Would you kill an intruder if you were guaranteed to get away scot free?

Beyondgone

smelly sock wrote: »

Ok then. Tough break.

But you done nothing wrong. You cant legislate for little bastards like that.

I'm shaking replying to this thread tho. Muscles twitching like you wouldn't believe, because "been there, done that" and it was such a sh1t time afterwards I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. If I had it back to do over, I'd have rung 999 and stayed in our room. Not worth the grief. Scumbags never come alone - they always have 20 bad pennies behind them.

smelly sock

Beyondgone wrote: »

I'm shaking replying to this thread tho. Muscles twitching like you wouldn't believe, because "been there, done that" and it was such a sh1t time afterwards I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. If I had it back to do over, I'd have rung 999 and stayed in our room. Not worth the grief. Scumbags never come alone - they always have 20 bad pennies behind them.

Yeh but hindsight is wonderful thing. There and then you had to make call and you did.

They went through your front door with a sledge? Your bedroom door would have been light work.

Manic Moran

You have to be alive today to worry about the guys out for you tomorrow.

The reality is that although nobody can guarantee ahead of time how they would react, there are enough people in the world who will respond to a home intrusion with force. We have a saying over on this side of the water, that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Around here, one in four burglaries occur with the homeowner present. (Much less than in the U.K., given that intruding upon a US homeowner can realistically be a fatal error). The more important figure, for the homeowner, is that about one in four of those result in the homeowner being subjected to violent crime.

Those are not great odds. Those who resisted with violence were somewhat less likely to be "successful" vicimes, and those who used a firearm were less likely to be injured.

While I understand where you are coming from, one bridge is to be crossed at a time.

Manic Moran

Double post.

OldMrBrennan83

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Samuel T. Cogley

Patww79 wrote: »

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It's not even you're standard burglar, 90% of which won't try and burgal the place when someone is there. 99% of those will leg it if they hear someone in the place. It's the tiny, tiny minority that stand their ground or that are too stupid to get the feck out. They deserve to get whatever injury they get from a lawful occupier going only as far as they thought reasonable, if only to serve as a deterant to other burglars.

pilly

I really can't believe the amount of people on here that think it's okay to take a persons life for breaking and entering.

Seriously lads, get a grip! We're talking about KILLING someone here. Someone who has a mother, father, possibly lots of other family.

Personally, I have a key in my bedroom door, someone breaks in during the night I lock that door and call the police. I'm not going risking my life for a few electronic devices.

And before someone rants about protecting your children how many burglars go near children? I've never heard of one case. You'd swear there was a plague of them.

It's all hard talk in my view. If it wasn't there'd be a lot more than one case of a burglar being killed in Ireland wouldn't there?

It would be happening every night of the week going off this thread.

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Samuel T. Cogley

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Exactly this!

It's not about the DVD player or the telly, it's that if you break into my home, you try and make me the victim, expect me to try my damndest to prevent that.

blinding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQcgcmZvv28

There probably is a little bit of this in all of us.....

Maybe , But I would probably regret it afterwards......

sbsquarepants

Berserker wrote: »

One of the reasons why I would like to see guns being made more freely available in Ireland. The thought of getting shot would make the little tramps think twice about breaking into your home.

That's not how it works out though - it actually ends up that the little scummer breaking into your house is more likely to be armed himself. Just look at the states - every tom, dick and (dirty) harry being armed to the teeth doesn't make anything safer -quite the opposite in fact.

riffmongous

Manic Moran wrote: »

You have to be alive today to worry about the guys out for you tomorrow.

The reality is that although nobody can guarantee ahead of time how they would react, there are enough people in the world who will respond to a home intrusion with force. We have a saying over on this side of the water, that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Around here, one in four burglaries occur with the homeowner present. (Much less than in the U.K., given that intruding upon a US homeowner can realistically be a fatal error). The more important figure, for the homeowner, is that about one in four of those result in the homeowner being subjected to violent crime.

Those are not great odds. Those who resisted with violence were somewhat less likely to be "successful" vicimes, and those who used a firearm were less likely to be injured.

While I understand where you are coming from, one bridge is to be crossed at a time.

Aggravated (armed) burglary is much less likely in Ireland though, about 1% of all burglaries according to the CSO
link

I can't find any statistics for the number of burglaries with the owner present for Ireland though, but for England (2008) it was around 20% with 10% of those people attacked (note that this is not the same as aggravated, at least in Ireland)

link

end of the road

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It's not even you're standard burglar, 90% of which won't try and burgal the place when someone is there. 99% of those will leg it if they hear someone in the place. It's the tiny, tiny minority that stand their ground or that are too stupid to get the feck out. They deserve to get whatever injury they get from a lawful occupier going only as far as they thought reasonable, if only to serve as a deterant to other burglars.

the reality though is it won't serve as a deterrant to other burglars. those determined to burgle will just arm themselves and come in groups instead.

Omackeral

I would never kill anyone unless it was life and death for me and/or my own family.

However, I never feel bad for intruders if I hear of them being killed. They've no earthly business being there so f*ck 'em, in all honesty. I also never feel bad if people in stolen cars are killed. If you didn't steal that car or enter that house then you wouldn't be in that fine mess now would you?

Dublin Pintman

Don't want to be shot dead by an innocent person in his own home? Don't be a housebreaking scumbag. Simple.

Omackeral

pilly wrote: »

And before someone rants about protecting your children how many burglars go near children? I've never heard of one case. You'd swear there was a plague of them.

Here ya go. Gang of these Dublin scumbags terrorised a family in Co Tipp a couple of years back, threatened to cut the children's fingers off.


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/court-hears-of-terrified-screams-of-children-during-burglary-1.2371188

pilly

Omackeral wrote: »

Here ya go. Gang of these scumbags terrorised a family in Co Tipp a couple of years back, threatened to cut the children's fingers off.


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/court-hears-of-terrified-screams-of-children-during-burglary-1.2371188

Okay, fair enough, those scum deserved to be shot. But it is an exception.

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Manic Moran

sbsquarepants wrote: »

That's not how it works out though - it actually ends up that the little scummer breaking into your house is more likely to be armed himself. Just look at the states - every tom, dick and (dirty) harry being armed to the teeth doesn't make anything safer -quite the opposite in fact.

Just over 60% of burglars in the US are unarmed. 12% have a firearm. The rest have knives or other physical combat weapons.

I can't find any statistics for the number of burglaries with the owner present for Ireland though, but for England (2008) it was around 20% with 10% of those people attacked (note that this is not the same as aggravated, at least in Ireland)

link

There may be a miscalculation somewhere. This seems to be based off the same report, but goes into more figures.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245417/Burglary-victims-attacked-home-30-minutes.html

According to the BCS, householders came face-to-face with burglars in 20 per cent of domestic burglaries last year. That translates one every ten minutes. In other cases, either no one was at home or the victim was at home but unaware they were being burgled and did not see the offender.
Of the burglaries in which the victim came face-to-face with the intruder, violence was either used or threatened in 59 per cent of crimes.

By combing the two research reports, the Tories estimated that householders came face-to-face with burglars in 57,000 - 20 per cent - of burglaries.

Of these, 23,000 resulted in the burglar using violence against the householder.

So that's 20% of burglaries that the homeowner actually encountered the burglar. The 'homeowner present' rate thus must be somewhat more.

Page 80 of this report may be instructive, although it's a few years older. http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/Brookings-Burglary-Policing-Ch3-2003.pdf (11 on the PDF). It shows UK homeowners aware in 25% of burglaries, not aware 20%, and concludes the UK hot burglary rate is between 36 and 46%. I would presume the comparative ratio would be similar for 2010. There are a few more caveats, but the bottom line comparison is that hot burglaries are rarer as a percentage in the US than in the UK.

Comparative US figures here from the same years (early/mid 2000s, released 2010)
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

28% of US burglaries had homeowner present (In a survey taken in the 1980s, 74 percent of prisoners agreed that they reason they try to avoid homes where the owner is present is that they don't want to get shot), and in only one of four of those was there use of violence against the victim. So not only is the US homeowner less likely to encounter a burglar in the first place, there is also less likelihood of violence when it happens. Generally speaking, the burglar will run away when he knows he's been detected rather than risk losing a firefight, if he's armed at all.

What the report doesn't seem to say is who wins once violence starts, but one in two victims were injured, and there is this from 2013.

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/IOM-NRC_Priorities-for-Research-to-reduce-the-threat-of-firearm-related-violence_2013.pdf (Page 16)

Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies

Of course, this is all largely academic in Ireland where possession of a firearm purely for defense purposes is not permitted, but it makes good food for thought.

99problems

I'd rape them

Manic Moran

Apropos... on CNN today.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/03/us/homeowner-gun-photo-trnd/index.html

OldMrBrennan83

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99problems

I have two women in my house ,one is my defenceless five year old daughter I would kill anyone that tries to come into my house and I wouldn't do it fast either.

Erik Shin

99problems wrote: »

I have two women in my house ,one is my defenceless five year old daughter I would kill anyone that tries to come into my house and I wouldn't do it fast either.

Rape them to death ?

99problems

Erik Shin wrote:

Rape them to death ?

Yes

pilly

Patww79 wrote:

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So we've the death penalty now for robbery?

99problems

pilly wrote:

So we've the death penalty now for robbery?

If there was any justice we would.

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OldMrBrennan83

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DrWu

What a bizarre thread. Why would anyone want to "get away" with such a thing? If you had no choice but to do it then so be it, but the OP is phrased almost like it would be an opportunity not to be missed!