Leinster vs Scarlet; 19th May 2017 19:45; RDS; TG4, SS2, BBC Wales

nc6000

thebaz wrote: »

Johnny really is playing at higher level (internationally /Lions) than Isa and should only be played sparingly

Absolute nonsense. Johnny hardly ever plays for Leinster. How more sparingly can he play, maybe 5 games a season? :rolleyes:

leakyboots

Ah JGP was atrocious, going down the blindside when there's overlaps, overhit box kicks, poor tackling, poor passing behind Tracy into touch, turned over.

Whatever about Jack McGrath being replaced by an inferior player, JGP was a massive dropoff from where Luke McGrath is at.

thebaz

nc6000 wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. Johnny hardly ever plays for Leinster. How more sparingly can he play, maybe 5 games a season? :rolleyes:

calm down - I said he plays at a higher level - international rugby is a higher level than club ... No ???? never mind - I'm out of here ....

GrainneArd

Isa has been on a downward curve for a while. To the point that you have a junior player at fullback to cover his weaknesses. And in fairness Carbery is not a professional fullback. So maybe Joe was right with his selections. Byrne was innocuous. Carbery was innocuous. But in fairness you have Carbery managing the back line. Would it not have have made more sense for Isa to do that at fullback and O'Loughlin on the wing. Carbery is a kid, how is he expected to manage a backline. He doesn't have the knowledge or the experience

awec

thebaz wrote: »

yes , his decision making was a atrocious for a pro 9 - missed a try saving tackle, not acceptable at this level.

The one against their #6?

JGP was hopeless but no 9 is making that tackle.

Elvisjuice

GrainneArd wrote: »

Isa has been on a downward curve for a while. To the point that you have a junior player at fullback to cover his weaknesses. And in fairness Carbery is not a professional fullback. So maybe Joe was right with his selections. Byrne was innocuous. Carbery was innocuous. But in fairness you have Carbery managing the back line. Would it not have have made more sense for Isa to do that at fullback and O'Loughlin on the wing. Carbery is a kid, how is he expected to manage a backline. He doesn't have the knowledge or the experience

Carbery had fook all to do with the **** leinster put out tonite , JD getting motm says where it was won and lost .

typhoony

what I found strange about the team selection was the guys that Cullen was forced initially to put in and then seemed to trust from November to March, O'Loughlin/Leavy/Ross Byrne didn't make the team but the guys with question marks over them either due to poor performances or injuries Adam Byrne\JVDF\Sexton were selected.

actually wasn't Carbery also out for a good chunk of the season also when Leinster were going well

penybont exile

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

the booing i heard was for a few bad decisions. Mitrea didnt by any means have a terrible game, but the crowd booed a forward pass for the try and a couple of pretty cynical holds and obstructions.

Maybe there was more, but any i heard had a reason

.... no mention of the forward pass on Leinster's first try.

The truth is that if Gareth Davies hadn't been so hot headed the Scarlets would have put 40+ on Leinster tonight.

Can't say I saw it coming but I did think they had a better chance than most on here. Their big players turned up and contributed to some game changing moments .... Leinster's did not.

JD2 (heavily criticised here) was excellent .... I'm not a Scarlets fan but to be fair they really stuck it to Leinster tonight ...... 14 men, a centre playing fly half and a flanker on the wing ......

thebaz

awec wrote: »

The one against their #6?

JGP was hopeless but no 9 is making that tackle.

Conor Murray would - many would - Stringer was tiny , great tackler

degsie

Brutal game guys.

CatFromHue

penybont exile wrote: »

JD2 (heavily criticised here) was excellent .... I'm not a Scarlets fan but to be fair they really stuck it to Leinster tonight ...... 14 men, a centre playing fly half and a flanker on the wing ......

Tonight reminded me of Italy's win over SA in November. SA beat SA that day and they just happened to be on the pitch with Italy.

Lanelli were good but the amount of passes into touch, forward passes, knock ons, kicks straight into touch, kick offs not going ten from Leinster were the winning of the game for Lanelli....and then there's Nacewa hitting the post from his penalty too!

Buer

Still hard to put my finger on it in the cold light of day.

I think there was a multitude of issues. Selection was wrong for a start. I could not fathom the absence of Toner. As I said previously, I don't buy the knock talk. It suggested how we were looking to play and that just baffled me.

We needed to be far more structured in our play. In the first 5 minutes we went at them up front and marched the Scarlets down the field. We then decided to abandon this for the majority of the first half.

Players looked completely off the boil and undercooked. Sexton was awful. Really lacked accuracy which is unusual for him. I feel a few lads were minding themselves out there for the Lions. Quietest I've seen Furlong all season.

I even wonder if some of the youngsters named in the Irish squad were thinking about that. There was a desperate need for a leader out there. Heaslip was badly missed.

The huge amount of chopping and changing was clear in the lack of cohesion. Sexton has started two games for Leinster since the January ECC games. It showed. Henshaw similarly.

McGrath going off was huge. Don't understand anyone thinking JGP wasn't that bad. Charged down kick leading to their try, rag dolled on his tackle attempt, kicked out on the full, passed into touch at a crucial moment....but his general passing and urgency was the biggest issue. He's not a good passer but combined that with a complete lack of interest. As I said before, he has responded brutally to losing the battle for the starting spot. Seems to have accepted it and no interest in fighting.

Lastly, Molony doesn't deserve a spot in the Irish squad. Still too loose in his play. Needs more time and experience. Shame Triggs came off as he was playing well. Deserved a better send off.

BarryM

Pathetic over managed sh1te by an over confident side. Completely unable to cope with a side playing with conviction.

Deserved what the got, could/would have been worse.

Rigor Mortis

penybont exile wrote: »

.... no mention of the forward pass on Leinster's first try.

The truth is that if Gareth Davies hadn't been so hot headed the Scarlets would have put 40+ on Leinster tonight.

Can't say I saw it coming but I did think they had a better chance than most on here. Their big players turned up and contributed to some game changing moments .... Leinster's did not.

JD2 (heavily criticised here) was excellent .... I'm not a Scarlets fan but to be fair they really stuck it to Leinster tonight ...... 14 men, a centre playing fly half and a flanker on the wing ......

Check my post, I mentioned a few mistakes but did not say Mitrea was to blame for tonight's result. I was suggesting the booing was aimed at decisions not at Scarlet'S players.

By far the better team won. 15 each and it would probably have been worse.

bilston

Was there a touch of complacency there for Leinster. The fact there were so many handling errors suggests they weren't quite in the right headspace where as the Scarlets were right on the button.

When was the last time the majority of that Leinster side played together? I strongly believe Ulster's rotation policy has hurt us badly this season and I think something similar happened to Leinster last night. Fair enough teams will chop and change, especially up to March, but once the Six Nations is over I think the provinces should be going full throttle. There was a business in players like Henshaw and Sexton last night which was very costly.

Also Leinster seem to play too loosely, you might get away with that against most Pro 12 sides, but not the Scarlets.

Finally for all the talk by some of bringing 31 kids to the US and Japan and leaving anyone over the age of 28 behind etc etc, last night was proof that you ALWAYS need an experienced spine. Leinster have lost two play off games in the last 3 weeks and have done so without Heaslip, O'Brien and Kearney. They are three of your four most experienced Irish lads and are the core of your team. They were a big miss last night.

The Scarlets were very good and on last night's showing will win the final, but then Munster are less likely to play into their hands if they play them.

Clonmel1000

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Leinster by 16+

How did that work out ?

HappyDaze007

Brilliant game, really enjoyed it... amazing the work rate with14 players...

Do know where Leinster were, cos they weren't at the match...

Hoping the ospreys can do much the same with Munster...

Del.Monte

Buer wrote: »

Did you watch the game? That was far worse than Williams who was executing a game plan and gave it his all.

JGP was completely uninterested and sluggish aside from all the errors.

No, of course I didn't watch the game, I was washing the cat blindfolded. :rolleyes:

I just didn't think that JGP played that badly and he was only part of the overall error riddled performance.

Buer

Del.Monte wrote:

I just didn't think that JGP played that badly and he was only part of the overall error riddled performance.

We'll agree to disagree so. I found it to be one of the most lacklustre showings of any Leinster player this season.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree so. I found it to be one of the most lacklustre showings of any Leinster player this season.

Worst performance we've had from a 9 since at least Reddan v Dragons

bennyl10

thebaz wrote: »

calm down - I said he plays at a higher level - international rugby is a higher level than club ... No ???? never mind - I'm out of here ....

If Farrell can turn up for both why can't Sexton?
No excuse.. he can't be 'managed' anymore than he is already!

WeleaseWoderick

Really disappointed with that result and performance. The Clermont semi seems to have completed deflated the momentum the team had built since Christmas.

It's probably the most disappointed I've been with a Leinster performance since the infamous loss to Perpignan in 2003. Same feeling of the players on the pitch not playing to even half their potential.

Larbre34

I felt I had to review this thread this morning, despite knowing how it would read, to prove to myself I didn't dream those 2 hours on the terrace last night. All I could think to do at full-time was to turn my back and yell 'Wenger out!'. A surreal and horrific night.

If Joe Schmidt had seen skill levels like that in his day, he wouldve sacked the whole roster. And genuinely it looked like 15 randomers had thrown on jerseys to get together for a knock about. So many errors and underperformers its hard to know where to start unpicking it.

Key early injuries, sure, but their faces changed after that first try up the left wing. The leadership group didnt impose themselves. A companion of mine rightly remarked, whenever Mitrea was considering something, Isa was nowhere to be seen and no obvious pack leader came forth to deputise.

Sexton looked deeply troubled and the players outside him lost cohesion, despite some good cameos. Adam Byrne's bottle looked smashed for whatever reason. Its not like he's not used to dealing mentally with injury and return.

It was far worse than Connacht at Murrayfield last May and thats saying something. Somebody needs to seriously challenge the management team about it.

Oh, and, Leinster need to open the private capital warchest and sign Ruan Pienaar. David Nucifora can go boil his head.

yosser hughes

I think there are questions again to be asked of Lancaster and player selection. It was his undoing with England. He kept trying to be too clever by half and changing selections for different games.I think he second guesses himself and now Cullen does as well.
The team should have bee much more settled and I can't understand Toner starting on the bench.
Leinster did not adapt to the game as it unfolded either. That's down to decisions made on the pitch but it should also have been communicated from the sideline.
Playing with a player advantage for 50 minutes and not working out how best to use it, is a bad indictment of players and coaches tactical acumen.
Singling out individul players is daft when nearly ALL the players under-performed.
JGP getting most of the criticism while Sexton the senior player and Lion gets hardly any? JGP was not he reason Leinster lost that game.
It's lazy, scapegoating.

irishbucsfan

yosser hughes wrote: »

JGP getting most of the criticism while Sexton the senior player and Lion gets hardly any? JGP was not he reason Leinster lost that game.
It's lazy, scapegoating.

Absolute bollocks.

Scapegoating implies people are saying its his fault we lost. Noone has said that. People are just saying he was very very poor. Which he was.

Either you're completely overreacting or you don't understand what scapegoating is.

CIARAN_BOYLE

There was too many problems to just blame JPG.

Tracey was poor, neither lock performed, yes jpg was dire, Sexton got hurt early and lost a couple of gears playing hurt. There was a reason is a was taking kicks and it wasn't for his own health. Byrne was Byrne with all the defensive frailties that implies,

OldRio

Utterly shocked by that 'performance'


A semi final at home and that is served up.
No intensity. No leadership.

Brutal.

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

There was too many problems to just blame JPG.

Tracey was poor, neither lock performed, yes jpg was dire, Sexton got hurt early and lost a couple of gears playing hurt. There was a reason is a was taking kicks and it wasn't for his own health. Byrne was Byrne with all the defensive frailties that implies,

But who is just blaming JGP?

All the rest of those players have gotten criticism in this thread.

yosser hughes

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Absolute bollocks.

Scapegoating implies people are saying its his fault we lost. Noone has said that. People are just saying he was very very poor. Which he was.

Either you're completely overreacting or you don't understand what scapegoating is.

Calm down

gally74

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Really disappointed with that result and performance. The Clermont semi seems to have completed deflated the momentum the team had built since Christmas.

It's probably the most disappointed I've been with a Leinster performance since the infamous loss to Perpignan in 2003. Same feeling of the players on the pitch not playing to even half their potential.

Was it worse than the pro 12 final last year? Leinster were poor that day too,,, or maybe their just not as good as they think they are