The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

Candamir

keano_afc wrote: »

The IMT have deleted the poll. They won't even stand over it themselves. It seems it's only accepted by the good people on boards.ie. Thank goodness for anonymous internet chat forums.

Really? It’s still on their FB Page. More ‘fake news’ keano!

expectationlost

Candamir wrote: »

Really? It’s still on their FB Page. More ‘fake news’ keano!

https://www.imt.ie/news/majority-medics-back-abortion-12-weeks-imt-poll-reveals-07-02-2018/ cache https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:04CNC6vUzr8J:https://www.imt.ie/news/majority-medics-back-abortion-12-weeks-imt-poll-reveals-07-02-2018/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

pleas advice

93 votes on Twitter

https://twitter.com/IMT_latest/status/956898931639808001


245 votes on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/IrishMedicalTimes/posts/1535939343128217


thats 338 out of 388 responses,

Irish Medical Times wrote:

With 388 votes cast, 285 responses (73%) said ‘Yes’ they would support the introduction of abortion on request up to 12 weeks into a pregnancy; 96 (25%) said ‘No’ they would not support the introduction while 7 (2%) did not know.

Responses from readers were made by going to the Irish Medical Times Twitter @IMT_latest, Facebook www.facebook.com/IrishMedical Times/or our website at www.imt.ie.

frag420

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/01/permission-given-to-create-britains-first-three-person-babies

Doctors in Newcastle have been granted permission to create Britain’s first “three-person babies” for two women who are at risk of passing on devastating and incurable genetic diseases to their children.

A questions for the pro life side, would you be in support of a three parent child developed in a lab as per the article above if it meant a reduction in abortions as there would be a reduction in the risk of passing on devastating and incurable genetic diseases to children which is a reason that many cite for procuring an abortion?

ohnonotgmail

Why are the pro-life crowd so terrified by a poll?

Edward M

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Why are the pro-life crowd so terrified by a poll?

Propaganda, its the same both ways.
The pro choice are horrified at posters.

Nettle Soup

erica74 wrote: »

I can't remember if I've contributed to this thread already, I think I may have at different stages.
The conversation about the 8th is everywhere, it's hard to escape it, whether you want to or not.

Throughout my life, I have often thought of how the 8th could have impacted me. My brother sexually abused me for years when I was a child. I often think about if I had ended up pregnant as a result of the abuse. The resulting baby would have been a baby born from incest with who knows what sort of severe health problems and I would have been a seriously damaged person as a result, I am damaged enough as is.

When I think of the 8th, I think of other young girls, young women and women in general who are being abused, by a partner or a family member and the impact the 8th (as it is) may have on them.

I fully support abortion, abortions for every woman who wants one, no matter what the reason. My experience is just one of a thousand reasons why a woman might seek an abortion.
I think back to being 10 years old and not understanding a fucking thing about my life and I am scared for myself. It's a terrifying thought. What if.

I doubt any Pro-8th people will respond to this post. They simply do not want to know about these scenarios.

Thank you for being so open.

_Dara_

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

The thing is, it's their own cause their hurting in the long run by deluding themselves about the strength of their position. There seems to be a narrative emerging among the pro-lifers that even if the referendum and the 12-week legislation pass, the proposed abortion regime will never come into effect because there won't be enough GPs to make it work. Nitpicking about the details of this survey's methodology will help to sustain that narrative, but if it turns out to be a false hope...

This is true. I’m wary of declarations about the strength of one’s own position, no matter the side. The polls will decide. Do your campaigning, try to convince people but don’t be cocky about the outcome because you don’t know what it will be.

NuMarvel

captbarnacles wrote: »

Do Iona oppose the right to travel?

Can't be certain, but I've never heard them speak out about it, or about anyone who travels.

The Pro Life Campaign group campaigned for a No vote in the referendum on the 13th Amendment, but you don't hear anything it from them now.

Zubeneschamali

NuMarvel wrote: »

The Pro Life Campaign group campaigned for a No vote in the referendum on the 13th Amendment, but you don't hear anything it from them now.

600,000 people voted against the right to travel back then, but I have never heard anyone ever say that they were one of them.

Very shy crew.

seamus

expectationlost wrote: »

its their website (reg needed) poll, a facebook poll and a twitter poll all added together obviously not stringent enough to report on by anyone else, no matter what you view theres no justifying putting this poll on the front page of a newspaper at all

Sure, but I see nothing anywhere to suggest that the IMT lied about the poll or the results.

The questions asks, "Would you, as a medical practitioner..."

Methodology aside, the IMT simply presented the results as-is, it doesn't make any claims that those who answered are all definitely medical practitioners.

Considering there were only 300-odd responses, it would be wrong to assume the poll was brigaded by pro-choice laypeople, but either way, as you say, it's not really front page news.

Did anyone put it on the front page, or was it just a few online outlets?

applehunter

It was on the front page of yesterday's Examiner.

Loafing Oaf

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Why are the pro-life crowd so terrified by a poll?

In this instance, because one of the straws they are clutching at if the referendum passes is that there won't be enough GPs willing to cooperate with the proposed abortion plans to make them workable. Now, I'm sure that reasonably well informed pro-life know with the rational part of their brains that this is nonsense, but when you're fighting for a lost cause you cling to these delusions...

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Edward M

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I doubt any Pro-8th people will respond to this post. They simply do not want to know about these scenarios.

Thank you for being so open.

I wouldn't be absolutely in favour of abortion in all cases up to twelve weeks or any time limit.
I would class my self as pro life.
I'm voting against the eighth though, precisely because of cases such as erica 74 has described.
Its unfair to portray all pro life campaigners as being unsympathetic gargoyles or mysogonistic bastards.
There is a middle ground and there is a danger of name calling and calling out of specific points of view upsetting voters like myself and driving them back over the retain line.
A bit of respect goes a long way sometimes.

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Edward M

....... wrote: »

This is a bit of an odd statement to make?

Are you trying to imply that if someone is disrespectful towards you because of how you (and they) feel re the 8th Amendment that you would vote differently to "punish" the pro choice side or something?

Because - people need to vote according to what they believe to be right, not on whether or not they dont like other people.

I wasn't referring to myself, no.
I was thinking of those that might be on the fence.
I was wondering actually also, how would I be classed in this voting scenario?

Captain Obvious

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

600,000 people voted against the right to travel back then, but I have never heard anyone ever say that they were one of them.

Very shy crew.

Does it come up often in conversation. I don't know how a single person voted in that referendum.

NuMarvel

Edward M wrote: »

I wouldn't be absolutely in favour of abortion in all cases up to twelve weeks or any time limit.
I would class my self as pro life.
I'm voting against the eighth though, precisely because of cases such as erica 74 has described.
Its unfair to portray all pro life campaigners as being unsympathetic gargoyles or mysogonistic bastards.
There is a middle ground and there is a danger of name calling and calling out of specific points of view upsetting voters like myself and driving them back over the retain line.
A bit of respect goes a long way sometimes.

In fairness to Nettle, they didn't specify pro-life people, but pro-8th. And as you've shown, there is a difference between the two. Pro life people can be opposed to abortion, and still want the 8th gone.

I have no doubt pro life people will find it difficult to vote for change, but I think many will vote Yes because they know that, on balance, the status quo is worse.

Edward M

I did read nettles post wrongly.

expectationlost

seamus wrote: »

Sure, but I see nothing anywhere to suggest that the IMT lied about the poll or the results.

The questions asks, "Would you, as a medical practitioner..."

Methodology aside, the IMT simply presented the results as-is, it doesn't make any claims that those who answered are all definitely medical practitioners.

Considering there were only 300-odd responses, it would be wrong to assume the poll was brigaded by pro-choice laypeople, but either way, as you say, it's not really front page news.

Did anyone put it on the front page, or was it just a few online outlets?

yes this is the problem it was on the front page of the Irish Examiner paper. it was covered by the Irish TImes thejournal and the Indo online.

Im not savethe8th, Im not bothered by the poll itself but Im appalled that Irish Examiner put it on the front page, its such a mistake of judgment and will harm them as a source of news for years to come.

see the IE frontpage that day http://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/02/07/de-thursday-papers-251/

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NuMarvel

Edward M wrote: »

I did read nettles post wrongly.

You raised a good point nonetheless; that those who will or are likely to vote Yes in the referendum are a diverse group. Not everyone is going to agree on what should happen after Repeal & Enable (or whatever ends up on the ballot paper), but if we all agree that Repeal & Enable is better than the status quo, then I think it's worthwhile recognising and acknowledging that.

Frank Bullitt

captbarnacles wrote: »

Do Iona oppose the right to travel?

Iona generally campaign against what most, decent human beings want.

So there is a high probability that they do.

pilly

....... wrote: »

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I think Edward makes excellent points and has made excellent contributions to this thread.

The fact that you don't understand why people would be on the fence doesn't mean that there's not a lot of them out there. I personally know many people who can't decide what to do and I empathise with them.

And the extremes on either side are going to convince people one way or the other, whether we like that fact or not.

I know pro-life people who grit their teeth every time Iona is mentioned because they know that those sort of people do no good for the pro-life side.

Also, there are some on the pro-choice side that make me cringe too. We all know the type. "Abortion with no time limit" bull****. People can not buy into that and it will turn them off completely.

Zubeneschamali

expectationlost wrote: »

its such a mistake of judgment and will harm them as a source of news for years to come.

It will be forgotten by next week.

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pilly

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Apologies if I picked you up wrong, I felt your reply to Edward was a little hostile that's all.

I do understand why people are on the fence about repealing the 8th though, if they're anti-abortion or even anti abortion after a certain gestation period then they have qualms.

Water John

It's in the interest of some anti abortion people and groups to conflagrate, repealing the 8th with allowing easy abortion. They believe the best way of preventing abortion, esp in this country, is by defeating the Referendum.
They are all aware of the faults in the 8th, but for them its worth saving, to prevent the Oireachtas from legislating. You will note, some posters here don't want the Oireachtas to have this power. This was the original purpose of the 8th.
When I was differentiating the two issues early in the thread, I was attacked.

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