Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

Options
1…1112141617…44

Comments

  • Options
    #392
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Simon Coveney has now officially joined the N.I.M.B.Y's in saying alternative routes need to be looked at.

    The fact that he lives in Carrigaline is a big factor clearly.

    https://www.c103.ie/news/minister-for-foreign-affairs-makes-his-submission/


  • Options
    #393
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    Simon Coveney has now officially joined the N.I.M.B.Y's in saying alternative routes need to be looked at.

    The fact that he lives in Carrigaline is a big factor clearly.

    https://www.c103.ie/news/minister-for-foreign-affairs-makes-his-submission/

    Three high ranking politicians making themselves look very unfit to lead the country. Two of whom have actively tried to and are placing national infrastructure on the back burner in favour of the Taliban's agenda.

    Other routes were explored and the best one was picked. This is one of the few major schemes in his constituency. He should have been aware of this when it was happening


  • Options
    #394
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    Simon Coveney has now officially joined the N.I.M.B.Y's in saying alternative routes need to be looked at.

    The fact that he lives in Carrigaline is a big factor clearly.

    https://www.c103.ie/news/minister-for-foreign-affairs-makes-his-submission/
    Electioneering perhaps? :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #395
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    marno21 wrote: »
    Three high ranking politicians making themselves look very unfit to lead the country. Two of whom have actively tried to and are placing national infrastructure on the back burner in favour of the Taliban's agenda.

    Other routes were explored and the best one was picked. This is one of the few major schemes in his constituency. He should have been aware of this when it was happening
    Perhaps we now need to look at converting our parliamentary electoral mechanism to a closed party list system - that way, you just vote for FF, FG or whatever, but not individual politicians - each party would have a list of candidates who would be selected in preferential order on the basis of the number of parliamentary seats won.


  • Options
    #396
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    marno21 wrote: »
    Three high ranking politicians making themselves look very unfit to lead the country. Two of whom have actively tried to and are placing national infrastructure on the back burner in favour of the Taliban's agenda.

    Other routes were explored and the best one was picked. This is one of the few major schemes in his constituency. He should have been aware of this when it was happening
    Only for boundary changes Buttimer wouldn't even be involved in the first instance.

    Martin & Coveney both know an election isn't very far away either.

    All Micheal Martin wants is to be Taoiseach and probably feels between his and McGrath's votes combined they might bring in a 3rd candidate with them to push up their numbers.

    The Taliban are noisy but most likely won't get anywhere,all they'll do is slow down the process and bring it to the courts. :mad:
    Middle Man wrote: »
    Electioneering perhaps? :rolleyes:
    I put that to 2 politicians directly involved in this, surprise surprise neither replied to me bit did read the messages.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #397
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    I've changed tactics slightly in my approach to this with regards emissions.

    A tweet has been sent to Oisin Coghlan, Chief Executive with Friends Of the Earth.

    If trucks and other general traffic are more free flowing rather than stop/go i can't see how emissions would go up, the present system produces more pollution if anything.

    https://twitter.com/CorkTruckDriver/status/931940394723573760


  • Options
    #398
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Every engineer would have a different opinion?


    M28 steering group must acknowledge in particular all the hard work done by Cllr Marcia Dalton. She is qualified engineer from UCC and has used her qualification and experience to counter the assertions by transport infrastructure Ireland that the M28 would have little affect on residents . She was meticulous in her presentations and demonstrated clearly that there would be an increase in NOISE and AIR pollution for everyone. She is very concerned about the residents in the greater Douglas area and in Ringskiddy. it was obvious from Marcia's presentations that she spent many days and hours working on her data so that she could ensure the best outcome for her constituents. WE MUST SERIOUSLY CONSIDER MAKING THIS COUNCILLOR A TD. This is not for Marcia's benefit but for OURS. Thank you Cllr Dalton.


  • Options
    #399
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    Every engineer would have a different opinion?


    M28 steering group must acknowledge in particular all the hard work done by Cllr Marcia Dalton. She is qualified engineer from UCC and has used her qualification and experience to counter the assertions by transport infrastructure Ireland that the M28 would have little affect on residents . She was meticulous in her presentations and demonstrated clearly that there would be an increase in NOISE and AIR pollution for everyone. She is very concerned about the residents in the greater Douglas area and in Ringskiddy. it was obvious from Marcia's presentations that she spent many days and hours working on her data so that she could ensure the best outcome for her constituents. WE MUST SERIOUSLY CONSIDER MAKING THIS COUNCILLOR A TD. This is not for Marcia's benefit but for OURS. Thank you Cllr Dalton.
    This really sounds like the old days IMO! The parish pump is alive and well!


  • Options
    #400
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Middle Man wrote: »
    This really sounds like the old days IMO! The parish pump is alive and well!

    As was previously mentioned, alot of these people were around in the 90's when construction was ongoing with Mulcon Valley.

    I don't recall anything on this scale such as a steering group in those days, i was a young lad yes but i do remember it being built and dont't recall opposition then.


  • Options
    #401
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    45 members and representing 10,000*

    *I haven't seen evidence

    https://altroutem28.com/about/


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #402
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    45 members and representing 10,000*

    *I haven't seen evidence

    https://altroutem28.com/about/
    Well, let them start a petition so that we can see their 10,000 strong support... :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #403
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Middle Man wrote: »
    Well, let them start a petition so that we can see their 10,000 strong support... :rolleyes:

    They couldn't get the numbers for a bus to go to the Ambassador hotel, that say it all :pac:


  • Options
    #404
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    Only for boundary changes Buttimer wouldn't even be involved in the first instance.

    Martin & Coveney both know an election isn't very far away either.

    All Micheal Martin wants is to be Taoiseach and probably feels between his and McGrath's votes combined they might bring in a 3rd candidate with them to push up their numbers.

    The Taliban are noisy but most likely won't get anywhere,all they'll do is slow down the process and bring it to the courts. :mad:

    I put that to 2 politicians directly involved in this, surprise surprise neither replied to me bit did read the messages.

    I do think that the three support the M28 but can't be seen to do so in public because such criticial infrastructure for the city is so frowned upon. It's a sad state of affairs when these TDs have to come out in support of a few cranks to hunt for votes when this scheme stands to benefit the whole city and hundreds of thousands of people.
    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    Every engineer would have a different opinion?


    M28 steering group must acknowledge in particular all the hard work done by Cllr Marcia Dalton. She is qualified engineer from UCC and has used her qualification and experience to counter the assertions by transport infrastructure Ireland that the M28 would have little affect on residents . She was meticulous in her presentations and demonstrated clearly that there would be an increase in NOISE and AIR pollution for everyone. She is very concerned about the residents in the greater Douglas area and in Ringskiddy. it was obvious from Marcia's presentations that she spent many days and hours working on her data so that she could ensure the best outcome for her constituents. WE MUST SERIOUSLY CONSIDER MAKING THIS COUNCILLOR A TD. This is not for Marcia's benefit but for OURS. Thank you Cllr Dalton.

    If she's such a good engineer; why isn't she working as an engineer instead of being a councillor?
    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    45 members and representing 10,000*

    *I haven't seen evidence

    https://altroutem28.com/about/
    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    They couldn't get the numbers for a bus to go to the Ambassador hotel, that say it all :pac:

    Instead they drove in their dirty noisy diesel/petrol cars emitting noxious gases around the Mulcon Valley. Not hypocritical at all.


  • Options
    #405
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Divering the debate from the Taliban for a minute, what are people's thoughts on the route through/by Ringaskiddy?

    http://www.n28cork-ringaskiddy.com/Brochure_121214_Final.pdf

    Outline there. I think the original 2008 would be ok too as it provides better connectivity to Loughbeg, and bar Ringaskiddy village there isn't anyone better served with the northern routing. It's a bit close to the Martello Tower so might make Marcia Dalton uncomfortable.


  • Options
    #406
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    A little history on Cllr Marcia Dalton.

    Why would someone give up a job as an engineer to become a full time public representative? :confused:

    http://www.marciadalton.net/about-2/


  • Options
    #407
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    A little history on Cllr Marcia Dalton.

    Why would someone give up a job as an engineer to become a full time public representative? :confused:

    http://www.marciadalton.net/about-2/

    Why wouldn't they?
    Not every engineer wants to be an engineer just as I assume not every truck driver wants to be a truck driver. These personal attacks and name calling (NIMBY and Taliban, etc) really don't help the discussion in any way. How about we use boards to discuss the issues rather than lowering the tone with name calling. There are plenty of valid reasons to disagree with the steering group and Cllr Dalton (as you did earlier) but personal attacks don't help your cause...unless you are The Sun newspaper of course.


  • Options
    #408
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Ludo wrote: »
    Why wouldn't they?
    Not every engineer wants to be an engineer just as I assume not every truck driver wants to be a truck driver. These personal attacks and name calling (NIMBY and Taliban, etc) really don't help the discussion in any way. How about we use boards to discuss the issues rather than lowering the tone with name calling. There are plenty of valid reasons to disagree with the steering group and Cllr Dalton but personal attacks don't help your cause...unless you are The Sun newspaper of course.

    I actually set out to be a Bus driver, that didn't go the way i had hoped it would so i switched to trucks.

    As for the NIMBY,Taliban expressions, it isn't far from accurate, because what they are saying is to this motorway is they don't want it on their patch.

    The Taliban nickname isn't wide of the mark either, as the steering group are proclaiming war on this project.

    Being a Cllr wouldn't pay as well as an engineer.

    In the city, Cllr's are paid €16k the last i heard, this is less than that of an engineer.


    The sun newspaper might catch up with this thread yet, but i'm sure they are distracted with Leo at the moment.


    If it were a TD's salary, now that is a different kettle of fish.

    The reason these Cllr's and TD's are jumping onboard Harrington's vessel is because of it's negativity, that attracts crowds,supporting crowds draws votes,votes lead to Leinster house if there's enough of them.

    When would you see a group of residents "packing out" a hotel for people who are in favour of projects like this?

    In my lifetime i have yet to encounter that.

    So if that doesn't happen then their is no votes to be got from it in that regard at least.

    Politicians (In alot of cases) only serve their self interest and that is election time.

    In 2018 a general election is likely.


  • Options
    #409
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Ludo wrote: »
    Why wouldn't they?
    Not every engineer wants to be an engineer just as I assume not every truck driver wants to be a truck driver. These personal attacks and name calling (NIMBY and Taliban, etc) really don't help the discussion in any way. How about we use boards to discuss the issues rather than lowering the tone with name calling. There are plenty of valid reasons to disagree with the steering group and Cllr Dalton (as you did earlier) but personal attacks don't help your cause...unless you are The Sun newspaper of course.
    Using the phrase "NIMBY" isn't name calling, it's a perfectly apt phrase for people who don't want infrastructure being built simply because its near them. The Steering Group go on about noise and air pollution, but they are happy to shift all this so called pollution to the people of Ballygarvan. That's out and out NIMBYism, simple.

    The M28 Steering Group have gone from being a group to try and get resident's concerns heard to a group trying to stop the construction of the M28 at all costs and are refusing to engage in any form of debate. In my opinion, they are behaving like the Taliban. The amount of abuse I got from a member of the Steering Group as a result of trying to address their concerns further strengthens my beliefs.

    Also, I fail to see where Cork Truck Driver attacked Marcia Dalton. It's a very valid question as to why a qualified, and allegedly (I can't say as I've never seen the woman's work) good engineer sits on the Passage West Town Council. It's just a question we are asking; not attacking.


  • Options
    #410
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    OK then...good to know that name calling is a valid form of discussion here. All negative opinions of the road got banned from the original thread. Funny how that thread died a death once discussion was banned and this one has survived (read the very first post in this thread for a laugh). Does this sound familiar to anyone? Maybe like a certain facebook group who use the same way of doing things.


  • Options
    #411
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    marno21 wrote: »
    Using the phrase "NIMBY" isn't name calling, it's a perfectly apt phrase for people who don't want infrastructure being built simply because its near them. The Steering Group go on about noise and air pollution, but they are happy to shift all this so called pollution to the people of Ballygarvan. That's out and out NIMBYism, simple.

    The M28 Steering Group have gone from being a group to try and get resident's concerns heard to a group trying to stop the construction of the M28 at all costs and are refusing to engage in any form of debate. In my opinion, they are behaving like the Taliban. The amount of abuse I got from a member of the Steering Group as a result of trying to address their concerns further strengthens my beliefs.

    Also, I fail to see where Cork Truck Driver attacked Marcia Dalton. It's a very valid question as to why a qualified, and allegedly (I can't say as I've never seen the woman's work) good engineer sits on the Passage West Town Council. It's just a question we are asking; not attacking.
    ...not to mention the fact that both me and Cork Truck Driver are blocked on the M28 Steering Group's facebook page - so IMO, it is a case of:

    Yes, they are trying to avoid any sort of balanced debate.

    Ok I can be very strong in my views, but I see no reason why Cork Truck Driver should have been blocked.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #412
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    marno21 wrote: »
    In the original M28 thread, for discussion of the scheme's progression, there was a number of posts last Autumn about alternative routing of the motorway and how it would affect Douglas and Ringaskiddy. These posts then filled the thread and it became impossible to discuss the scheme's progression coherently, so I started a new thread, which had to be closed for several reasons.

    I am aware that because the original thread was closed, there is currently nowhere to discuss the M28 alternatives and merits, so this thread is being created, in the interest of balance. However, this thread will continue under certain conditions:

    1. Posters on this thread are expected to be civil and not engage in any abusive behaviour towards other users, mods or any member of the public/organisations involved with the M28.

    2. Any claims made need to be backed up and claims of correspondance etc from various organisations posted without proof will be deleted. I have no problem with an anti-M28 member saying something but posts can't be left up if they could potentially cause trouble for the site.

    3. Any discussion/updates of the actual M28 scheme in progress are to be posted on the M28 thread. This thread is only for discussion of alternative routes and whether the scheme will go ahead at all. If there is a scheme update it belongs in the other thread.

    I will happily allow this discussion to take place but if the thread goes out of control like the last one, this thread will also be locked. I am trying to suit both sides as much as possible here but posters also need to play ball.

    marno21
    Middle Man wrote: »
    ...not to mention the fact that both me and Cork Truck Driver are blocked on the M28 Steering Group's facebook page - so IMO, it is a case of:

    Yes, they are trying to avoid any sort of balanced debate.

    Ok I can be very strong in my views, but I see no reason why Cork Truck Driver should have been blocked.

    I have tried to directly contact Harrington for comment.

    I am awaiting an answer or to be blocked at this moment in time.

    Maybe i am cuckoo but we'll see where it gets me.

    And yes i can confirm that myself and Middle Man have been blocked from posting on the page even though it was constructive and balanced.


  • Options
    #413
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    The steering group posted the following comment in reply to a negative review overnight:




    M28 Steering Group Hi Julie, sorry to see A negative review, which is disappointing considering what the group represents. A few points to make in the groups defence. One-everyone knows and accepts the n28 has exceeded capacity- this is a separate issue. Two- air and noise pollution have detrimental effects on people's health-FACT. Three-diesel fuel is worse than petrol in this regard-FACT. Four- this makes NIMBY-ism ok if it is your own back yard, for the reasons above, not to mention the photomontage of the house in newlyn vale.

    Have you got children? If you do, would you be happy to have 4000 diesel trucks a day running within a few metres of your home while they play in the garden, KNOWING that diesel emissions cause lung cancer? (And are even more harmful to children than adults). Call it NIMBYism or whatever you like, but this is a valid human health issue that shouldn't be ignored for the sake of a road, and 10,000 others, not to mention most of the local TDs, would agree.


  • Options
    #414
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    The steering group posted the following comment in reply to a negative review overnight:




    M28 Steering Group Hi Julie, sorry to see A negative review, which is disappointing considering what the group represents. A few points to make in the groups defence. One-everyone knows and accepts the n28 has exceeded capacity- this is a separate issue. Two- air and noise pollution have detrimental effects on people's health-FACT. Three-diesel fuel is worse than petrol in this regard-FACT. Four- this makes NIMBY-ism ok if it is your own back yard, for the reasons above, not to mention the photomontage of the house in newlyn vale.

    Have you got children? If you do, would you be happy to have 4000 diesel trucks a day running within a few metres of your home while they play in the garden, KNOWING that diesel emissions cause lung cancer? (And are even more harmful to children than adults). Call it NIMBYism or whatever you like, but this is a valid human health issue that shouldn't be ignored for the sake of a road, and 10,000 others, not to mention most of the local TDs, would agree.

    That is obscene.

    Ludo, any comments?


  • Options
    #415
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,995 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    marno21 wrote: »
    That is obscene.

    Ludo, any comments?

    Only to an extent. They’re right about the noise and air effects but not the nimby bit - they are admitting that their position is that they are indeed nimbys and that that is OK.

    If it was me I would consider purchasing and demolishing any houses that will be too close but that could be construed as a war on the neighbourhood.


  • Options
    #416
    Golfer50
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    marno21 wrote: »
    That is obscene.

    It is indeed obscene that people would think it ok to drive such an important and busy piece of infrastructure within metres of dense housing. Which part of the health points are obscene exactly?


  • Options
    #417
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Only to an extent. They’re right about the noise and air effects but not the nimby bit - they are admitting that their position is that they are indeed nimbys and that that is OK.

    If it was me I would consider purchasing and demolishing any houses that will be too close but that could be construed as a war on the neighbourhood.

    Noise effects will be got everywhere.

    As for the air effects, how many of them drive petrol and diesel power vehicles? A good 99.9% at least.

    Calling them NIMBY's is now a term they are basically saying they are ok with due to their admission.

    "We don't want this road but it's ok by us if Ballygarvan get it" is their stance.

    There wasn't this much opposition when the Blackpool bypass was being built in the late 90's,look at the amount of traffic going through that area,trucks,buses,petrol,diesel,stopping,starting, they have it all there and that road is literally in the back gardens of people's houses.

    Blackpool is having more air and noise problems than the M28 will ever have.

    Will the steering group be of the opinion that because that area is on the northside they don't matter?


  • Options
    #418
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Only to an extent. They’re right about the noise and air effects but not the nimby bit - they are admitting that their position is that they are indeed nimbys and that that is OK.

    If it was me I would consider purchasing and demolishing any houses that will be too close but that could be construed as a war on the neighbourhood.

    The part of the road that is going near housing is already a road, and has seen reduced emissions in recent years with the introduction of improved emission systems in car, the NCT etc. This is only continuing to improve with time, especially with electric cars and hybrids coming down the line. There will be a big push in this field in coming years due to Ireland's failure to meet climate action targets.

    Regardless of whether the M28 is built or not, there will still be 28k vehicles a day on the N28. If any member of the steering group drives a car then they are voiding their argument because they are causing as much pollution as everyone else. This isn't a problem isolated to them and the M28 won't be causing widespread lung cancer, no more than any other road would. Diesel cars being driven in low gear or idling in estates would be far worse for them than the M28 with most vehicles in cruise down Carrs Hill. I don't see them trying to ban cars from their estates to counteract this issue.

    The other thing being the existence of a direct entrance from a high speed road to a housing estate being fine - this has as many of the problems as the M28 does.

    It has turned into Harrington and the Taliban using this kind of tactic to stop the road at all costs - nothing else. He's very worried about "lung cancer" but it's fine for the Ballygarvan people to get it.


  • Options
    #419
    Golfer50
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    The Blackpool situation is horrific. Are you trying to make this a north side/south side debate now? Ridiculous.


  • Options
    #420
    Golfer50
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    Agree, there may be mote electric and lower polluting vehicles in the future but right now the existing N28 is already far beyond all reasonable levels of noise and pollutants. That's a reason to do something about the N28, not add all the Port traffic to it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #421
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Golfer50 wrote: »
    The Blackpool situation is horrific. Are you trying to make this a north side/south side debate now? Ridiculous.

    I’m comparing the 2, nothing more.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement