Leinster vs Scarlet; 19th May 2017 19:45; RDS; TG4, SS2, BBC Wales

awec

GrainneArd wrote: »

There were many poor decisions last night. Nacewa should have managed the backline from fullback, o'loughnin should have been on the wing and Carbery should have replaced Sexton after 10 minutes. As for McGrath over Gibson Park. In truth they probably are the worst 9s in all the provinces. As for Heaslip, Kearney and the likes turning it around, that is wishful thinking. It was poor team choice and then Sexton had the worst game in memory to make things even less palatable.

I'm not pinning the loss on him, far from it, as you say there were loads of factors and he certainly wasn't the worst on show (though he was pretty awful).

But his attitude is not at all constructive at times. He has got away with it because in the past he has pretty much always turned up when it mattered but really he should be getting taken aside and given a dressing down.

At a guess (I'm not bothered to look) Sexton and Nacewa were the two most senior players on show. One spent a good portion of the game in a strop and the other did nothing.

pickarooney

GrainneArd wrote: »

Correct and true

Given the absolute thrashing we got at the breakdown it's hard to justify this. They were tackling and carrying, fine but the grunt work was sorely missing.

Sexton conceded five turnovers. That's beyond awful.

blackdog1

Jump_In_Jack wrote:

To be fair, Tadhg Furlong was outstanding going forward with the ball, he came off at 60 with cramp, but thought he had put in a good stint. Also there were periods of good work, I thought Henshaw, Ruddock and Nacewa offered themselves to carry the ball into contact many times, But it was disappointing that the phases were just too few to really hurt Scarlets, And that there was no plan B to kick for territory and put pressure on them in their half by defending with fast line speed and targeting turnovers in the rucks, Instead Scarlets did that to Leinster and managed to get through the second half without allowing any breakdown in their defence. To be fair to Leinster, there was a lot of bad luck, Heaslip, O'Brien, Rob Kearney, Sean Cronin, all missing, And Jack McGrath injured first 10 minutes, What looked like a "friendly-fire" injury to Luke McGrath, seemed like Nacewa kneed him in the head with clumsy clearout technique, Nacewa missing the crucial conversion kick to reduce the score from 6 to 4 with just enough time to build an attack for a try or possibly two 3-pointers, Then Leinster being penalised in the scrum even though they were shunting Scarlets all over the place, And to cap it off, With time running out, and begging for some momentum, Kirchner came on and flung the ball a mile into touch! It really was the most error-strewn match I've seen in a while. Would have been a great final if 2 Irish teams were in it, Will have to hope Munster can get revenge instead now.

Jump_In_Jack wrote:

To be fair, Tadhg Furlong was outstanding going forward with the ball, he came off at 60 with cramp, but thought he had put in a good stint. Also there were periods of good work, I thought Henshaw, Ruddock and Nacewa offered themselves to carry the ball into contact many times, But it was disappointing that the phases were just too few to really hurt Scarlets, And that there was no plan B to kick for territory and put pressure on them in their half by defending with fast line speed and targeting turnovers in the rucks, Instead Scarlets did that to Leinster and managed to get through the second half without allowing any breakdown in their defence. To be fair to Leinster, there was a lot of bad luck, Heaslip, O'Brien, Rob Kearney, Sean Cronin, all missing, And Jack McGrath injured first 10 minutes, What looked like a "friendly-fire" injury to Luke McGrath, seemed like Nacewa kneed him in the head with clumsy clearout technique, Nacewa missing the crucial conversion kick to reduce the score from 6 to 4 with just enough time to build an attack for a try or possibly two 3-pointers, Then Leinster being penalised in the scrum even though they were shunting Scarlets all over the place, And to cap it off, With time running out, and begging for some momentum, Kirchner came on and flung the ball a mile into touch! It really was the most error-strewn match I've seen in a while. Would have been a great final if 2 Irish teams were in it, Will have to hope Munster can get revenge instead now.

Furlong is carrying but he's not hitting enough rucks for my liking. He's a 19 stone prop who should be melting guys in the rucks ...like Davies but he's constantly waiting for a carry. He's been poor the last 3 games apart from his superb tackling.

thebaz

awec wrote: »

With regards to Sexton, when it's not going well for him and he starts getting ratty and having a go at everyone around him he is absolutely poisonous IMO. For that alone he should have been hauled off last night much earlier.

I get that he has always been mouthy, but when you're playing rubbish yourself then shut your mouth and concentrate on your own game. Leinster needed Heaslip-style leadership last night, an arm on the shoulder and a pointer in the right direction.

I love Johnno when he's mouthing off and calling the shots - over the years this has carried Leinster in particular in tight matches - take your point about Friday , where he was having a shocker - but had very few of those in his career.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

With regards to Sexton, when it's not going well for him and he starts getting ratty and having a go at everyone around him he is absolutely poisonous IMO. For that alone he should have been hauled off last night much earlier.

I get that he has always been mouthy, but when you're playing rubbish yourself then shut your mouth and concentrate on your own game. Leinster needed Heaslip-style leadership last night, an arm on the shoulder and a pointer in the right direction.

People have been saying for a while that we'd miss him most when he was gone. I think this is exactly right. Leinster were forcing the game and as a result making errors. When they had a man advantage they continued to force it rather than play smart. Sexton has rarely been the guy to provide the kind of leadership needed. And Isa was the only other guy out there who could. He's been poor lately though. We need to develop leaders out of some of these younger lads. I wish it didn't take losses like this to help make that happen as I found Friday really hard to take, but ultimately I think we need this. And we now need some of these younger lads to step up and be that voice of calm.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

I'm not pinning the loss on him, far from it, as you say there were loads of factors and he certainly wasn't the worst on show (though he was pretty awful).

But his attitude is not at all constructive at times. He has got away with it because in the past he has pretty much always turned up when it mattered but really he should be getting taken aside and given a dressing down.

At a guess (I'm not bothered to look) Sexton and Nacewa were the two most senior players on show. One spent a good portion of the game in a strop and the other did nothing.

I have to wonder whether not playing Sexton outside the knock outs was a good idea. Either he was injured and shouldn't have been playing at all or he was fit and needed time. I'm not sure how he can develop the familiarity needed with the set up, calls and team mates having only played 2 games for the team in the previous 4 months.

vienne86

molloyjh wrote: »

People have been saying for a while that we'd miss him most when he was gone. I think this is exactly right. Leinster were forcing the game and as a result making errors. When they had a man advantage they continued to force it rather than play smart. Sexton has rarely been the guy to provide the kind of leadership needed. And Isa was the only other guy out there who could. He's been poor lately though. We need to develop leaders out of some of these younger lads. I wish it didn't take losses like this to help make that happen as I found Friday really hard to take, but ultimately I think we need this. And we now need some of these younger lads to step up and be that voice of calm.

The one individual among the younger crop who has leadership qualities IMO is Luke McGrath......his was a bad loss, quite apart from the fact that JGP wasn't great in his place. But yes, we need some new leaders, especially in the pack.

Former Former

molloyjh wrote: »

People have been saying for a while that we'd miss him most when he was gone. I think this is exactly right. Leinster were forcing the game and as a result making errors. When they had a man advantage they continued to force it rather than play smart. Sexton has rarely been the guy to provide the kind of leadership needed. And Isa was the only other guy out there who could. He's been poor lately though. We need to develop leaders out of some of these younger lads. I wish it didn't take losses like this to help make that happen as I found Friday really hard to take, but ultimately I think we need this. And we now need some of these younger lads to step up and be that voice of calm.

Yes, calmness is exactly what is needed.

Despite how rubbish we played, we were in touch for pretty much the entire game. It would not have taken a huge swing to actually win it and that's exactly what should have happened after Conan's try. A four-point gap with 15 minutes to go, at home, against 14 men? I'd have put the house on Leinster closing that out. Instead, Nacewa shanks the conversion, it's still a 6-point game and Leinster were even more rattled.

What we needed was someone to slow things down, to tell everyone to stop looking for the 50-metre break and stunning offload, that sometimes we need to just truck it up, give the forwards time to get over the ball and stop conceding f**king turnovers. That didn't happen. I lost count of the numbers of times we beat the first man, only to run into the second and third and lose possession.

Turnovers are what killed us. The Scarlets poached some wonderful balls, that steal from Liam Williams after McGrath's break was a thing of beauty and Davies had a stormer, but it was the knock-ons, dropped balls and kicks out on the full that really sealed our fate. We turned the ball over TWENTY-NINE times. That's criminal.

Someone, anyone, needed to stick the ball up their jumper, crash into a few Scarlets lads and just keep possession for a few phases. The gaps would have opened up with just a little more patience.

Former Former

In terms of the coaches...

I don't know, I wouldn't have picked Molony or Adam Byrne to begin with tbh. We tried to take Scarlets on at their own game instead of playing our own. In a team that was already missing a lot of its spine, Toner should have been there from the start. Say what you want about but him but the guy hits a lot of rucks and that's one of things we really missed on Friday, a good, old-fashioned clearout.

I think it was obvious to everyone that Sexton was having a mare, but Cullen persisted with him up to the bitter end. I can see why you would leave him on, he's far more likely than Ross Byrne to produce a moment of game-changing magic, but in truth he was somewhere between passenger and outright liability. He should have been hooked.

Hopefully the coaches were trying to change things during the game and we just couldn't implement it on the field, because it was obvious that plan A wasn't working.

molloyjh

vienne86 wrote: »

The one individual among the younger crop who has leadership qualities IMO is Luke McGrath......his was a bad loss, quite apart from the fact that JGP wasn't great in his place. But yes, we need some new leaders, especially in the pack.

Was it me or did a lot of the game change after McGrath went off. I didn't watch it back (and don't really intend to) but I felt we lost a bit of direction after he left the field. It kind of feeds into FFs point below....

Former Former wrote: »

Someone, anyone, needed to stick the ball up their jumper, crash into a few Scarlets lads and just keep possession for a few phases. The gaps would have opened up with just a little more patience.

In the opening 10-15 we were gaining ground and getting quick ball really well. We didn't seem to be over extending ourselves and made a good bit of yardage close into the rucks. After McGrath went off we tended to do less of that. As those few here who were with me at the game can attest to I was calling (er, maybe screaming at times) for us to attack the fringes more. I do wonder how much McGrath added in terms of leadership or would we have gone the same way regardless.

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

I have to wonder whether not playing Sexton outside the knock outs was a good idea. Either he was injured and shouldn't have been playing at all or he was fit and needed time. I'm not sure how he can develop the familiarity needed with the set up, calls and team mates having only played 2 games for the team in the previous 4 months.

I think it was utterly stupid to keep him on the field, to be honest. He was injured as well as playing like a drain. He kicked to touch at one point in the second half from a penalty and had to limp up the field into position. He was clearly in some pain. It was a disappointing lack of decisiveness from the coaching team. We had huge success with Ross Byrne and cross field kicks against the Scarlets this season....why we didn't try it on Friday baffles me.

But I'd agree, the lack of game certainly doesn't help. He was well off in terms of accuracy. For Leinster, has played against Wasps and Clermont in 4 months. That's a ridiculous situation.

With all that said, it doesn't excuse the poor showing. We chose to have our worst showing of the season at one of the worst possible moments. And I put as much blame on the coaches as I do the players. I just don't understand some of the calls. As I said beforehand, why on earth did we omit our best breakdown player when we're coming up against James Davies?

Ectoplasm

Yeah I felt like McGrath was a big loss and not just because JGP seemed to be trying to pass the ball to the crowd. AFAIK he went off and Johnny picked up an injury within a relatively short space of time.
I think the combo really screwed us and I do think that Johnny was actually a liability and should have been pulled. I may even have made those around me at the game endure a rant to that effect

Former Former

Buer wrote: »

I think it was utterly stupid to keep him on the field, to be honest. He was injured as well as playing like a drain. He kicked to touch at one point in the second half from a penalty and had to limp up the field into position. He was clearly in some pain. It was a disappointing lack of decisiveness from the coaching team. We had huge success with Ross Byrne and cross field kicks against the Scarlets this season....why we didn't try it on Friday baffles me.

But I'd agree, the lack of game certainly doesn't help. He was well off in terms of accuracy. For Leinster, has played against Wasps and Clermont in 4 months. That's a ridiculous situation.

With all that said, it doesn't excuse the poor showing. We chose to have our worst showing of the season at one of the worst possible moments. And I put as much blame on the coaches as I do the players. I just don't understand some of the calls. As I said beforehand, why on earth did we omit our best breakdown player when we're coming up against James Davies?

Ruddock had been in flying form, probably our best player since the end of the Six Nations. He had to play (but unfortunately had a rubbish game). VDF is every bit as good as Leavy at the breakdown and was one of the few who actually performed on Friday.

Leavy still got nearly all of the second half and it didn't help. We got murdered at the breakdown in Clermont with him there too.

typhoony

I thought ross Byrne was averagely
Good in his performances for Leinster this season, I did'nt see any criticism of his performances or any high Acclaim. But that is what Leinster needed on Friday night, the issue with sexton is that he is on the edge of being brilliant or terrible.

shuffol

A moment I felt was telling at the time with Sexton(though it could be me reading too much into things) was when he bought the penalty in our 22 near the end of the first half. There had just been a bit of niggle, tension was high and I expected Sexton to boom the kick into the Scarlets half to make a statement and lift the crowd but he struck it terribly and ended up bringing play up to our 10 metre line. He looked rattled at that stage.

Buer

shuffol wrote: »

I moment I felt was telling at the time with Sexton(though it could be me reading too much into things) was when he bought the penalty in our 22 near the end of the first half. There had just been a bit of niggle, tension was high and I expected Sexton to boom the kick into the Scarlets half to make a statement and lift the crowd but he struck it terribly and ended up bringing play up to our 10 metre line. He looked rattled at that stage.

His line kicking was consistently very poor after he got the knock. I've no idea why he was taking them even if his line kicking usually is excellent. He wasn't fit enough to kick from the tee, he should never have been taking those either and clearly wasn't striking the ball how he'd like. The fact that it appeared to exacerbate the injury in the second half after one particular line kick made it all the more stupid.

MaybeMaybe

One good thing from Sextons point of view and assuming he even gets near the starting 10 jersey for the Lions, at least he got a chance to start and not kick at goal

GrainneArd

MaybeMaybe wrote: »

One good thing from Sextons point of view and assuming he even gets near the starting 10 jersey for the Lions, at least he got a chance to start and not kick at goal

I have no idea what you mean by this statement. What I do think is there is a very worrying trend in the level of Sextons rugby performances. These days I worry about the guy. He is top of every teams hit-list and is just getting pummelled every time he plays. I know this is to be expected being a professional rugby player but he definitely is getting crucified these days. And to be fair to him, I have never seen a 10 that really puts his body on the line like Sexton. He gives absolutely everything, will tackle anybody no matter the possible damage to himself.

typhoony

there are plenty of smaller out-halves that get the same treatment, sexton has just copped a few too many and seems to go down very easily these days

leakyboots

Hard lines fellers, just seemed like a bit of a perfect storm of a performance - Sexton really had an off-day. Shocking performance out of him, turned over so much ball. If I was in the opposition, I'd love to see Healy coming on - he's like Hartley, you know he's going to leak a few stupid penalties. I think the writing has been on the wall with Isa these past couple of months, maybe he should have been at 15 and ROL on the wing, or Ferg McF - who I don't particularly rate but when you've the likes of Byrne and Carberry who are new and greenhorn defensively maybe he offers a bit more solidity. Can't remember if they were injured or whatever, but anyway, easy in retrospect though to suggest changes in that ilk I guess.

Back 3 is a real area of concern for Leinster - there's very little in the way of pace (overall). If you're relying on a back-from-retirement Isa, injury-prone Kearneys who aren't particularly fast, Kirchener, McFadden... no offense, but that's a whole pile of 'meh'... and a few kids who have potential but are still very much in their rugby infancy. Lowe is a step in the right direction - older head, genuine threat. But you look at the speed merchants who are plying their trade elsewhere, Healy, Conway, Adeloekun etc. and you wonder if recruitment is a bit askew. Green shoots with Byrne and ROL who had good seasons, Byrne really needs to work on his defence though, .ak is going to find it hard to get it up in the terraces if he keeps making silly reads

The defensive system overall needs tweaking too - I highlighted during the season that Leinster are leaking tries, not closing out games. It's all well and good to be blitzing weaker teams in attack in January... but if you're letting them run in 3 tries while you're at it, and then not addressing it, well.. that comes back to bite you. Leinster finished outside the Top 4 in terms of points conceded. I think that's where the season was lost. Munster's season has been built on animal defence. At the Ospreys game, while it was close for a good while, I was very relaxed in the terrace 'cos we had their number and that was clear from very early on, we were sacking them over and over. The inverse was true against Sarries, they had our number and I didn't think we had the backs moves to unlock them - there's been green shoots of better backplay since that game that I hope we can build on next season. Maybe Leinster/Munster should just amalgamate, there's the makings of an awesome team if you join up their relative strengths

Some other random thoughts - I don't think Henshaw going from a 15/13 to being used as a battering ram at 12 is the best use of his skills. How to undo that I have no idea, you can't move Ringrose. Not saying he's a bad 12, I think he may be a bit better elsewhere. But then who plays 12? Find a good 12 and stick Henshaw at 15? Or am I completely wrong to say move him. I dunno.

Serious problem at hooker - I'd take Munster's three first-choice hookers over any of Leinster's (and yeah, including Cronin - he just can't throw).

Oomph needed at 2nd row. I think D. Ryan will be a massive loss for us next season and we'll find ourselves in a similar predicament unless someone is signed. If Toner isn't taking lineout ball and disrupting mauls he's a shadow on the pitch, need someone to complement him. Ruddock strikes me as someone who could slot in and be a Billy Holland-like figure who just tackles and hits rucks all day.

Great options in the backrow, hopefully won't suffer from chopping and changing. Will be a test of man-mangement to keep everyone happy, but a nice headache to have nonetheless

Backups at 9 and 10 - bit of a dropoff here, but there's greenshoots with Byrne/Carberry who could come good. 9 is more pressing, JGP looks headless and who's next behind him?

Bit of a dropoff at in backup at 12/13 - ROL will help in this regard, I dunno about 12 though. Henshaw is going to be away a good bit, is Reid enough?

Ringrose is the jewel in the crown though, he's won me over - one of the few where the hype is justified.

Just on the hype front - this place is very quick to anoint the second coming, especially when they're in blue, after a good performance or two - maybe reel it in a bit and let lads develop and wait for longer than a handful of games to be pushing lads for Lions places and other things.

For all the hype, Munster have been stealing a bit of a march with winning at B&I level (Leinster's pedigree here is very good to be fair), underage level with winning Juniors last season. Ulster won Juniors this year - Leinster had 30 points put on them by Munster and Ulster.

The jury is still out on the likes of Carberry for me (at the highest level, just talking international here - need to stick him in one position and let him develop). Leavy and Conan look like they've the goods to my novice eye, I think it'd be a shame to see them stuck behind Jordi Murphy who I don't particularly rate or an ageing, slowing SOB and Heaslip (I wonder will that 3-year contract be looked upon as a bit too long in retrospect). Then again Heaslip and SOB could do an Isa and have an indian summer of a season while the young bucks find the next gear. Will be interesting to monitor how it's all handled.

A bit rambling and aimless, I only meant to comment on the game, so back to that - a chastening loss like that though could galvanise the squad though, I'd expect Leinster to be back better and stronger next season, there's enough talent there to move on up a level, I don't think we saw the best of them the other day or, indeed, all season.

Buer

F*cking hell, LB.

Use lube next time at least.

leakyboots

Buer wrote: »

F*cking hell, LB.

Use lube next time at least.

Ah I don't want to be harsh, there's lots to be positive about too.

I didn't mention Furlong who is now a Grade A monster for e.g... John Ryan came out of nowhere for us, the brothers Scannell too - the point I'm getting at is you never know who will step up and burst on the scene and what level they'll reach.

Furlong and Ringrose are two guys you can, in all probability, hang your hat on for the next 10 years.

I've my own views on the likes of the Kearneys etc that some mightn't agree with, but it's a fine balancing act in bringing in the next bright young thing and chucking aside an older head.

Leinster are in a much better place than a couple of seasons ago.

Buer

I think it's generally a fair enough assessment in honesty. I do think it's a little knee jerk though. They sh*t the bed for 80 minutes. Yes, the performances haven't been great in the last couple of weeks but Friday was pretty much an anomaly for the most part. They got hit in a 20 minute period which they didn't recover from and were completely shell shocked.

They're not the up and coming side that some make out. If they accept that, they should rightly feel patronised. They have the quality right now to win trophies and let themselves down at the weekend. That goes as much for the coaches as those on the field and possibly more so.

They'll learn from it both on and off the field. I think the lack of continuity really damaged them and the more I think about it the less I can understand the call for benching their top lock in a knock out game. Madness. You can't talk about respecting the opposition and avoiding complacency whilst pulling a move like that. It will filter into the team.

The one thing that Munster have had in recent months is continuity and it shows. There's a great cohesion and trust in the side that allows everyone to know what they're supposed to be doing and do it as efficiently as possible.

Have a look at the Munster 1-8 since the final game of the 6N.I've omitted the Treviso game which is the only game where they named a second string pack on the field and bench.

Ospreys: Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell , John Ryan, Donnacha Ryan, Billy Holland, Peter O’Mahony, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.
Connacht: James Cronin (Kilcoyne 58), Rhys Marshall (Scannell 58), Stephen Archer (Ryan 58); Darren O’Shea (O’Mahony 58), Billy Holland – capt.; Jean Deysel (O’Donnell 65), Conor Oliver, Jack O’Donoghue.
Saracens: Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell , John Ryan, Donnacha Ryan, Billy Holland, Peter O’Mahony, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.
Ulster: Dave Kiloyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Donnacha Ryan, Billy Holland; Peter O’Mahony, Tommy O’Donnell, Jack O’Donoghue
Glasgow: James Cronin (D Kilcoyne 42), Rhys Marshall (N Scannell 49), Stephen Archer (J Ryan 49); Dave O’Callaghan, Billy Holland – capt.; Jean Deysel (P O’Mahony 42), Conor Oliver, Jack O’Donoghue (D Ryan 53).
Toulouse: Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell , John Ryan, Donnacha Ryan, Billy Holland, Peter O’Mahony, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.
Zebre: Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan, Dave O’Callaghan, Billy Holland, Peter O’Mahony, Tommy O’Donnell, Jack O’Donoghue.

It's a lesson in continuity and consistency. Aside from Stander being injured for a spell, Munster had their first choice pack involved pretty much every single weekend since the 6N; I've highlighted when the first choice players may not have started but came onto the field in the fixture. Even the week after the England game, POM was starting in Italy.

Kilcoyne, Scannell, Holland, J. Ryan and POM featured in every game aside from the Treviso fixture. TOD would be there too but missed one because of injury, I think.

Leinster never really got that sorted. If you asked the coaches who their best XV is right now, I don't think they could tell you and that's a big problem.

thomond2006

Hooker seems to be up in the air. Strauss was rumoured to be leaving and then signed a two-year deal. At the same time Tracy appeared to regress. Sean Cronin can play on for a few more seasons but a huge part of his game is his loose play which will decline.

leakyboots

All fair points Buer, I think if you asked all the Blue Magoos on here to pick the best Leinster backrow you'll get a wide variety of combinations.

As an aside, it's great to see the Scarlets step up - with Ulster regressing, Glasgow too, Ospreys are a bit of a shambles, Connacht were woeful, it was good to see some teams on the up in Munster/Leinster/Scarlets. The league needs it.

I've a feeling Ulster will be back in a big way next season, hopefully Connacht can kick on too - we should be aiming for all four Irish teams in Europe season on season.

Former Former

Buer wrote: »

It's a lesson in continuity and consistency. Aside from Stander being injured for a spell, Munster had their first choice pack involved pretty much every single weekend since the 6N; I've highlighted when the first choice players may not have started but came onto the field in the fixture. Even the week after the England game, POM was starting in Italy.

Kilcoyne, Scannell, Holland, J. Ryan and POM featured in every game aside from the Treviso fixture. TOD would be there too but missed one because of injury, I think.

Leinster never really got that sorted. If you asked the coaches who their best XV is right now, I don't think they could tell you and that's a big problem.

In fairness, a lot of that has been out of the coaches' hands. The best XV would definitely contain Cronin, O'Brien and Heaslip, who have been unavailable for the run-in. It would contain Sexton whose fitness is completely unreliable and it would contain the Kearneys who are the same.

That said, some of the rotation in the last few weeks has been head-scratching.

leakyboots

leakyboots wrote: »

Hard lines fellers, just seemed like a bit of a perfect storm of a performance - Sexton really had an off-day. Shocking performance out of him, turned over so much ball. If I was in the opposition, I'd love to see Healy coming on - he's like Hartley, you know he's going to leak a few stupid penalties. I think the writing has been on the wall with Isa these past couple of months, maybe he should have been at 15 and ROL on the wing, or Ferg McF - who I don't particularly rate but when you've the likes of Byrne and Carberry who are new and greenhorn defensively maybe he offers a bit more solidity. Can't remember if they were injured or whatever, but anyway, easy in retrospect though to suggest changes in that ilk I guess.

Back 3 is a real area of concern for Leinster - there's very little in the way of pace (overall). If you're relying on a back-from-retirement Isa, injury-prone Kearneys who aren't particularly fast, Kirchener, McFadden... no offense, but that's a whole pile of 'meh'... and a few kids who have potential but are still very much in their rugby infancy. Lowe is a step in the right direction - older head, genuine threat. But you look at the speed merchants who are plying their trade elsewhere, Healy, Conway, Adeloekun etc. and you wonder if recruitment is a bit askew. Green shoots with Byrne and ROL who had good seasons, Byrne really needs to work on his defence though, .ak is going to find it hard to get it up in the terraces if he keeps making silly reads

The defensive system overall needs tweaking too - I highlighted during the season that Leinster are leaking tries, not closing out games. It's all well and good to be blitzing weaker teams in attack in January... but if you're letting them run in 3 tries while you're at it, and then not addressing it, well.. that comes back to bite you. Leinster finished outside the Top 4 in terms of points conceded. I think that's where the season was lost. Munster's season has been built on animal defence. At the Ospreys game, while it was close for a good while, I was very relaxed in the terrace 'cos we had their number and that was clear from very early on, we were sacking them over and over. The inverse was true against Sarries, they had our number and I didn't think we had the backs moves to unlock them - there's been green shoots of better backplay since that game that I hope we can build on next season. Maybe Leinster/Munster should just amalgamate, there's the makings of an awesome team if you join up their relative strengths

Some other random thoughts - I don't think Henshaw going from a 15/13 to being used as a battering ram at 12 is the best use of his skills. How to undo that I have no idea, you can't move Ringrose. Not saying he's a bad 12, I think he may be a bit better elsewhere. But then who plays 12? Find a good 12 and stick Henshaw at 15? Or am I completely wrong to say move him. I dunno.

Serious problem at hooker - I'd take Munster's three first-choice hookers over any of Leinster's (and yeah, including Cronin - he just can't throw).

Oomph needed at 2nd row. I think D. Ryan will be a massive loss for us next season and we'll find ourselves in a similar predicament unless someone is signed. If Toner isn't taking lineout ball and disrupting mauls he's a shadow on the pitch, need someone to complement him. Ruddock strikes me as someone who could slot in and be a Billy Holland-like figure who just tackles and hits rucks all day.

Great options in the backrow, hopefully won't suffer from chopping and changing. Will be a test of man-mangement to keep everyone happy, but a nice headache to have nonetheless

Backups at 9 and 10 - bit of a dropoff here, but there's greenshoots with Byrne/Carberry who could come good. 9 is more pressing, JGP looks headless and who's next behind him?

Bit of a dropoff at in backup at 12/13 - ROL will help in this regard, I dunno about 12 though. Henshaw is going to be away a good bit, is Reid enough?

Ringrose is the jewel in the crown though, he's won me over - one of the few where the hype is justified.

Just on the hype front - this place is very quick to anoint the second coming, especially when they're in blue, after a good performance or two - maybe reel it in a bit and let lads develop and wait for longer than a handful of games to be pushing lads for Lions places and other things.

For all the hype, Munster have been stealing a bit of a march with winning at B&I level (Leinster's pedigree here is very good to be fair), underage level with winning Juniors last season. Ulster won Juniors this year - Leinster had 30 points put on them by Munster and Ulster.

The jury is still out on the likes of Carberry for me (at the highest level, just talking international here - need to stick him in one position and let him develop). Leavy and Conan look like they've the goods to my novice eye, I think it'd be a shame to see them stuck behind Jordi Murphy who I don't particularly rate or an ageing, slowing SOB and Heaslip (I wonder will that 3-year contract be looked upon as a bit too long in retrospect). Then again Heaslip and SOB could do an Isa and have an indian summer of a season while the young bucks find the next gear. Will be interesting to monitor how it's all handled.

A bit rambling and aimless, I only meant to comment on the game, so back to that - a chastening loss like that though could galvanise the squad though, I'd expect Leinster to be back better and stronger next season, there's enough talent there to move on up a level, I don't think we saw the best of them the other day or, indeed, all season.

We should look at adapting this post in some way. I feel there is another thread right now that could use some "hard lines"...