Crazy Phone Bill...Cancelling Direct Debit??

njs030

Masala wrote: »

So... for the rest of us lucky enought not to have this happen to us- is there a way we can contact Eir/ Vodafone / Three etc to put a 'limit' / 'stop' on our phones to stop this happening!!!

Would absolutely ruin me financially if I had a €3000 bill arrive in my door....

When you lose your phone immediately call the lost/stolen phones helpline and have it blocked.
It's very simple.

Former Former

SB1988 wrote: »

I would say it was 24 hours between the time I noticed it lost, but it would have been 36 hours from the time it was actually lost according to the call log...

By the time I noticed it was missing the damage was already done...

OK I know this is great with hindsight, but waiting 24 hours to report a missing phone is crazy.

I see people telling you to complain to COMREG, I'm not sure how this will help, I don't think you really have any grounds to complain.

Your only hope is to try to come to sort of compromise with Vodafone. You can try non-payment but it's going to be a lot of hassle and stress for you.

Carlos Orange

Former Former wrote: »

I see people telling you to complain to COMREG, I'm not sure how this will help, I don't think you really have any grounds to complain.

I don't know if Comreg will be much help but he should talk to them to at least know their stance on what happened. Obviously he could have reported it stolen quicker but 24 one hour calls to the same number sounds more like organised criminal activity than a stolen phone being used as a phone and that is something telecoms networks should (imo) be obliged to clamp down on not something they should be getting a margin on.

AngryLips

Masala wrote: »

So... for the rest of us lucky enought not to have this happen to us- is there a way we can contact Eir/ Vodafone / Three etc to put a 'limit' / 'stop' on our phones to stop this happening!!!

Would absolutely ruin me financially if I had a €3000 bill arrive in my door....

You should ask the NSA to do it since they would have way more experience snooping on your calls than Vodafone.

njs030

psinno wrote: »

I don't know if Comreg will be much help but he should talk to them to at least know their stance on what happened. Obviously he could have reported it stolen quicker but 24 one hour calls to the same number sounds more like organised criminal activity than a stolen phone being used as a phone and that is something telecoms networks should (imo) be obliged to clamp down on not something they should be getting a margin on.

Organised criminal activity? You are aware all criminals use phones and companies still charge them?

Carlos Orange

notjustsweet wrote: »

Organised criminal activity? You are aware all criminals use phones and companies still charge them?

It could be that whoever stole the phone wanted to talk to someone in Africa for 24 hours continuously or it could be that they get a kickback from the ginormous phone bills they generate with stolen phones.

njs030

psinno wrote: »

It could be that whoever stole the phone wanted to talk to someone in Africa for 24 hours continuously or it could be that they get a kickback from the ginormous phone bills they generate with stolen phones.

Total speculation and none of which is relevant.
The op has a duty to report his phone as stolen, according to the t&c's he signed and I posted in the first page he agreed to pay any bill due until that time.
He didn't make the call for 36 hours during which time Vodafone flagged the problem and shut it down or he'd be in deeper trouble!

Op again-talk to them don't try to ignore it.

Discodog

The reason to report it to COMREG & go to Court if necessary, is because the OP acted reasonably & as the average person would. This can outweigh T&C's if the terms are unreasonable. Clearly Vodafone have an obligation to prevent such bills & provide 24/7 emergency reporting facilities. I am sure that they could have a system that stopped excessive use until, for example the user responded to a text with a pre agreed password.

If this went to Court I can imagine a judge ruling that the user acted responsibly. Vodafone know this too & that they are on a hiding to nothing.

njs030

Discodog wrote: »

The reason to report it to COMREG & go to Court if necessary, is because the OP acted reasonably & as the average person would. This can outweigh T&C's if the terms are unreasonable. Clearly Vodafone have an obligation to prevent such bills & provide 24/7 emergency reporting facilities. I am sure that they could have a system that stopped excessive use until, for example the user responded to a text with a pre agreed password.

If this went to Court I can imagine a judge ruling that the user acted responsibly. Vodafone know this too & that they are on a hiding to nothing.

How did he act responsibly?
He didn't report his phone stolen for 36 hours.
Vodafone do have 24 hour reporting facilities BTW.

Former Former

SB1988 wrote: »

I think your missing the point. What I am saying is that when they realised something was up, that they did not try make contact to confirm if it was me using. Of course I have a responsibility, but do they not also? Considering they are supposed to keep my details safe and secure, using my number without my approval does not seem like they did...

And I did not wait 36 hours, I was not aware til the following morning that it had gone missing, then we tried ringing it but it was dead why would I assume that my phone was still in use?

How would they make contact with you, except via your phone?

What details did they not keep safe?

How were Vodafone to know that it was not you using the phone?

The only person who knew the phone was gone was you, but you made a deliberate choice to do nothing and assume all would be well.

It's a very unfortunate situation but Vodafone are not to blame here.

njs030

SB1988 wrote: »

I think your missing the point. What I am saying is that when they realised something was up, that they did not try make contact to confirm if it was me using. Of course I have a responsibility, but do they not also? Considering they are supposed to keep my details safe and secure, using my number without my approval does not seem like they did...

And I did not wait 36 hours, I was not aware til the following morning that it had gone missing, then we tried ringing it but it was dead why would I assume that my phone was still in use?

Why would they contact you? They blocked your phone if it was you I think it's pretty obvious you'd be on the phone to them in seconds to have it unblocked.

According to your previous post you said it was 36 hours....even if it was 24 it's ridiculous.

Op you signed the terms and conditions saying you'd contact them and you didn't.


"They are supposed to keep my details safe" op YOU lost your phone!!!!
Data protection is the sharing of your personal information which they didn't do...

Discodog

notjustsweet wrote: »

How did he act responsibly?
He didn't report his phone stolen for 36 hours.
Vodafone do have 24 hour reporting facilities BTW.

It's about what the average person would do. It's reasonable that he wouldn't suspect it was stolen & thought that he lost it.

Your posts remind me of situations that I have had in the past where companies quote the T&Cs & then start to threaten with Court, costs, bad credit history etc. When all of this fails & they realise that you are happy to trust the matter to a Court, nothing happens.

Would Vodafone really want the bad publicity & the embarrassment of telling thieves how they operate ? It's the kind of story that Liveline & the Tabloids love. Poor consumer versus greedy multinational.

Discodog

SB1988 wrote: »

In my opinion this is similar to when someone steals your bank card and takes all your cash, how come you can claim that back but a phone bill is different? Its still your money being used...

And yes I am aware that banks are insured against that stuff!

You need to understand that Boards is a great place for friendly advice. But there will always be a few posters who will want to tell you what a naughty boy you have been & how you must take your punishment.

I think that the bank analogy is very good & I also think that a judge would be astonished that a phone company would allow you to run up thousands in debt. They can instantly block you for non payment etc & they have a long call history to go on so it should be easy for the computer to spot unusual use.

Of course it's easier to bully & intimidate the consumer especially as some will pay.

AngryLips

SB1988 wrote: »

In my opinion this is similar to when someone steals your bank card and takes all your cash, how come you can claim that back but a phone bill is different? Its still your money being used...

And yes I am aware that banks are insured against that stuff!

The difference is that banks are insured against such activity, whereas a mobile operator will offer the customer insurance for the same.

njs030

SB1988 wrote: »

In my opinion this is similar to when someone steals your bank card and takes all your cash, how come you can claim that back but a phone bill is different? Its still your money being used...

And yes I am aware that banks are insured against that stuff!

Have you called vodaphone and talked to them yet rather than arguing the point with strangers?

Like everyone has said they probably will try to help you lower the cost if you engage with them instead of ignoring them or going in with all guns blazing.

njs030

Discodog wrote: »

You need to understand that Boards is a great place for friendly advice. But there will always be a few posters who will want to tell you what a naughty boy you have been & how you must take your punishment.

I think that the bank analogy is very good & I also think that a judge would be astonished that a phone company would allow you to run up thousands in debt. They can instantly block you for non payment etc & they have a long call history to go on so it should be easy for the computer to spot unusual use.

Of course it's easier to bully & intimidate the consumer especially as some will pay.

Please link to any court case where a judge has ruled a customer can negligently ignore their responsibility by not informing the phone company of a lost/stolen phone for 24+ hours?

Discodog

notjustsweet wrote: »

Have you called vodaphone and talked to them yet rather than arguing the point with strangers?

Like everyone has said they probably will try to help you lower the cost if you engage with them instead of ignoring them or going in with all guns blazing.

Why lower the cost when he isn't liable for any cost ?

Discodog

notjustsweet wrote: »

Please link to any court case where a judge has ruled a customer can negligently ignore their responsibility by not informing the phone company of a lost/stolen phone for 24+ hours?

Your interpretation of negligent is very different to mine. The Courts may well define it as failing to take the care that a normal person might take. Show me a case where a phone company has successfully sued someone in such an instance ?

Former Former

SB1988 wrote: »

In my opinion this is similar to when someone steals your bank card and takes all your cash, how come you can claim that back but a phone bill is different? Its still your money being used...

And yes I am aware that banks are insured against that stuff!

Banks will refund you if you've taken all reasonable steps to guard against fraud and you inform them asap of the theft.

You have a 36 hour gap that you can't really account for. You simply didn't hold up your end of the bargain.

I see someone above is saying boards should only be for friendly advice, so I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but it's exactly what Vodafone will tell you and if it eventually ends up in court, it's the first question you'll be asked.

Discodog

CeilingFly wrote: »

Anyone else suspicious of this thread?

Newly registered poster going on and on and on - seems to be clueless, but is quite quick with the answers.

Very similar style to similar waste of time threads.

I think that the OP is far from clueless. The same might not be said for some of the sanctimonious replies.

Why is a waste of time to discuss an issue that any consumer could easily face ?

Discodog

Former Former wrote: »

Banks will refund you if you've taken all reasonable steps to guard against fraud and you inform them asap of the theft.

You have a 36 hour gap that you can't really account for. You simply didn't hold up your end of the bargain.

I see someone above is saying boards should only be for friendly advice, so I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but it's exactly what Vodafone will tell you and if it eventually ends up in court, it's the first question you'll be asked.

The OP's explanation seems very typical of what the average person would do.

ForstalDave

Discodog wrote: »

Your interpretation of negligent is very different to mine. The Courts may well define it as failing to take the care that a normal person might take. Show me a case where a phone company has successfully sued someone in such an instance ?

If i was out and lost my phone iv rind to cancel it straight away, i think most normal people would, same if i lost my bank card, i certainly wouldn't think ah it will be grand, also was there not a pin code on the phone?

Discodog

CeilingFly wrote: »

Post #1

24 calls in 12 hours each lasting over an hour? Hmmm...

You're all being trolled.

He is saying that is what Vodafone are claiming. Vodafone have lied to me before so I am sure they can do it to others.

Discodog

ForstalDave wrote: »

If i was out and lost my phone iv rind to cancel it straight away, i think most normal people would, same if i lost my bank card, i certainly wouldn't think ah it will be grand, also was there not a pin code on the phone?

Well that would be for a Court to decide but it won't go to Court. Vodafone will bully, intimidate, threat & then give up

ForstalDave

Discodog wrote: »

Well that would be for a Court to decide but it won't go to Court. Vodafone will bully, intimidate, threat & then give up

Dont know why vodaphone is the bad guy here, what is your thought on not pin protecting the phone which most likly would have negated the issue here

Valuable lesson for people whether true or not. Always lock your SIM with a PIN. Even if your actual phone has security in place.

njs030

Discodog wrote: »

Your interpretation of negligent is very different to mine. The Courts may well define it as failing to take the care that a normal person might take. Show me a case where a phone company has successfully sued someone in such an instance ?

That's what I thought. You can't.

Discodog

ForstalDave wrote: »

Dont know why vodaphone is the bad guy here, what is your thought on not pin protecting the phone which most likly would have negated the issue here

We all do things that, in hindsight, might of been better choices. Whether Vodafone are good or bad depends on their choices.

jimmycrackcorm

SB1988 wrote:

Yes my phone had a thumb print for access, and failing that it had a 4 digit pin. I also brought this up with them but they had no answer...

Factory reset phone.

dudara wrote:

Ok - that's very odd. They might have swapped the SIM into another phone and thus bypassed the lock on your phone

The easiest option.

Discodog

notjustsweet wrote: »

That's what I thought. You can't.

I can't be arsed. What's your excuse for not providing links to successful prosecutions ?