Syrian Refugees

Nokia6230i

Carlow Co. Co. recent monthly meeting was addressed by the two members on the Irish Refugee Protection Programme on Monday.

The finer details weren't outlined going by a Cllrs. social media page r/g to where they'd be staying initially (given the figures mentioned of 80 incl. 40 Children we'd be talking a hotel like the Talbot in reality or perhaps Otterholt or spread between a number of similar similar accommodation providers?) before, hopefully, being dispersed to individual accommodation as per their make up (family/single people/couples) in time once they've undergone a resettlement programme, English Lessons (as reqd.) and other orientation, assimilation and integration training.

This has been well flagged; I recall an announcement being made in the slow news week that is between Christmas Day 2015 & NYD 2016 that locally, Kilkenny, Carlow & Portlaoise were chosen among other locations nationwide.

In 2016 the IRC/Irish Red Cross put out a call seeking expressions of interest from accommodation providers of all sorts from hotels, hostels to private dwellings.

However this was misinterpreted by some and they did receive offers from those with spare rms.; these were deemed unsuitable to their needs from the point of view of families and the desire to have their own entrances rather than shared.

The suitable accommodation was and is assessed so they must have secured sufficient offers locally; Kilkenny and Portaloise will be next.

Not sure if I can link here to the Cllr. in questions social media page (it's 100% public and in fairness, without fail he posts the agenda every month) but it quite quickly raced into a right wing sh1t storm in many ways.

His Status Update with agenda was done without fear or favour to either (if there's only two) side of the debate also.

They're due to arrive between now & the Autumn (September) due to academic year & a desire to get the kids into schools I guess...

So opinions please.........

Owryan

Torn on this issue. I ve worked with refugees so can understand why they are coming here, but I am also working with homeless families.

I have to wonder how the council is able to secure houses for the refugees when they don't display the same urgency for local families.

At last I now get what my ethics lecturer was going on about.

Will there be extra supports put in place in the schools or will they come from what's already there?

What about access to gp's? people are already having difficulty finding a practice that will take them on as it is

Bog Man 1

Some of the Refugees might be doctors and I do not think they come from a dependency culture . I do not think they are looking for handouts longterm and will probably contribute more to society when they get over the transitional phase .
For f,,,,k sake do not start collecting second hand clothes for them .It is insulting and degrading and their self esteem will be low enough being uprooted from their country without wearing my castoffs . New clothes can be got at reasonable prices from the shops in Carlow .
For the reckord I do on occasion wear second hand clothes and at the moment I am walking in a dead mans boots thanks to the kindness of a relative .

Agent Coulson

I have no issue with the Country/County taking in refugees they are a people who need somewhere to go and live in safety.


I'd have more of an issue with our/EU open borders policy with all the newly added and soon to be added EU member States citizens moving into Ireland without having a jobs or accommodation here for them.

Owryan

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

Some of the Refugees might be doctors and I do not think they come from a dependency culture . I do not think they are looking for handouts longterm and will probably contribute more to society when they get over the transitional phase .
For f,,,,k sake do not start collecting second hand clothes for them .It is insulting and degrading and their self esteem will be low enough being uprooted from their country without wearing my castoffs . New clothes can be got at reasonable prices from the shops in Carlow .
For the reckord I do on occasion wear second hand clothes and at the moment I am walking in a dead mans boots thanks to the kindness of a relative .

You might be right, one of the refugees might be a doctor who has the papers and proof of qualification to start working here or the money to set up his own practice.

The reality is they will need extensive support to settle and become part of the wider community.

I would like to know will those resources be supplied or come from what is already here and right now Carlow is seriously deficient in family supports. In other areas, resources have been taken from different sectors and allocated to helping refugees. To me that is not right.

Not sure who or what the second hand clothes remark was about. Don't see anyone mentioning it.

JaCrispy

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

Some of the Refugees might be doctors and I do not think they come from a dependency culture . I do not think they are looking for handouts longterm and will probably contribute more to society when they get over the transitional phase .

That's a whole lot of if, buts, maybes and probablys. Bottom line is that they'll need food, housing, medical care and god knows what else, for a considerable length of time.

The very things we are failing to provide for thousands of Irish people already.

longshanks

Why separate it into a them and us issue?
Why not just a people who need help issue, whether they be local or refugee?

road_high

longshanks wrote: »

Why separate it into a them and us issue?
Why not just a people who need help issue, whether they be local or refugee?

Why have borders or citizenship at all then? Let them all in, have a free for all

Owryan

longshanks wrote: »

Why separate it into a them and us issue?
Why not just a people who need help issue, whether they be local or refugee?

It becomes an issue when there is a perception that "furriners" are getting preferential treatment, regardless of whether or not they are coming from refugee camps.

Like I said I believe we should help but only if extra resources are provided and not at the expense of resources being re directed away from where they are needed.

Donal55

I listened to some 'fly on the wall' interviews with some Syrian people who are in EROC accomodation in Ballaghaderreen on Shannonside radio a few weeks back.

The general consensus appeared to be that they liked the people and place but would much prefer to have more than €19.00 per week and would rather be in cities than small towns.

Govt and CoCo should look at the towns where they are sending these people. Poor transport facilities, poor state infrastructure and services and very few social/recreational outlets be they cinemas, swimming pools,etc.

JaCrispy

longshanks wrote: »

Why separate it into a them and us issue?
Why not just a people who need help issue, whether they be local or refugee?

Quite a simplistic view of a convoluted problem. Do you concede that there is a problem with homelessness, healthcare and poverty in Ireland already?

iwillhtfu

Donal55 wrote: »

I listened to some 'fly on the wall' interviews with some Syrian people who are in EROC accomodation in Ballaghaderreen on Shannonside radio a few weeks back.

The general consensus appeared to be that they liked the people and place but would much prefer to have more than €19.00 per week and would rather be in cities than small towns.

Presumably a hell of a lot better than where they've come from I'd imagine. The aim is to provide refugees safety and the ability to integrate not to set them up in a bachelor pad.

Donal55 wrote: »

Govt and CoCo should look at the towns where they are sending these people. Poor transport facilities, poor state infrastructure and services and very few social/recreational outlets be they cinemas, swimming pools,etc.

Interestingly some of our own citizens are already stuck in this position and burdened with a heavy debt and inability to improve their position. You make the most of what you have not look for someone else to improve this for you. Why bring refugees and set them up on our already rife welfare lifestyle. I'm all for helping btw but to automatically assume you,I or anyone else deserves better is wrong imo.

Bog Man 1

JaCrispy wrote: »

Quite a simplistic view of a convoluted problem. Do you concede that there is a problem with homelessness, healthcare and poverty in Ireland already?

Homelessness . There is not enough houses to buy or rent and they are too expensive for people on average to lower income .
When the country had no money it was able to build houses for rich and poor .
There is no justification for children living in hotels . Build houses and stop talking about it .
Healthcare .Very good hospitals with well trained staff and pharmacys with all the proscribed drugs you need for €144 a month .

Poverty . If brexit goes wrong you will be looking back to the good days of 2017 . There is more poverty of the mind than real poverty .

There is no justification for not taking in Syrian refugees . There will be problems but deal with them when they arise .

JaCrispy

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

Homelessness . There is not enough houses to buy or rent and they are too expensive for people on average to lower income .
When the country had no money it was able to build houses for rich and poor .
There is no justification for children living in hotels . Build houses and stop talking about it .
Healthcare .Very good hospitals with well trained staff and pharmacys with all the proscribed drugs you need for €144 a month .

Poverty . If brexit goes wrong you will be looking back to the good days of 2017 . There is more poverty of the mind than real poverty .

There is no justification for not taking in Syrian refugees . There will be problems but deal with them when they arise .

Great.
Can you answer this question? Do you concede that there is a problem with homelessness, healthcare and poverty in Ireland already?

road_high

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Presumably a hell of a lot better than where they've come from I'd imagine. The aim is to provide refugees safety and the ability to integrate not to set them up in a bachelor pad.

Interestingly some of our own citizens are already stuck in this position and burdened with a heavy debt and inability to improve their position. You make the most of what you have not look for someone else to improve this for you. Why bring refugees and set them up on our already rife welfare lifestyle. I'm all for helping btw but to automatically assume you,I or anyone else deserves better is wrong imo.

Glad I wasn't the only one having a "wtf" moment seeing that clip on tv last week...as you rightly point out, 1000s of our own working, taxpaying citizens are forced to live in commuter towns 100 km from Dublin to merely afford a place to live...so it's a little hard to stomach listening to refugees from war torn lands moan about being put up in the safety of Ballaghedereen for free.
The last thing should happen is to get them in on our joke of a welfare system. Far too many scroungers hooked up to that already without adding even more.

Owryan

road_high wrote: »

Glad I wasn't the only one having a "wtf" moment seeing that clip on tv last week...as you rightly point out, 1000s of our own working, taxpaying citizens are forced to live in commuter towns 100 km from Dublin to merely afford a place to live...so it's a little hard to stomach listening to refugees from war torn lands moan about being put up for me in the safety of Ballaghedereen for free.
The last thing should happen is to get them in on our joke of a welfare system. Far too many scroungers hooked up to that already without adding even more.

Any word on how many are going to be settled in Kilkenny yet? The figures I was told was approx 200.

Jurgen Klopp

road_high wrote: »

Glad I wasn't the only one having a "wtf" moment seeing that clip on tv last week...as you rightly point out, 1000s of our own working, taxpaying citizens are forced to live in commuter towns 100 km from Dublin to merely afford a place to live...so it's a little hard to stomach listening to refugees from war torn lands moan about being put up for me in the safety of Ballaghedereen for free.
The last thing should happen is to get them in on our joke of a welfare system. Far too many scroungers hooked up to that already without adding even more.

If i was running away from certain death and suffering i think a nice quiet rural area where I'm safe and have food and a nice place to sleep would be brilliant.

If on the other hand I'm actually an economic migrant pretending to be a refugee who expects every demand met then maybe i might be whinging about boredom, I'm sure tho that's not the case at all with any of them

road_high

Owryan wrote: »

Any word on how many are going to be settled in Kilkenny yet? The figures I was told was approx 200.

I've not heard a thing...though I think I've seen a few around...Kilkenny is at breaking point with lack of accommodation, Carlow town is not too far behind. Rents have shot through the roof. Adding 200 refugees to that is not going to help- they should be accommodated in areas of very cheap rent and low pressure/demand. It's just common sense.

Owryan

road_high wrote: »

I've not heard a thing...though I think I've seen a few around...Kilkenny is at breaking point with lack of accommodation, Carlow town is not too far behind. Rents have shot through the roof. Adding 200 refugees to that is not going to help- they should be accommodated in areas of very cheap rent and low pressure/demand. It's just common sense.

You were doing so well until you said "common sense" ðŸ˜

Bog Man 1

JaCrispy wrote: »

Great.
Can you answer this question? Do you concede that there is a problem with homelessness, healthcare and poverty in Ireland already?

There are not enough houses being built and developers are not getting enough bank money to build them . I know a builder that is building 100 houses but he has to build them a few at a time and sell them to finance the next batch . If he got enough money he could build twenty five at a time
Most people when surveyed leaving Hospital are happy with their treatment despite the perceived opinion . I find the VHI very expensive . It is costing me over €3000 a year and I still have to pay the consultant €200 and can only claim back when I reach a threshold .
There is Poverty . The poorest place in Ireland is south of the line from New Ross to Wexford town .
We should still take in refugees .

JaCrispy

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

There are not enough houses being built and developers are not getting enough bank money to build them . I know a builder that is building 100 houses but he has to build them a few at a time and sell them to finance the next batch . If he got enough money he could build twenty five at a time
Most people when surveyed leaving Hospital are happy with their treatment despite the perceived opinion . I find the VHI very expensive . It is costing me over €3000 a year and I still have to pay the consultant €200 and can only claim back when I reach a threshold .
There is Poverty . The poorest place in Ireland is south of the line from New Ross to Wexford town .

Ignoring the fact I was talking about homelessness and not building of houses. And the fact our health services are at full capacity with patients sleeping on trolleys on hospital corridors. You are painting a fairly grim picture of those issues I highlighted.

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

We should still take in refugees .

You must be a specialist in non sequiturs. How can you logically say that we ignore the social issues that are plainly evident and further burden these services by bringing in refugees?
Surely the worst way to resolve a problem is to add to it.

SligoBrewer

Do you want me to post pictures of the country that they are coming from? Do you honestly think that our problems come close to what is going on in Syria? Does anyone actually think that Ireland is so ****ed up that we couldn't help people?

At some stage, we have to be human beings and realise that these people are also human beings that come from a very very dangerous place. We should do everything in our power to help people that are less fortunate than ourselves, whether they are from Aleppo or they live next door to me.

As people with consciences we shouldn't get trapped up in this utter farce that is "looking after your own first", or "charity begins at home". These people have lost every single thing in their entire lives. They need help. I don't care what passport they have or what they can offer our society. What we should be asking ourselves is, "What can we do to help people who have lost everything?". If there's anything that I can do as a member of Carlow to help these people, I'll be there. We all should.

iwillhtfu

SligoBrewer wrote: »

As people with consciences we shouldn't get trapped up in this utter farce that is "looking after your own first", or "charity begins at home". These people have lost every single thing in their entire lives. They need help. I don't care what passport they have or what they can offer our society. What we should be asking ourselves is, "What can we do to help people who have lost everything?". If there's anything that I can do as a member of Carlow to help these people, I'll be there. We all should.

I think you're tainting the majority with the views of the minority. I do agree we should help to the full extent of our ability but also it has to be questioned why would a refugee leave a war torn country to be housed in a safe environment then complain that they would prefer to be housed in the capital or at least in each County town.

I understand this is also the views of the minority in refugees but simply by being labelled a refugee doesn't give a person carte blanche regardless of who or where they're from.

It's simple economics at the end of the day that housing refugees in smaller towns makes sense with regards to rent but then if there is no infrastructure in place the government shouldn't be required to divert funds from elsewhere to provide this infrastructure.

It's a difficult balance and one we should easily achieve if it weren't for the amount of squandered money by our government. At some point though you have to realise that providing a starving family with shelter in your already starving home will result in ya all starving together.

maccored

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I think you're tainting the majority with the views of the minority. I do agree we should help to the full extent of our ability but also it has to be questioned why would a refugee leave a war torn country to be housed in a safe environment then complain that they would prefer to be housed in the capital or at least in each County town.

I understand this is also the views of the minority in refugees but simply by being labelled a refugee doesn't give a person carte blanche regardless of who or where they're from.

It's simple economics at the end of the day that housing refugees in smaller towns makes sense with regards to rent but then if there is no infrastructure in place the government shouldn't be required to divert funds from elsewhere to provide this infrastructure.

It's a difficult balance and one we should easily achieve if it weren't for the amount of squandered money by our government. At some point though you have to realise that providing a starving family with shelter in your already starving home will result in ya all starving together.

too many people put the blame for that on the refugees, rather than the people who are meant to manage the country - ie, the elected government

Help!!!!

Donal55 wrote: »

I listened to some 'fly on the wall' interviews with some Syrian people who are in EROC accomodation in Ballaghaderreen on Shannonside radio a few weeks back.

The general consensus appeared to be that they liked the people and place but would much prefer to have more than €19.00 per week and would rather be in cities than small towns.

Govt and CoCo should look at the towns where they are sending these people. Poor transport facilities, poor state infrastructure and services and very few social/recreational outlets be they cinemas, swimming pools,etc.

Give it time & there will be a riot so they get what they want. Its happened in other countries it will happen here. The problem is that they are not refugees but economic migrants. Refugees will go to the first safe country not travel thousands of miles across many countries. They would all be safe in Saudi Arabia, why are they not going there?

SligoBrewer

Help!!!! wrote: »

Give it time & there will be a riot so they get what they want. Its happened in other countries it will happen here. The problem is that they are not refugees but economic migrants. Refugees will go to the first safe country not travel thousands of miles across many countries. They would all be safe in Saudi Arabia, why are they not going there?

They're getting to the safety of Southern Europe and being spread out from there by the EU.

Help!!!!

SligoBrewer wrote: »

They're getting to the safety of Southern Europe and being spread out from there by the EU.

They were safe in Turkey...they would be safe in Saudi Arabia & the other gulf states also. Ireland is still suffering from the recession bringing more people here only makes things worse for everyone. Dont believe the BS that they are all Doctors etc because its not true.

road_high

maccored wrote: »

too many people put the blame for that on the refugees, rather than the people who are meant to manage the country - ie, the elected government

So as well as everything they get the blame for, they can add housing refugees from countries with nothing to do with us to the list also....

road_high

Help!!!! wrote: »

Give it time & there will be a riot so they get what they want. Its happened in other countries it will happen here. The problem is that they are not refugees but economic migrants. Refugees will go to the first safe country not travel thousands of miles across many countries. They would all be safe in Saudi Arabia, why are they not going there?

You know why...because Saudi Arabia is a brutal repressive state- here they can do and say as they please, cushioned by the most generous welfare state on the planet, all backed up by a steady chorus of erstwhile do-gooders. It's no brainer!

maccored

road_high wrote: »

So as well as everything they get the blame for, they can add housing refugees from countries with nothing to do with us to the list also....

that's a weird logic you have there.

the government get the blame for a lack of housing. Maybe you think that's the refugees problem ? As for refugees coming to Ireland, you may take that up with the EU.

road_high

maccored wrote: »

that's a weird logic you have there.

the government get the blame for a lack of housing. Maybe you think that's the refugees problem ? As for refugees coming to Ireland, you may take that up with the EU.

It is their problem...obviously if they are coming here they're clearly adding to an already overburdened system. It's not our states function to house a and other "refugees" from all corners of the globe. As a nation you simply can't take on all the problems of other nations.
The govt never housed me or any of my family- I always viewed that as my own personal responsibility in life, as do all my family. The notion of the state providing and paying for that is an alien concept to me. Thank god