Hate crime investigation after Caitlyn Jenner 'suffers vile transphobic abuse'

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

'Oi, Bruce, get your dick out' That's what was shouted.

A photographer shouted at Caitlyn Jenner 'Oi Bruce, get your dick out' as she left the British LGBT Awards in London.

Police have launched a hate crime investigation after the incident on Friday night.

Jenner was a guest at the ceremony, where she received a Loud And Proud trophy following her transition from Bruce Jenner in 2015, which she has spoken about publicly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4503056/Man-shouts-Bruce-d-Caitlyn-Jenner.html


Crap joke? Yes.
Hate crime? Give me a fcuking break.


So here we are, in 2017. Yet all it takes to be investigated of the most heinous crime in the 21st century is a crap joke. I'm going to stick my neck out and say the guy who said it isn't quite in the same league with Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, or the Orlando nightclub shooter.

I will say it again. Ludicrous nonsense like this is why the far right are gaining power.



Mod-Any reference to Caitlin Jenner as 'he' will be frowned upon in the thread. We accept that folk may confuse the pronoun but there are others that use it in a malicious way. So to remove any ambiguity, Caitlin Jenner should be referred to as 'she' from here on.
Please discuss the topic within the terms of the charter and a reminder to be civil to each other.

Birneybau

Could have shouted 'Killer'

riffmongous

ALR1601129

It was a robbery gone wrong. Nothing to see here.
Lightning strikes have killed far more transgender former olympians than crude comments.

Omackeral

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

where she received a Loud And Proud trophy following her transition from Bruce Jenner in 2015.

Let me say that again. ''Received a trophy''. That's the most offensive thing in all of this. Why does someone get a fcuking trophy!?? Reads like a South Park type of satire. Ridiculous.

Jurgen Klopp

If only the British police were as quick to investigate actual crimes like grooming and rape gangs or paedos raping kids at the BBC they might actually​ claw back some ounce of respect

_Whimsical_

I absolutely don't believe that trans people should suffer any abuse, but there's a certain level that anyone in the public eye would be met with by photographers looking for a pic. I'm sure Kim Kardashian has heard worse.

I saw footage of Chelsea Clinton having a journalist roaring "Bill is not your father, everyone knows it" into her face a few weeks ago and no one batted an eye.

Is this not just par for the course? Are we going to have police allocated to protect celebrities feelings next?

Phoebas

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

.
I will say it again. Ludicrous nonsense like this is why the far right are gaining power.

The police investigating this has attracted you to the far right?

Seems a bit extreme; the far right are a bit like that 'tho.

tomwaterford

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I absolutely don't believe that trans people should suffer any abuse, but there's a certain level that anyone in the public eye would be met with by photographers looking for a pic. I'm sure Kim Kardashian has heard worse.

I saw footage of Chelsea Clinton having a journalist roaring "Bill is not your father, everyone knows it" into her face a few weeks ago and no one batted an eye.

Is this not just par for the course? Are we going to have police allocated to protect celebrities feelings next?

The police have plenty worse crimes to be inveatigating tbf



But when did it become ok for people to shout abuse at people going about day to day life??


Its by tolerating likes of this,leads to people like that gowl at the beach in texas last week feeling empowered to hurl horrendous abuse at ordinary people

_Whimsical_

tomwaterford wrote: »

The police have plenty worse crimes to be inveatigating tbf



But when did it become ok for people to shout abuse at people going about day to day life??


Its by tolerating likes of this,leads to people like that gowl at the beach in texas last week feeling empowered to hurl horrendous abuse at ordinary people

It's not ok, but it's par for the course in the public eye, photographers want a shot of you looking rattled, they roar all sorts of things at people in order to get that reaction picture. That sort of grief is part of the job of being a celebrity. In an ideal world it wouldn't be and I agree it adds to the coarsening of our world. However Kaitlyn doesn't need to be everywhere plugging her book, she's chosen this circus, the tax payer shouldn't have to pay to protect her feelings.
It's a very different matter if someone is going about their normal life and is harrassed, I'd have zero tolerance for that.

Jurgen Klopp

tomwaterford wrote: »

The police have plenty worse crimes to be inveatigating tbf



But when did it become ok for people to shout abuse at people going about day to day life??


Its by tolerating likes of this,leads to people like that gowl at the beach in texas last week feeling empowered to hurl horrendous abuse at ordinary people

It's not ok. But it's nothing short of thought crimes and a police state to start using police for this kinda thing IMO and I include a Twitter user calling another a ******, paki or cracker, etc

If you go down that line you are genuinely at the arrest people for calling someone a fat **** type of thing IMO

Now, if it's a threat of violence inciting like "I'm gonna kill you you tranny, ******, etc" then your into genuine threats. Ditto if it's a case of someone going out of their way to harass you like pushing leaflets through your door or crossing the street to scream it in your face often

Its comes across as really trying to use the law to enforce ridiculous levels of political correctness from individuals from the top down who send police on these matters IMO

One eyed Jack

While I may have no time for celebrities or Caitlyn Jenner anyway, it's not Caitlyn Jenner is in the wrong here. I'm happy to see police investigating the paps provoking anyone for a photo opportunity.

They may not be Pol Pot or Hitler or whoever, but neither is Caitlyn Jenner.

tomwaterford

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

It's not ok, but it's par for the course in the public eye, photographers want a shot of you looking rattled, they roar all sorts of things at people in order to get that reaction picture. That sort of grief is part of the job of being a celebrity. In an ideal world it wouldn't be and I agree it adds to the coarsening of our world. However Kaitlyn doesn't need to be everywhere plugging her book, she's chosen this circus, the tax payer shouldn't have to pay to protect her feelings.
It's a very different matter if someone is going about their normal life and is harrassed, I'd have zero tolerance for that.

Chealsea clinton is to the best of my knowlage not a celebrity/someone who activly seeks fame,just happens to be presidents daughter/her mothr ran for president??


Kaitlynn jenner is a whole different ball game(no pun intended) as i was suprised she got off scott free with tht crash the time/actively seeks attemtion....and presumably has bodygaurds

511

tomwaterford wrote: »

But when did it become ok for people to shout abuse at people going about day to day life??

It's a sacrifice you have to make you thrust yourself into a public spotlight. Celebrities make millions being public figures, so they have to expect scrutiny in return.

Atlantic Dawn

She?

Noveight

The Kardashians/Jenners will cling to anything that fuels their sh1t-show.

Someone mentioning Bruce's wang could probably fill half an hour of whatever tripe they're filming.

tomwaterford

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

It's not ok. But it's nothing short of thought crimes and a police state to start using police for this kinda thing IMO and I include a Twitter user calling another a ******, paki or cracker, etc

If you go down that line you are genuinely at the arrest people for calling someone a fat **** type of thing IMO

Now, if it's a threat of violence inciting like "I'm gonna kill you you tranny, ******, etc" then your into genuine threats. Ditto if it's a case of someone going out of their way to harass you like pushing leaflets through your door or crossing the street to scream it in your face often

Its comes across as really trying to use the law to enforce ridiculous levels of political correctness from individuals from the top down who send police on these matters IMO

So your ok with what that lad in texas done??



This incolving jenner was very low on the priorites and youll worse said in any pub tonight arpund the country....and only because shes famous wouldnt be investigated imo

Also doubt there was hate behind it.....but if you out tomorrpw and hurl abuse at your bus driver going to work to get him startles for a selfie......is it ok??

Summer wind

It's just like when the photographers shout "come on Kate get your tits out" at Katie Price. Celebs know this behaviour is to be expected from the photographers because they hope the celebrity will lose their cool in public and they'll get some juicy shots. While this is disgusting low rent behaviour Caitlin Jenner has been in the public eye long enough to know all this.

Jurgen Klopp

tomwaterford wrote: »

So your ok with what that lad in texas done??



This incolving jenner was very low on the priorites and youll worse said in any pub tonight arpund the country....and only because shes famous wouldnt be investigated imo

Also doubt there was hate behind it.....but if you out tomorrpw and hurl abuse at your bus driver going to work to get him startles for a selfie......is it ok??

No, why would you think that?

He spend ages verbally and aggressively intimidating people and I would class that as harassment, even as far as physically intimidating them and I don't care whether it's against Muslims or two white or Chinese lads doing the same to each other

However screaming at someone "get your dick out" is fcuk all as far as I'm concerned.

And whether you like it or not if the Texas man had screamed at them **** off you Muslim ***** and they screamed back **** you you white bollox I wouldn't be classing that as arresting or investigation worth offence for either if I'm honest, might make them ignorant cnuts but not arrest worthy

Edit: I've been called a Paddy **** before by an English person and some would class that as a hate crime I suppose but I'd just see it as an insult and wouldn't give a **** just called him a English cnut and kept walking

Now if for instance he kept walking in front me down the street going you Paddy cnut, who the **** do you think you are over here bla bla bla, the ya it's harassment and def would understand the cops being called but obviously you know yourself a lot might just smack him in the face or balls and carry on too depending

Tell me how

Well, we were laughing last week saying the British Police Force wouldn't waste time investigating something as ridiculous as an accusation of blasphemy.....

Really Interested

While I accept the abuse of the type should not be considered a hate crime the full facts as reported are interesting. I personally think a crime is a crime and adding hate does not usually help.

"'Someone shouted to her, "Oi, Bruce, get your d*** out". Then someone else threw something at her. It was horrible.'

A Metropolitan Police spokesman confirmed that officers had been called to the address on Friday night.

He said: 'Police were called on Friday May 12 at 11.40pm to an awards event in Great Queen Street, WC2, following an allegation of a hate crime."

So 2 things happend 1 a crude remark but followed by 2 someone threw something at her, while even that may not be a "hate crime" it may be an assault.

In any case a complaint was made the police should investigate complaints especially where an assault may have occurred. If there is nothing to it at least the met police officers might have a nice night out for a change.

Is it late or is the fact that the address was great queen street funny.

Jurgen Klopp

Really Interested wrote: »

While I accept the abuse of the type should not be considered a hate crime the full facts as reported are interesting. I personally think a crime is a crime and adding hate does not usually help.

"'Someone shouted to her, "Oi, Bruce, get your d*** out". Then someone else threw something at her. It was horrible.'

A Metropolitan Police spokesman confirmed that officers had been called to the address on Friday night.

He said: 'Police were called on Friday May 12 at 11.40pm to an awards event in Great Queen Street, WC2, following an allegation of a hate crime."

So 2 things happend 1 a crude remark but followed by 2 someone threw something at her, while even that may not be a "hate crime" it may be an assault.

In any case a complaint was made the police should investigate complaints especially where an assault may have occurred. If there is nothing to it at least the met police officers might have a nice night out for a change.

Oh Def if someone threw something at her sure it has to be looked at

_Whimsical_

Really Interested wrote: »

While I accept the abuse of the type should not be considered a hate crime the full facts as reported are interesting. I personally think a crime is a crime and adding hate does not usually help.

"'Someone shouted to her, "Oi, Bruce, get your d*** out". Then someone else threw something at her. It was horrible.'

A Metropolitan Police spokesman confirmed that officers had been called to the address on Friday night.

He said: 'Police were called on Friday May 12 at 11.40pm to an awards event in Great Queen Street, WC2, following an allegation of a hate crime."

So 2 things happend 1 a crude remark but followed by 2 someone threw something at her, while even that may not be a "hate crime" it may be an assault.

In any case a complaint was made the police should investigate complaints especially where an assault may have occurred. If there is nothing to it at least the met police officers might have a nice night out for a change.

Is it late or is the fact that the address was great queen street funny.

An attempt to injure her or physically intimidate her is different of course. That's not the cut and thrust of celebs running the gauntlet of the photographers who keep their career a float by picturing them.

RayM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

She?

Yes, she. Why do some people still have difficulty with that?

Atlantic Dawn

RayM wrote: »

Yes, she. Why do some people still have difficulty with that?

It makes a mess of insurance statistics, mortality rates etc.

Richard Hillman

Bruce Jenner put transgender rights back about a century. He is clearly just a deranged idiot that lost the plot after he killed a person. He should be differentiated from people who felt like that from birth.

Giving him "bravery" award too is completely regressive

Really Interested

JambonLover wrote: »

As he has a larger and was born a male.

No she does not it has been reported she had surgery.

Atlantic Dawn

Really Interested wrote: »

No she does not it has been reported she had surgery.

Who will pay for the 3rd tier toilet they should use? I certainly would not want to share a toilet with someone who from birth build was x but is now y, where are my rights in this bull**** PC world?

RayM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Who will pay for the 3rd tier toilet they should use? I certainly would not want to share a toilet with someone who from birth build was x but is now y, where are my rights in this bull**** PC world?

Your house must be weird.

Atlantic Dawn

RayM wrote: »

Your house must be weird.

My house toilet setup is one thing to be fair which you are right on, the public toilets are another though.

Really Interested

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Who will pay for the 3rd tier toilet they should use? I certainly would not want to share a toilet with someone who from birth build was x but is now y, where are my rights in this bull**** PC world?

You must have serious issues when you visit other people's houses. Your rights are to piss in your own private toilet after that if you use a public toilet you really have no control over the person who was there before you for all you know they may be a donkey ****er the horror. I for one don't care who uses the toilet before me as long as they don't piss or **** on the seat and leave the place clean. After that I really don't think about the other people in the toilet that just a bit too weird. Do you often wonder about the sex lives of people in public toilets.

RayM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

My house toilet setup is one thing to be fair which you are right on, the public toilets are another though.

If you have an irrational fear of using the same public toilet as someone who used to live as a woman, that's entirely your own problem though.

Atlantic Dawn

Really Interested wrote: »

You must have serious issues when you visit other people's houses. Your rights are to piss in your own private toilet after that if you use a public toilet you really have no control over the person who was there before you for all you know they may be a donkey ****er the horror. I for one don't care who uses the toilet before me as long as they don't piss or **** on the seat and leave the place clean. After that I really don't think about the other people in the toilet that just a bit too weird. Do you often wonder about the sex lives of people in public toilets.

When I am in someones house I generally know every single person there, in a public toilet scene I will know who I arrived at the venue with and even if it's my local pub possibly 10% of those in the place I will know. So if say some lad decides he wants to turn sides to be Jill instead of Bill and then in the womens toilet decides eh sorry I will change back, what happens then if he/she/neither has urges?

Really Interested

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

When I am in someones house I generally know every single person there, in a public toilet scene I will know who I arrived at the venue with and even if it's my local pub possibly 10% of those in the place I will know. So if say some lad decides he wants to turn sides to be Jill instead of Bill and then in the womens toilet decides eh sorry I will change back, what happens then if he/she/neither has urges?

Then if that person has urges call it your lucky night. Unless you smoking hot I think you will be ok, you do also know it a small subset of people actully like to follow there urges with people that are not interested and that is called rape or sexual assault and can lead to long jail time.

Tell me how

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

When I am in someones house I generally know every single person there, in a public toilet scene I will know who I arrived at the venue with and even if it's my local pub possibly 10% of those in the place I will know. So if say some lad decides he wants to turn sides to be Jill instead of Bill and then in the womens toilet decides eh sorry I will change back, what happens then if he/she/neither has urges?

So what. What is the problem? How does it affect you what they do?

You do know there are unisex toilets in businesses worldwide and there is no difficulty?

Really Interested

Tell me how wrote: »

So what. What is the problem? How does it affect you what they do?

You do know there are unisex toilets in businesses worldwide and there is no difficulty?

But but the world is full of people who are just waiting for someone of the opposite sex to enter a bathroom to ack on their urges O the horror of it, and worst are the ones who change their sex just to have sex with people in public toilets.

Yakult

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJXwjNAwFZ8

That is all.

Bobby1981

Oh how times have changed! Back in the day when I was young and lived in England. It was the height of the IRA's Bombing Campaign. As an Irish family, our windows were put through several times. Our Irish Centre was burnt to the ground. I saw one Irish lad smacked in the face by a Police Officer who dared him to smack him back just so he could 'get' him. He actually said 'Hit me back Paddy! I saw another Irish lad driven a few miles from our area and told 'Paddy walk back f*ckin home'...fair enough, he was a pain in drink but they were not doing that to him because he was a pain, they were doing it because he was Irish.....that same lad who they dumped beside a car showroom, threw a brick straight through the window of that showroom so that they would have to arrest him and he wouldnt be walking miles back anywhere!
I think they were 'hate' crimes but no one gave or give a chit!

Now you call a someone something and its a 'hate crime'...

Oh how times have changed!

Really Interested

Bobby1981 wrote: »

Oh how times have changed! Back in the day when I was young and lived in England. It was the height of the IRA's Bombing Campaign. As an Irish family, our windows were put through several times. Our Irish Centre was burnt to the ground. I saw one Irish lad smacked in the face by a Police Officer who dared him to smack him back just so he could 'get' him. He actually said 'Hit me back Paddy! I saw another Irish lad driven a few miles from our area and told 'Paddy walk back f*ckin home'...fair enough, he was a pain in drink but they were not doing that to him because he was a pain, they were doing it because he was Irish.....that same lad who they dumped beside a car showroom, threw a brick straight through the window of that showroom so that they would have to arrest him and he wouldnt be walking miles back anywhere!
I think they were 'hate' crimes but no one gave or give a chit!

Now you call a someone something and its a 'hate crime'...

Oh how times have changed!

So just because it happened to the Irish you would have no problem with another person having to put up with such actions in today's day and age.

I disagree with your asseration that no one gave a chit, many English did give a chit I had the pleasure about 20 plus years ago to meat a person who gave a chit Gareth Pierce.

And thankfully times have changed and police forces have to obey the law they should uphold.

This thread is a perfect example of the following link it was well within the thread before I posted that the allegation also included a possible assault, ignored in the thread title and by most posters, either they wished to make a point or they did not read the actual article.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2017/apr/19/is-political-correctness-gone-mad-a-lie-video[URL][/url]

Bobby1981

Really Interested wrote: »

So just because it happened to the Irish you would have no problem with another person having to put up with such actions in today's day and age.

I disagree with your asseration that no one gave a chit, many English did give a chit I had the pleasure about 20 plus years ago to meat a person who gave a chit Gareth Pierce.

And thankfully times have changed and police forces have to obey the law they should uphold.

Wrong! I would for sure have a problem with 'another person having to put up with such actions today'. Being called a name or even being shamed is not quite the same as being terrorised ) and I have been all three...no lie!_ and I have been called far worse than foookin Caitlyn Jenner. I don't agree with anyone saying anything wrong to her or anyone else but its bullchit compared to what some folk have to put up with.

And I will not argue with you that maybe some English gave a chit....now they do.....Back then, I am sure some did too but I can honestly tell you I never met many who did. My next door neighbour later on in another place was English . He hated me playing Irish Music but he liked me enough to just moan about it in drink:) I actually still have a lot of time for him, he was everything I am not, he didnt have much time for the Irish but he and I had a healthy banter thing going for years. Plus he has a certain image of Irish and I did much to amplify and dispell that over the years:P I still have good time for him and he for me. In fact he made me a Godchild to his twins. He was a product of his time and me of mine.

With all due respect Gareth Pierce was the exception rather than the rule back then. I Thank God for her too. She was amazing.

As for Police Forces having to obey the law they uphold.....have you seen the news lately

IsaacWunder

Bobby1981 wrote: »

Oh how times have changed! Back in the day when I was young and lived in England. It was the height of the IRA's Bombing Campaign. As an Irish family, our windows were put through several times. Our Irish Centre was burnt to the ground. I saw one Irish lad smacked in the face by a Police Officer who dared him to smack him back just so he could 'get' him. He actually said 'Hit me back Paddy! I saw another Irish lad driven a few miles from our area and told 'Paddy walk back f*ckin home'...fair enough, he was a pain in drink but they were not doing that to him because he was a pain, they were doing it because he was Irish.....that same lad who they dumped beside a car showroom, threw a brick straight through the window of that showroom so that they would have to arrest him and he wouldnt be walking miles back anywhere!
I think they were 'hate' crimes but no one gave or give a chit!

Now you call a someone something and its a 'hate crime'...

Oh how times have changed!

What a stupid point. I'll bet you loved the crying game.

Really Interested

Bobby1981 wrote: »

Wrong! I would for sure have a problem with 'another person having to put up with such actions today'. Being called a name or even being shamed is not quite the same as being terrorised ) and I have been all three...no lie!_ and I have been called far worse than foookin Caitlyn Jenner. I don't agree with anyone saying anything wrong to her or anyone else but its bullchit compared to what some folk have to put up with.

And I will not argue with you that maybe some English gave a chit....now they do.....Back then, I am sure some did too but I can honestly tell you I never met many who did. My next door neighbour later on in another place was English . He hated me playing Irish Music but he liked me enough to just moan about it in drink:) I actually still have a lot of time for him, he was everything I am not, he didnt have much time for the Irish but he and I had a healthy banter thing going for years. Plus he has a certain image of Irish and I did much to amplify and dispell that over the years:P I still have good time for him and he for me. In fact he made me a Godchild to his twins. He was a product of his time and me of mine.

With all due respect Gareth Pierce was the exception rather than the rule back then. I Thank God for her too. She was amazing.

As for Police Forces having to obey the law they uphold.....have you seen the news lately

Did you read the article while it said she was insulted it also said someone threw something at her. From the article in the OP "It is also claimed that someone threw something at her while the vile comments were being made."

Yes police forces are doing Wong, but unlike the 80's it's now coming into the open and people are being held to account. Do you really think in this day an age a police officer would not be taking a serious risk by doing the things you saw happen in the 80's.

Bobby1981

Really Interested wrote: »

Did you read the article while it said she was insulted it also said someone threw something at her.

Yes police forces are doing Wong, but unlike the 80's it's now coming into the open and people are being held to account. Do you really think in this day an age a police officer would not be taking a serious risk by doing the things you saw happen in the 80's.

With all respect to you , I did not read the article but I will do it now. I was bullied back in my day and I would not like to see it happen to anyone else for any reason. If someone threw something at her then that was so very wrong. I did not see the article posted when I made my post but I will read it now.

As for Police Forces today being held to account.....taking a risk and doing what they did back in 80's.......Yes they are...they are doing some of the same thing. Thats not to say there are not good Police Officers, there are...but have you really not seen what is going on lately with some of them ? And no...they are not being held to account....for real.

Bobby1981

IsaacWunder wrote: »

What a stupid point. I'll bet you loved the crying game.

It is not a stupid point. It is just an opinion different from yours.
And no, I didn't love The Crying Game....although I think it would be a great title for a song:D

Really Interested

Bobby1981 wrote: »

With all respect to you , I did not read the article but I will do it now. I was bullied back in my day and I would not like to see it happen to anyone else for any reason. If someone threw something at her then that was so very wrong. I did not see the article posted when I made my post but I will read it now.

As for Police Forces today being held to account.....taking a risk and doing what they did back in 80's.......Yes they are...they are doing some of the same thing. Thats not to say there are not good Police Officers, there are...but have you really not seen what is going on lately with some of them ? And no...they are not being held to account....for real.

Do you have any cases of police actully beating people as happened in 70's and 80's are you aware of any people giving a confession after a lighter was held to there nads. While some officers act beyond the pale in the past they did so with no risk to themselves or job now they have to answer for their actions.

Being bullied is a terrible thing no matter for what reason especially if there is the possibility of or actual violence. It is not Political Corectness gone made for a police force to investigate a allegation that something was thrown at a person no matter who or why.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Bruce Jenner has a mental illness.

Really Interested

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Bruce Jenner has a mental illness.

And? Your point?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Really Interested wrote: »

And? Your point?

I don't think he should be using his celebrity to force it upon the masses. He needed help, not a cock transplant.

Ken.

Mod-Thread locked for review. There will be bans.

Ken.

Sorry bout the delay. This thread is being reopened.

Any reference to Caitlin Jenner as 'he' will be frowned upon in the thread. We accept that folk may confuse the pronoun but there are others that use it in a malicious way. So to remove any ambiguity, Caitlin Jenner should be referred to as 'she' from here on.
Please discuss the topic within the terms of the charter and a reminder to be civil to each other.

yourdeadwright

Iv nothing against Trans enders or anyone for that matter, each to there own and all that and if your a nice person your a nice person regardless off sex or gender , but my question is why is it she ?
I'm not being smart but surely even if he has had surgery he is still not a male ? I'm actually asking the question here iv no idea but would his DNA  not still be that of a male , or is it just she cause that's what Caitlin like to be called ?
Again I don't mean to offend anyone just asking the question