TDs have voted to make it compulsory to stand during the Dail prayer

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Everything has an origin in something or other. The selection of Christmas in the calendar owes itself to some pagan winter festival that predated Christianity.

Ultimately what you're trying to say is balls and utterly irrelevant to a national Parliament mandating under threat of penalty a prayer to a god.

RobertKK wrote: »

So it is celebrated these days as the birth of Christ, only you want to argue the current Irish state was founded in Pagan times?

What is the actual threat mandated?

lawred2 wrote: »

lol

You have serious comprehension problems. Where on earth did you get that from?

Robert?

AryaStark

realdanbreen wrote: »

There's a lot more to being a catholic than going to mass on Sunday. The childish notion that if you don't go to mass every sunday then you're not a catholic is amusing at this stage.

How about the childish notion that you can live a life that goes against all the teaching of the catholic church, not go to mass and sin away, and still call yourself a catholic.

Nobody who I know can call themselves a true catholic by the teachings of the bible. People need to grow up and get over this need to be judged and forgiven.

PopePalpatine

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Not convinced it "held a nation together" at all. Religion DOES have the potential to sometimes bind people together. So too does following a premier league football team. But it also, often with horrendous results, has the potential to be divisive or by the focal point for existing divisions, which this Island and this world in general has ALSO seen in horrific abundance too.

But by all means demonstrate that it has held a nation together rather than, at best, merely been one of the focal points for a nation that was holding ITSELF together. Because alas this is what religion does often......... associates itself with some ideal or benefit that it itself adds nothing to or, worse, positively hampers or harms.

It "held a nation together" in the same sense as a prison chain gang holds prisoners together.

Ush1

Just thinking, how strange is it that you have to kneel in a church? All very submissive isn't it? Sorta 50 shades of grey type stuff...

tomwaterford

Ush1 wrote: »

Just thinking, how strange is it that you have to kneel in a church? All very submissive isn't it? Sorta 50 shades of grey type stuff...

Down where my dad comes from most of his cousins/relatives stand at the back

(Though they've had issues with the church/being threatened with excommunication across a couple of generations)

endacl

techdiver wrote: »

There are no words!.... :mad::mad::mad:

Well, there are:

"Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."



There are no words for the 30 seconds 'silent reflection' bit that follows. Coz it's silent, like.

Woodville56

AryaStark wrote: »

realdanbreen wrote: »

There's a lot more to being a catholic than going to mass on Sunday. The childish notion that if you don't go to mass every sunday then you're not a catholic is amusing at this stage.

How about the childish notion that you can live a life that goes against all the teaching of the catholic church, not go to mass and sin away, and still call yourself a catholic.

Nobody who I know can call themselves a true catholic by the teachings of the bible. People need to grow up and get over this need to be judged and forgiven.

Just as well we're not all " true Catholics " as you term it - then we'd have no divorce , no same sex marriage etc. In reality, fundamentalist Catholics are few and far between. So those of us who profess a faith do our best, follow our conscience as best we can, admittedly there's some degree of "ala carte" about it but still, who'se perfect ? Seems like we're dammed if we're fundamentalists and equally criticized if we're on the softer side of Catholicism ?

AryaStark

RobertKK wrote: »

I still don't think it is a big deal, and the people who say it is a Catholic prayer are being very selective as it is Christian in nature.

Jesus did say to "love one another" so maybe that is the problem here...people would rather hate something that makes others different rather than simply stand to show respect to their fellow humans who as a large majority voted for these measures in their workplace.

I for one am an Atheist and do not believe in Jesus which means that whatever he said is a load of rubbish made up to control the masses.

Looks like it is still working in Ireland and the sheep stand and follow what ever they are told to!

realdanbreen

VinLieger wrote: »

Wow a religiously conservative socialist, i though they were just a myth

I guess it's just another thing you got wrong !

Woodville56

AryaStark wrote: »

RobertKK wrote: »

I still don't think it is a big deal, and the people who say it is a Catholic prayer are being very selective as it is Christian in nature.

Jesus did say to "love one another" so maybe that is the problem here...people would rather hate something that makes others different rather than simply stand to show respect to their fellow humans who as a large majority voted for these measures in their workplace.

I for one am an Atheist and do not believe in Jesus which means that whatever he said is a load of rubbish made up to control the masses.

Looks like it is still working in Ireland and the sheep stand and follow what ever they are told to!

At last count that would be over four million sheep - all woolly headed with not a brain cell between them, all brainwashed and incapable of having a secular view on anything, yeah ?

realdanbreen

tomwaterford wrote: »

Down where my dad comes from most of his cousins/relatives stand at the back

Aw Shucks! how quaint.

realdanbreen

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

They're not though...

So you reckon that one candidate in a two candidate race is not on the verge or close to being elected?

VinLieger

Woodville56 wrote: »

At last count that would be over four million sheep - all woolly headed with not a brain cell between them, all brainwashed and incapable of having a secular view on anything, yeah ?

Emm your data might be a bit out of date there its more like 3.7 million at the last count, hasn't been over 4 million for quite some time even if you consider the census results for the specific question to be accurate.

tomwaterford

realdanbreen wrote: »

Aw Shucks! how quaint.

Quality contribution as usual

kylith

Woodville56 wrote: »

but is it so onerous for the minority to respect the expressed vote of the majority ? It's only a minute in total out of the working day ?

I suggest you look into something called 'the tyranny of the masses'. Simply put: part of the government's job is to protect minority groups from having their rights trampled on by the vote of the majority. For example: most of the population could vote to allow beating up LGBTQ people but then the government would step in and beating up people because of their orientation would remain illegal because regardless of what the majority says some things are still wrong.

Discriminating against non-Christians by fining them or excluding them from their place of work unless they participate in a Christian ritual is tyranny of masses.

realdanbreen

AryaStark wrote: »

.

I am so embarrassed to be Irish at the minute. QUOTE]

Unbelieveable!

tomwaterford

kylith wrote: »

Discriminating against non-Christians by fining them or excluding them from their place of work unless they participate in a Christian ritual is tyranny of masses.

Pretty sure this should fall under a work placement discrimination act....as one of main areas in work, you can't discriminate on is religion??

Woodville56

VinLieger wrote: »

Woodville56 wrote: »

At last count that would be over four million sheep - all woolly headed with not a brain cell between them, all brainwashed and incapable of having a secular view on anything, yeah ?

Emm your data might be a bit out of date there its more like 3.7 million at the last count, hasn't been over 4 million for quite some time even if you consider the census results for the specific question to be accurate.

I stand corrected on the 4 million , likewise on the accuracy question - ''twas probably all the Legion of Mary mammies with the priests looking over their shoulder who completed that question on the Census form.

kylith

tomwaterford wrote: »

Pretty sure this should fall under a work placement discrimination act....as one of main areas in work, you can't discriminate on is religion??

I've been thinking about that. Either it is a work event, in which case you can't discriminate because of religion, or it's not a work event, in which case you can't suspend or dock the pay of someone who does not choose to participate.

Woodville56

kylith wrote: »

Woodville56 wrote: »

but is it so onerous for the minority to respect the expressed vote of the majority ? It's only a minute in total out of the working day ?

I suggest you look into something called 'the tyranny of the masses'. Simply put: part of the government's job is to protect minority groups from having their rights trampled on by the vote of the majority. For example: most of the population could vote to allow beating up LGBTQ people but then the government would step in and beating up people because of their orientation would remain illegal because regardless of what the majority says some things are still wrong.

Discriminating against non-Christians by fining them or excluding them from their place of work unless they participate in a Christian ritual is tyranny of masses.

And I'd suggest you reread my postings where I've said on several occasions that excluding non christians or penalizing them for non participation was inappropriate and unacceptable

tomwaterford

kylith wrote: »

I've been thinking about that. Either it is a work event, in which case you can't discriminate because of religion, or it's not a work event, in which case you can't suspend or dock the pay of someone who does not choose to participate.

There is the outside chance that the dail might be excluded specifically (though I find it hard to imagine they are for this legislation)


Either way,take a moment to recall that this motion was adopted as a counter measure to abolish the prayer thing in place of quiet reflection!
Bizzare.....wonder wholl be the first to challenge this in the courts?

screamer

Oh outrage outrage...... They've done a lot worse with no outcry from the masses (no pun intended)........ Pathetic to be so outraged over this. Don't wanna stand or pray you don't have to attend.... About time we grew up and focused our outrage on important matters.

VinLieger

kylith wrote: »

I've been thinking about that. Either it is a work event, in which case you can't discriminate because of religion, or it's not a work event, in which case you can't suspend or dock the pay of someone who does not choose to participate.

Heres an interesting question, IF a TD is suspended and misses a vote, then takes an action and wins against the legality of said suspension could that vote then be ruled invalid?

tomwaterford

screamer wrote: »

Oh outrage outrage...... They've done a lot worse with no outcry from the masses (no pun intended)........ Pathetic to be so outraged over this. Don't wanna stand or pray you don't have to attend.... About time we grew up and focused our outrage on important matters.

Pretty much saying if you don't want to take part in forced religious practices........then dont go to work?

realdanbreen

tomwaterford wrote: »

There is the outside chance that the dail might be excluded specifically (though I find it hard to imagine they are for this legislation)


Either way,take a moment to recall that this motion was adopted as a counter measure to abolish the prayer thing in place of quiet reflection!
Bizzare.....wonder wholl be the first to challenge this in the courts?

Can't see your buddies in Sinn Fein taking a case anyway seeing as they voted for it.

lawred2

screamer wrote: »

Oh outrage outrage...... They've done a lot worse with no outcry from the masses (no pun intended)........ Pathetic to be so outraged over this. Don't wanna stand or pray you don't have to attend.... About time we grew up and focused our outrage on important matters.

You don't have to attend our national parliament?

That's well reasoned out.

I agree that it is indeed about time that we grew up.

lawred2

realdanbreen wrote: »

Can't see your buddies in Sinn Fein taking a case anyway seeing as they voted for it.

They didn't.

VinLieger

realdanbreen wrote: »

Can't see your buddies in Sinn Fein taking a case anyway seeing as they voted for it.

Actually they abstained from the vote that won

tomwaterford

realdanbreen wrote: »

Can't see your buddies in Sinn Fein taking a case anyway seeing as they voted for it.

I didn't name any political parties.....I do think the proper running of the dail should be above party politics


If your happy to in 2017 have religion rimmed down peoples throat....who am I to argue againest such outdated thinking

ScumLord

kylith wrote: »

I suggest you look into something called 'the tyranny of the masses'.

Ah father Brendan wasn't that bad.. Oh Tyranny.. I thought you said something else.