or, basically, whatever the recruiter could find that resonated with the young man in question.

    Even if the motivation is bombing the M.E (and I'm sure it is, some of the time anyway!) - we can't undo the bombs that have already fallen.

    We can't rewrite History.

    Hell, I've read posts on this forum condemning Catholics for the crusades, and the posts weren't written by Muslims, or Arabs - and modern Catholics are certainly not responsible for the Crusades.

    All that is before we even get around to discussing the level of knowledge people really have about what happens in these conflicts, and how much power people really have to affect how their Governments behave, and the answer to both is very little, tbh.

    So, we're back to, "Do we sit and do nothing, or do we try to find a solution?"

    Because hand wringing is going to achieve SFA, no matter how much we dislike the choices made by various Governments, or how little we can trust them, for that matter!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    Help!!!! wrote: »
    But no one has been bombing the sh1t out of the UK as many on here keep saying the people committing these atrocities are European born

    Europe born but identify as libians or syrian or morrocan or turks or ..

    Some of these lads are 2 or even 3rd generation **insert european counrty** but still identify as soley being from the country their (grand) parent hailed from...

    The moderate and integrated muslims refer to themselves as for example belgiuan or belgian morrocan òr french tunisian...

    Those that refuse to recognise they have a connecgion with their birth country are the problems...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Because I don't support bombing campaigns in the Middle East, but I'm not convinced that they would make any difference to ISIS support if they stopped in the morning.

    perhaps its too late, but the fact remains, we( the collective West ) are being targeted because of our recent and continuing involvement in the ME , and involvement that included and illegal invasion, the destabilisation of nation states, the arming and fermenting of revolution and the involved indiscriminate bombing and the death and maiming of thousands of innocents

    This isnt hand wringing , this is the reality
    Again, and again, we see young men, often with a criminal history, or history of drug use.

    They experience "conversion", but never to any moderate faith, always an extreme one. And another suicide bomber is created.

    anyone who is prepared to kill innocents in any conflict can be regarded as an " extremist " .

    as to the validity of their " conversion " ( your quotes ), I cant really comment. The fact remains that whatever convinced them its obviously powerful

    " Criminals" by and large dont become terrorists, its often intellectual types. but yes we have seen some with criminal behaviour but the vast majority have been distinguished by their ethnic and religious identification rather then anything else
    So, we're back to, "Do we sit and do nothing, or do we try to find a solution?"

    100% we try and find a solution , that solution has to contain bringing an end to the huge military action in the ME


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    Europe born but identify as libians or syrian or morrocan or turks or ..

    Some of these lads are 2 or even 3rd generation **insert european counrty** but still identify as soley being from the country their (grand) parent hailed from...

    The moderate and integrated muslims refer to themselves as for example belgiuan or belgian morrocan òr french tunisian...

    Those that refuse to recognise they have a connecgion with their birth country are the problems...

    radicalisation is a process, one of the bombers in paris , had once wished to join the french police. !!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    BoatMad wrote: »
    perhaps its too late, but the fact remains, we( the collective West ) are being targeted because of our recent and continuing involvement in the ME , and involvement that included and illegal invasion, the destabilisation of nation states, the arming and fermenting of revolution and the involved indiscriminate bombing and the death and maiming of thousands of innocents

    This isnt hand wringing , this is the reality



    anyone who is prepared to kill innocents in any conflict can be regarded as an " extremist " .

    as to the validity of their " conversion " ( your quotes ), I cant really comment. The fact remains that whatever convinced them its obviously powerful

    " Criminals" by and large dont become terrorists, its often intellectual types. but yes we have seen some with criminal behaviour but the vast majority have been distinguished by their ethnic and religious identification rather then anything else



    100% we try and find a solution , that solution has to contain bringing an end to the huge military action in the ME

    It is the reality, yes.
    The hand-wringing bit is where we blame the bombing of the middle East, and ignore the fact that British/French/German/Swedish, or A.N. Other victims are just as innocent as those killed in the Middle East.

    We've seen several attackers with criminal histories, or a history of drug and/or alcohol abuse.

    I'd agree with bringing an end to military action in the Middle East (though exactly how innocent people there should then be protected from their own Governments/Military/Militias is problematic), but good luck with trying to persuade the relevant Governments of that fact.

    The reality is they're not going to listen to you, or to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,680 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    http://news.sky.com/story/portland-attack-heroes-killed-stopping-anti-muslim-attacker-10895960

    Was going to have this in seperate thread, but felt AH might be bit overtaken with Scum killing people over Religion.

    This "White Supremacist" or basically a lowlife scum bag trying killing Muslims is also not right.

    Yet again innocent people being killed.

    If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your state, it probably means you built your state on my land.

    EVENFLOW



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    http://news.sky.com/story/portland-attack-heroes-killed-stopping-anti-muslim-attacker-10895960

    Was going to have this in seperate thread, but felt AH might be bit overtaken with Scum killing people over Religion.

    This "White Supremacist" or basically a lowlife scum bag trying killing Muslims is also not right.

    Yet again innocent people being killed.

    Absolutely.

    There is no excuse for killing innocent people. It's not acceptable.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    It is the reality, yes.
    The hand-wringing bit is where we blame the bombing of the middle East, and ignore the fact that British/French/German/Swedish, or A.N. Other victims are just as innocent as those killed in the Middle East.

    We've seen several attackers with criminal histories, or a history of drug and/or alcohol abuse.

    I'd agree with bringing an end to military action in the Middle East (though exactly how innocent people there should then be protected from their own Governments/Military/Militias is problematic), but good luck with trying to persuade the relevant Governments of that fact.

    The reality is they're not going to listen to you, or to me.

    The last line is why terrorists exist


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    How did foreign policy of Britain force Didsbury Mosque to host Speakers who call for the killing of Gays, Jews, Atheists, the need for women to be beaten by their husbands.

    Until those who point out that the Foreign Policy stinks start pointing out that the views and attitudes that are significant in Islam and among a large no. of Muslims are completely opposed to even the most basic idea of a free or progressive society then people will continue to just ignore you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    Trump_Wall wrote: »
    Comparing the IRA with ISIS is a grave and inaccurate folly.

    I merely mentioned the IRA to show that the 0.001% stat is way off ... it would indicate ONLY 30-40 people in Ireland are directly or indirectly linked to terrorism.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    So people go to syria to fight along side/for ISIS and we should be concerned about how any of our actions affect their civil liberties?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 Trump_Wall


    We have to be nuanced, though.

    Usually the truth lurks in between two radically opposing views. The idea that Islamic terror would dry up the second that the West withdraws is absurd. Islamic terror would invariably continue; the Islamists would merely move on to their next demand.

    At the same time, though, the idea that foreign policy has no link to Islamic terror is just as absurd. Ill-considered Western intervention is not the cause of Islamic terror but, when done improperly, can lead to power vacuums where Islamic terror can metastasize further.

    Foreign policy is a small but not insignificant cog in this debate. Let's not lurch to either extreme stance based on the bias of our political outlook - be it Left or Right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Danzy wrote: »
    How did foreign policy of Britain force Didsbury Mosque to host Speakers who call for the killing of Gays, Jews, Atheists, the need for women to be beaten by their husbands.

    Until those who point out that the Foreign Policy stinks start pointing out that the views and attitudes that are significant in Islam and among a large no. of Muslims are completely opposed to even the most basic idea of a free or progressive society then people will continue to just ignore you.

    The position of radical Islam on Gays, women,is unchanged ,before and after the current ME crisis

    IN that regard it has nothing to do with it. The treatment of such peoples in countries largely ruled by Sharia law is for those people to work out,

    A Free and progressive society only applies to " us " , its not for us to decide someone else should be forcefully " be free and progressive ". Such cultural attitudes are in fact colonialism in disguise

    Muslims have been practising Sharia law for a long time, however they have only recently began terror campaigns of any magnitude in Europe in recent years , you might ask yourself what events are co-incident with that ???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Trump_Wall wrote: »
    We have to be nuanced, though.

    Usually the truth lurks in between two radically opposing views. I idea that Islamic terror would dry up the second that the West withdraws is absurd. Islamic terror would invariably continue; the Islamists would merely move on to their next demand.

    At the same time, though, the idea that foreign policy has no link to Islamic terror is just as absurd. Ill-considered Western intervention is not the cause of Islamic terror but, when done improperly, can lead to power vacuums where Islamic terror can nurture.

    Foreign policy is a small but not insignificant cog in this debate. Let's not lurch to either extreme stance based on the bias of our political outlook - be it Left or Right.

    Well put


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Trump_Wall wrote: »
    We have to be nuanced, though.
    Usually the truth lurks in between two radically opposing views. I idea that Islamic terror would dry up the second that the West withdraws is absurd. Islamic terror would invariably continue; the Islamists would merely move on to their next demand.

    There is actually no evidence to support that claim. A solution in the ME , a detente between Shia and Sunni, largely enforced by Iraq and Saudi and th realisation that the creation if a Arab Homeland may have too be realised , would largely deal with the vast majority of issues. As would a Kurdish homeland

    Reestablishing law and order in Libya would also remove many issues

    At the same time, though, the idea that foreign policy has no link to Islamic terror is just as absurd. Ill-considered Western intervention is not the cause of Islamic terror but, when done improperly, can lead to power vacuums where Islamic terror can nurture.
    destroying two Muslim countries and destabilising several others tends to have well... destabilising effects
    Foreign policy is a small but not insignificant cog in this debate. Let's not lurch to either extreme stance based on the bias of our political outlook - be it Left or Right.

    US foreign policy and the desire to destabilise the old Soviet client states is largely behind almost all the issues we are dealing with. This is the problem when one nation has a military force bigger then the next 5 adversaries , it simply cant avoid not flexing its muscles , usually with disastrous results for the rest of us .

    Its hard not to come to a conclusion that Europe is paying a price for aiding and abetting a colonial style US foreign policy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Absolutely.

    There is no excuse for killing innocent people. It's not acceptable.

    The 2 men who stood up for those Muslim girls and were brutally murdered for it are heroes.

    One of them was a Republican too. That gives tremendous hope for humanity.

    Yet we have silence here when a Christian terrorist murders 2 people in cold-blood (and yes he's a Christian terrorist he has multiple social media posts about fighting for Jesus Christ the Lord).

    Absolute crickets from people on this thread about it. Where are the calls for white communities to do more to report far-right/Christian terrorists? Where are the calls for internment of known far-right risks?

    All we have is stunning hypocrisy.

    In America you're 6 times more likely to be murdered for being a Muslim than you are to be murdered by a Muslim.

    Then people wonder why the conditions to breed extremism exist....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,525 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Trump_Wall wrote: »
    Comparing the IRA with ISIS is a grave and inaccurate folly.

    The IRA had, for all their faults, a political goal that sought to end discrimination in the North - the objective of which was a United Ireland. So yes, it was possible to engage with IRA leaders for precisely this reason; as the root motivation of the problem was purely political in nature.

    In contrast, ISIS have an overtly religious motivation and goal. They seek to reinstate the Caliphate on a global scale and, due to their interpretation of Q'uranic scripture, justify the obliteration of every type of Muslim and non-Muslim that does not align with their theocratic beliefs. As their modus operandi is purely religious in nature, they are quite literally impossible to negotiate with (unless the negotiator was God himself).

    Political Islam is not a recent phenomenon. It goes well back to the 1920s and 1930s, with the Muslim Brotherhood and other groups. The movement has waxed and waned over the decades since, but the idea of limiting our focus to March 2003 and beyond is illusory and ignorant in the extreme. ISIS, and their affiliate groups, demand the end of Western intervention because they themselves want to intervene in those countries.

    To deal with the problem, we must have a three-pronged approach.

    First, Western intervention in the Middle East and North Africa should cease - not because ISIS and other groups demand it, but because our interventions have proved futile and ill-considered.

    Second, we need to protect our own populations with a strict immigration policy. Not a policy that excludes Muslims, but a policy that serves to integrate minority populations at a sustainable and realistic rate. We mustn't add to the problem we have. Given that radicalization is rampant in many schools, mosques and prisons, greater monitoring needs to take place.

    Third, we must reinstate treason. Anyone who has been shown to have more-than-direct links with ISIS and affiliate organizations should be tried before a court of law. If found guilty (and if they are a British citizen, in the case of the UK), they should be imprisoned for treason. Those who departed for Syria should have their passports removed and they should not be allowed to return to the UK. Citizens not from the UK, if found treasonous, should be deported to their country of origin.

    While the problem will remain a long and perennial one, there is no quick and easy solution. The European populations are ahead of the politicians on this question; it's just a matter of time before the politicians catch up. Unfortunately, much of the damage - a la Merkel - has already been done. Nonetheless, by taking the above steps, and recognizing the threat as theocratic and not purely political in motivation, we can frame our efforts in the right way and make the effort that society is sorely waiting for.


    treason is redundant and isn't needed. it never was needed actually. those who departed for syria have to be allowed to return to the uk otherwise they put the rest of the world at risk. should they not be and they attack another country, that country will then have the right to seek reparations from britain or do whatever necessary to avenge, as it will be britain's fault they have been attacked. britain must be forced to clean up it's own mess.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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