So why don't most Travellers.......

C Montgomery Gurns II

.....speak Irish?

Jesus, I'd say the PC mob had their flaming sticks and pitchforks sharpened for a righteous display of virtue signalling when they saw that title.


Honest question though. From what I recall from school history, Irish started to die out post famine as school enrollment increased, because proficiency in English was required for employment in coveted state jobs (police, civil service, post, railways), coupled with the fact so many Irish people would need to emigrate to an English speaking country.

With Travellers presumably having even less engagement with the schools system than they do now, and generally keeping to themselves socially, as now, how and when did it ever come about that they started speaking English on a regular basis? I know that back then they earned their living as odd job men and season farm labourers, but these are jobs that require precious little talk (anyone who has worked in the construction game will tell you how work can get done with barely a common language between some staff). Coupled with the fact that most of the transitional generation which used English on a conversational basis would still have been fuent in Irish (even today, from my experience most people over 60 have quite good conversational Irish, it is the newer generations that are useless at it) what was the factor that bridged the gap? They managed to maintain a largely common accent, slang, traditions etc, at what point did they adopt English, and why?

Masala

...... pay Taxes

Nabber

Travellers go to school.
Travellers are into all sorts of business.
English is the language of business

PistolsAtDawn

Theres no point screaming instructions as Gaeilge during a robbery, sure most of the victims wouldn't be able to understand you!

RustyNut

Because they Cant

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

uck51js9zml2yt

RustyNut wrote: »

Because they Cant

I can't either....the only traveling I do is on holidays:)

The_Valeyard

Greyson Flabby Mafioso wrote: »

I can't either....the only traveling I do is on holidays:)

Or work.

please helpThank YOU

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »

.....speak Irish?

Jesus, I'd say the PC mob had their flaming sticks and pitchforks sharpened for a righteous display of virtue signalling when they saw that title.


Honest question though. From what I recall from school history, Irish started to die out post famine as school enrollment increased, because proficiency in English was required for employment in coveted state jobs (police, civil service, post, railways), coupled with the fact so many Irish people would need to emigrate to an English speaking country.

With Travellers presumably having even less engagement with the schools system than they do now, and generally keeping to themselves socially, as now, how and when did it ever come about that they started speaking English on a regular basis? I know that back then they earned their living as odd job men and season farm labourers, but these are jobs that require precious little talk (anyone who has worked in the construction game will tell you how work can get done with barely a common language between some staff). Coupled with the fact that most of the transitional generation which used English on a conversational basis would still have been fuent in Irish (even today, from my experience most people over 60 have quite good conversational Irish, it is the newer generations that are useless at it) what was the factor that bridged the gap? They managed to maintain a largely common accent, slang, traditions etc, at what point did they adopt English, and why?

:cool: Most of the Irish Travelers went to England to learn the queens English and are very rich successful people just have to look at `Rathkeale co Limerick most of the boys are millionaires well done boys.

C Montgomery Gurns II

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I've seen that on Wiki, but I read elsewhere it was more a dialect of heavy slang English. Like calling cockney a language when really it is just a unique, slang filled way of speaking.

The_Valeyard

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »

I've seen that on Wiki, but I read elsewhere it was more a dialect of heavy slang English. Like calling cockney a language when really it is just a unique, slang filled way of speaking.

Ah it's not Jive now.

Dtp1979

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

:cool: Most of the Irish Travelers went to England to learn the queens English and are very rich successful people just have to look at `Rathkeale co Limerick most of the boys are millionaires well done boys.

We'd all be rich if we didn't pay tax

please helpThank YOU

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Gammon that is surname in rathkeale co .Limerick

Effects

Dtp1979 wrote: »

We'd all be rich if we didn't pay tax

No we wouldn't.

Erik Shin

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »

I've seen that on Wiki, but I read elsewhere it was more a dialect of heavy slang English. Like calling cockney a language when really it is just a unique, slang filled way of speaking.

Tap the cunig for a Flem sham

Mixture of Irish, English and their hybrid

Galwayguy35

Nabber wrote: »

Travellers go to school.
Travellers are into all sorts of business.
English is the language of business

All sorts of business you say.

And what would they be?

Dtp1979

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

All sorts of business you say.

And what would they be?

no answers for that. Unexplainable. Same way they can drive 171 jeeps, build huge houses, avoid taxes, all while unemployed. Same way they don't have to justify any of it to anyone

please helpThank YOU

The boys in Rathkeale co Limerick are `Minted in Money. ,The drive brand new 2017 Mercedes, BMW, Porsche 911,Lamborghini, the lot all English reg cars . So I take my hat off to them well done boys for showing Ireland the two fingers.

PistolsAtDawn

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Theres no point screaming instructions as Gaeilge during a robbery, sure most of the victims wouldn't be able to understand you!

Dead right, that's why when I go in I'm all like... Daj mi Twoje pieniądze!!!

Sleeper12

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:

Jesus, I'd say the PC mob had their flaming sticks and pitchforks sharpened for a righteous display of virtue signalling when they saw that title.

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:

Honest question though. From what I recall from school history, Irish started to die out post famine as school enrollment increased, because proficiency in English was required for employment in coveted state jobs (police, civil service, post, railways), coupled with the fact so many Irish people would need to emigrate to an English speaking country.

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:

With Travellers presumably having even less engagement with the schools system than they do now, and generally keeping to themselves socially, as now, how and when did it ever come about that they started speaking English on a regular basis? I know that back then they earned their living as odd job men and season farm labourers, but these are jobs that require precious little talk (anyone who has worked in the construction game will tell you how work can get done with barely a common language between some staff). Coupled with the fact that most of the transitional generation which used English on a conversational basis would still have been fuent in Irish (even today, from my experience most people over 60 have quite good conversational Irish, it is the newer generations that are useless at it) what was the factor that bridged the gap? They managed to maintain a largely common accent, slang, traditions etc, at what point did they adopt English, and why?

Travellers have their unique language. It's one of the reasons why they are recognised as a unique ethnic group

Yourself isit

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Travellers have their unique language. It's one of the reasons why they are recognised as a unique ethnic group

It's not Irish though. It's an English dialect.

Edit wiki sez:

Linguistically Shelta is today seen as a mixed language that stems from a community of travelling people in Ireland that was originally predominantly Irish-speaking. The community later went through a period of widespread bilingualism that resulted in a language based heavily on Hiberno-English with heavy influences from Irish.[5] As different varieties of Shelta display different degrees of anglicisation (see below), it is hard to determine the extent of the Irish substratum. The Oxford Companion to the English Language puts it at 2,000–3,000 words.[4]

Which also answers the op's question. Travellers speak hiberno-english - just more than the rest of us.

riffmongous

I remember the Cant song from Love/Hate, I couldnt understand a single word of it

C Montgomery Gurns II

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Travellers have their unique language. It's one of the reasons why they are recognised as a unique ethnic group

So how come it isn't written, or I've never heard anyone speak it? Granted Travellers use a great deal of slang, certain words of which have even been adopted by settled people in places (I've heard plenty of Dubs and Nordies refer to people as shams before, people use terms like "feekin" and "bures", and down Wexford way your missus is commonly known as your "lack", for just a few examples) but I'd class that as more a dialect than a language.

Damien360

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Or work.

The vast majority do actually work and work hard. The problem is officially they don't so pay no taxes. That would be fine if the rest of us didn't have to prop up the lifestyle.

riffmongous

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »

So how come it isn't written, or I've never heard anyone speak it? Granted Travellers use a great deal of slang, certain words of which have even been adopted by settled people in places (I've heard plenty of Dubs and Nordies refer to people as shams before, people use terms like "feekin" and "bures", and down Wexford way your missus is commonly known as your "lack", for just a few examples) but I'd class that as more a dialect than a language.

Here's the Love/Hate song, Lashún Gatna, starts around 11:30 https://soundcloud.com/poster-fish/jack-delaney-live-a

And the english lyrics (At least I think they are the lyrics, I dont understand a word)
https://ansionnachfionn.com/2013/07/18/lashun-gatna-beautiful-child/

BalcombeSt4

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

All sorts of business you say.

And what would they be?

Gardening, Sports, Stocks & Bonds, Construction, Performance Art, Music, Military, Politics, Health Care etc...

please helpThank YOU

How ` You `Boss,

andekwarhola

....travel?

CeilingFly

... Stop shoplifting

Sleeper12

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:

So how come it isn't written, or I've never heard anyone speak it? Granted Travellers use a great deal of slang, certain words of which have even been adopted by settled people in places (I've heard plenty of Dubs and Nordies refer to people as shams before, people use terms like "feekin" and "bures", and down Wexford way your missus is commonly known as your "lack", for just a few examples) but I'd class that as more a dialect than a language.

I have heard travellers speak their own language

The_Valeyard

Damien360 wrote: »

The vast majority do actually work and work hard. The problem is officially they don't so pay no taxes. That would be fine if the rest of us didn't have to prop up the lifestyle.

I meant the previous poster said his/her only travelling was on holidays, I added and also to work. Didnt mean travellers did not work. Sorry about that!