How do people survive on wages close to minimum wage?

mrsmags16

I have a cousin who is on state benefits with his wife (he was working but lost his unskilled job unfortunately) they live down the country with 2 kids, rent a house for next to nothing, happy as Larry but with no holidays or savings or treats really. He mentioned once they spend 40 quid a week on the grocery shop. I live in a city with my husband, we both earn fairly good money, have a mortgage on a house in the city centre, pension funds, savings, 2 nice holidays a year, kid number 1 en route and will be tough to manage to pay for creche when I go back to work - their kids have the luxury of their parents bringing them up - ours won't. With our outgoings we definitely couldn't afford more than 2 kids. So yeah, I found myself thinking the same thing as OP about my cousin recently but you know what? They are super happy, kids well looked after, I think while they would love a bit of a treat like a sun holiday sometime the more important things to them are health and happiness. We think the same. So there is no need for pity or envy really on either side.

As an aside - my brother is an app developer (or something) and started on 60k. Dunno anything about projected income but two firms offered him that.

Sam Kade

happywithlife wrote: »

My husband hated school and ended up working in the job he started in at 14 years of age
Rock on 20 years he's still there and yet to hit ?10 an hour. It's absolute crap. But he is so slow to change. He pulls in a decent enough wage when busy as he also gets some piecemeal pay on top of his Base wage. But it's very long hours. It was okay when it was just the two of us but realistically now with 3 kids he just about breaks even after paying for childcare but he'd rather be working which is fine. It's heartbreaking that his wage is so low though and he has been talking lots recently of leaving but with no qualifications he's loath to leave and I think he'd rather the devil he knows than the unknown

Your username doesn't match your post What does he do? My guess is working with a farmer or farm contractor.

cantdecide

I never made an effort in school and never studied. In hindsight, I should have taken a trade. I always worked hard and always mastered and progressed in every job I had. I used to work in a purchasing offices and various supply chain jobs in construction supply businesses and warehousing. When construction went for a crap, all my experience and product knowledge counted for nothing. I left Ireland and had an accident that had me back home unexpectedly and recovering for almost a year.

I work for E19,500 in a contact centre doing the job of a civil serveant. What I do is very complex and involves having huge knowledge regarding current legislation and familiarity with vast amounts of historical practices. I mastered the job but the industry and the particular company are notorious. Yay outsourcing.

I'm a single guy in my thirties. I'm a few weeks away from taking my 3rd year exams in a 4yr part-time degree in supply chain. I hope to earn enough money in the future to live independently because once I take home my pitiful wages and save for my course fees, I have enough money to hand up to my parents (yes, I live at home), cover my bills and pay for my car (which mainly exists to get me to work as there's no viable public transport).

If I gave up all ambition and stayed at home watching telly and not studying, I would be E50/ week worse off than I am while working and studying (and having no life).

Minimum wage is misery- a poverty trap. No one can live independently on it. There are people who work with me who are using the wage to supplement a pension. More of them have a partner with a better job. Many of the single ones are living at home with a lone parent. More again are foreign who are marginally better off than being at home but I know will struggle to build a life here.

Zascar

mrsmags16 wrote: »

I have a cousin who is on state benefits with his wife, they live down the country

This makes all the difference. You can rent a decent house for a few hundred quid in certain parts of the country. Come to Dublin and in some areas you can barely get a one bed for less than €1200.

Yourself isit

skankkuvhima wrote: »

I wasn't going to jump in but I feel I have to. Certification means nothing, absolutely nothing. The only thing that counts in software development is experience.

Person A) Experience in technology X
Person Cert in technology X

Person A gets hired everytime.

I see certification trotted out on other forums too. That and for some bizarre reason having a github account and a load of side projects. Nonsense!

The guthub stuff does matter in certain circumstances.

PMBC

snowflaker wrote: »

I graduated 10 years ago

I am not on €800 a week

That seems more like it. Highly experienced technical grads would expect 80k after 20 or 30 years in Ireland.

Zascar

I think what OP means is that the vesy best developers can make 80k in 5 years. I can happen - it's just the vast minority.

georgiecasey

georgiecasey wrote: »

i hate this attitude. college isn't for everyone and you're not guaranteed a good job afterwards at all these days. everyone has a degree now.

All the education and letters after your name are worthless if you are not willing to work. Those working in Supermarkets are showing prospective employers that they have the work ethic. That is priceless.

Jack the Stripper

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Nice gig if you can get it. Free cars free clothes free trips. Trade your soul

It would beat prostitution.

skankkuvhima

Just for any nosy people. I graduated 10 years ago.

Graduation : €28k + bonuses + health care for family.
5 Years : €45k + health care for me
10 years : €68k + bonuses + health care for family

So after 10 years ~€70k is pretty achievable. I imagine I'd be earning more in Dublin

Django99

People seem to forget that the majority of people do not live in Dublin or Cork. Rent can be as low as 50 per week if sharing a flat in a mid sized town in Ireland.

Food expenses from person to person range hugely, but you could have a balanced diet for about 40 per week. Necessary bills like heat and electricity in a flatshare might be 15 per week per person. Things like phone bills, TV bills and such can be avoided or minimal by getting cheap one off packages e.g. Android box for TV.

You might not need a car but even if you do, it could be ran on maybe 70 per week including all costs if it's a cheap car with little maintenance costs.

Fixed expenses can definitely be kept to around 200 a week, leaving 150 disposable for anyone on minimum wage. 50 in savings and then maybe 100 on a night out and a couple of takeaways at the weekend. Saving 50 a week is 2600 per year which can be used for the likes of Christmas, a cheap package holiday, or a down payment on a new car or whatever.

People who are on low wages can be quite frugal as well, using coupons or special offers or whatever to make every euro go further. They might supplement their income too, whether it be through tips in the service industry, commissions or bonuses in sales, nixers in trade or manual labour jobs.

The people working on these wages also contain a few categories. Students who are also funded by parents or student loans and grants. People returning to work who have maybe taken a few years out to raise children who may have a partner on a high income. And in a lot of these positions it's easy enough to get promoted to assistant manager or manager or a higher paid position quite quickly. In some retail jobs the wages increase every couple of years regardless.

witchgirl26

OP I'm 7 years qualified in a professional capacity (10 since my degree) and I'm not on €80k yet and won't be for a while. Granted different field but I know people in the field you're aiming for and they're not there yet either and a bit off it. You'd have to be a complete whizzkid. There were figures like that bandied about for my profession when I was graduating but I don't recall anyone really getting them within the magical 5 years.

As for surviving on minimum wage or close to. Myself and my partner have really good salaries that we're grateful for but and we have holidays etc. I've friends and relations on a hell of lot less and close to the min wage and they seem just as happy as us. No they don't have as much stuff in their lives but stuff is just that. It doesn't measure happiness. Also a lot of them are a hell of a lot better at saving. You learn to live within your means when you earn less and to figure out what is actually important rather than what seems to be important.

Elessar

skankkuvhima wrote: »

I wasn't going to jump in but I feel I have to. Certification means nothing, absolutely nothing. The only thing that counts in software development is experience.

Person A) Experience in technology X
Person Cert in technology X

Person A gets hired everytime.

I see certification trotted out on other forums too. That and for some bizarre reason having a github account and a load of side projects. Nonsense!

Absolutely +1 couldn't agree more. It's all about experience. Though I would say having projects on Github and the like would help when you're starting out.

Also regarding the €80k+ salary in 'IT' after a few years, it's not impossible. Especially if you have experience in niche or in-demand tech.

I know quite a few people who make that and more as developers. Some of them are contractors - one guy is 32 and 4 years after he finished his college degree he was contracting on €550/day (thats €130k/year). That was a few years ago - he's on more now (albeit abroad).

Another guy same tech stack was contracting with us on ~€80k equivalent. Was offered the same to go permanent, he declined (again a young guy, early 30s).

Another friend who is a DBA with 5 years experience landed here with his fiancé a few years ago from eastern europe. First job he was on €65k - 18 months later he moved to a new job on €80k. He has just been head hunted into a senior DBA role with a financial firm on > €100k and all the benefits. He's 34.

So, it's doable. You just need to be good, and have the experience. Problem is, most Irish firms just don't want to pay > €65k for any non-managerial IT role.

ILikeBoats

In my opinion, climbing the ranks to get a salary of 80k after 5 years doesn't necessarily all rely on how good you are at programming/development. You could be the best in the world but it doesn't mean people will like you. You'd need to show certain social and, maybe, leadership skills, People would need to get on with you, you'd need to fit well with the leadership team etc.

I know in some cases and for some companies, it wouldn't matter, they just want outputs, but for every company I've worked for - it goes a long way.
People are identified as high potential/high performance within weeks of starting with a company and they seen as preferred candidates for promotions and projects, they generally get on well with everyone, are well liked and they are the folks on the big bucks.

In response to OP, I have also wondered how people get by on minimum wage but I suspect there are governmental helping hands in many cases.

peteeeed

is this a humblebrag thread?

Django99

A lot of the discussion has turned to what people in IT earn, and because this is generally a high paying job it raises interesting points I think.

For those earning big, say more than 50k a year, they will generally live in a city centre with high rent or a high mortgage. This is the cost of accommodation, which is far less for most people in this country. It's not comparable for someone earning 50k per year, living in the most expensive part of the country, to someone earning minimum wage living in the least expensive parts.

The same can be applied to cars. Someone on a high salary will probably spend a good chunk of it on their car, whether it be buying brand new cars every couple of years or maybe having high spec cars. Either way, this is a huge expense people on minimum wage don't have.

People on high salarys save more money too. They have better security for sure, but security doesn't mean much to a minimum wage worker. If they lose their job and have to go on the dole it's not a huge step down in income. But going from 50k year to the dole would be extremely difficult, hence the need for a larger amount of savings.

So for someone on a high salary it's difficult to imagine only earning minimum wage, but if you cut back unnecessary expenses a person in Ireland does not need that much more than minimum wage to live a happy, healthy life.

Zascar

From: https://www.brightwater.ie/docs/default-source/surveys/salary-survey/2016/brightwater-salary-survey-2017.pdf?sfvrsn=2

givyjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

All the education and letters after your name are worthless if you are not willing to work. Those working in Supermarkets are showing prospective employers that they have the work ethic. That is priceless.

Actually, its worth about 9.25 an hour or thereabouts.. priceless is a stretch.

myshirt

I studied Law.

I understood that 80% of the job would be batting off the women and driving nice cars. Is this not correct?

Sofiztikated

I'd nearly bet the house that Hollister11 is funded by the Bank of Mum and Dad, and has never had to work.

There's 2 people in this house, myself and my wife, and our largest combined wage has been 37/38k.

With that, we have:
Gotten married, with 130 guests.
Had a car each. Currently 1, as 2 aren't needed.
Bought a house, currently 6 years into a 30 year mortgage.
Recently back from a 3 month trip around Europe.
No massive debt, mortgage not included.

My college experience consists of a Certificate. My wife has a degree in one field, and a diploma in another, and until recently, I was the higher earner of the 2 of us.

It's not always easy, but we've done it. A touch of hard work might go towards knocking the nose of yours out of the sky, and your head out of your arse.

(And take ownership of your mistakes, grammar and spelling, your phone has a full keyboard, just like everyone else using their phone. Don't blame laziness and oversight on the tools, you're the one pushing the buttons. And you might want to make sure you are pushing the right buttons, or you're going to spend even more hours debugging code.)

TerrorFirmer

I honestly don't know how people in Dublin do it, but in other areas it's really not remotely as challenging. Not saying you'd raise a family and support a mortgage on it, but you'd get by far more comfortably in general anywhere other than Dublin, especially if single.

juneg

Are all these computer science/ software jobs in Dublin? I'm asking because of the cost of living in Dublin.

Django99

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'd nearly bet the house that Hollister11 is funded by the Bank of Mum and Dad, and has never had to work.

There's 2 people in this house, myself and my wife, and our largest combined wage has been 37/38k.

With that, we have:
Gotten married, with 130 guests.
Had a car each. Currently 1, as 2 aren't needed.
Bought a house, currently 6 years into a 30 year mortgage.
Recently back from a 3 month trip around Europe.
No massive debt, mortgage not included.

My college experience consists of a Certificate. My wife has a degree in one field, and a diploma in another, and until recently, I was the higher earner of the 2 of us.

It's not always easy, but we've done it. A touch of hard work might go towards knocking the nose of yours out of the sky, and your head out of your arse.

(And take ownership of your mistakes, grammar and spelling, your phone has a full keyboard, just like everyone else using their phone. Don't blame laziness and oversight on the tools, you're the one pushing the buttons. And you might want to make sure you are pushing the right buttons, or you're going to spend even more hours debugging code.)

The poster has said they work Saturdays but are primarily funded by his parents. Nothing at all wrong with that, as long as he completes his degree and becomes financially independent with his first full time job.

In the past, the age society expected people to become financially independent was 18. Going back further, it was 16. In worse times again, it was 12.

It's now changed to 22. This is because with longer lives, we allow people a longer time to develop. This is a good thing, although some people like to use it as a stick to beat young people with. Back in my day and all that.

As you say, education is not everything and money is not everything either. As long as people live within their means they will generally be happy. If they're not, the solution is to increase their means.

Graces7

Fascinating thread... As a pensioner who was previously on disability many years, I have always lived within a small budget, but never lacked for anything I needed. It is as many say here, a matter of living within your budget. And not envying what others have. And yes, food is cheap with the various price wars that go on.

Sheeps

If you get the right companies, and switch after a year or two then I can see how it's possible to by on an 80k salary in 5 years after graduation. Depends on the person too obviously.

Stars and Stripes

Hollister11 wrote: »

Plenty of people I went to school with are working full time in supermarkets. Most would be on circa €10 per hour.

How do people live on roughly 400 quid a week. Now they all live at home with the folks but what are they going to do in the future when they need a mortgage? How are they going to afford it?

I'm in college atm, and earn €50 a week, just to get by, but I'm sacrificing money now to have a good paying job for life.

Would these people not go to college and at least doubt what there on now a few years after graduating?

EDIT: Thread Title should be - How do people survive on wages close to minimum wage?

In a few years time you'll be the one on 400 quid a week working in a supermarket or maybe an illegal in an Irish bar in the US working 60 hours a week for less than the minimum wage.

Django99

Stars and Stripes wrote: »

In a few years time you'll be the one on 400 quid a week working in a supermarket or maybe an illegal in an Irish bar in the US working 60 hours a week for less than the minimum wage.

Why would you say that? He is studying for a degree in a fairly lucrative sector.

Also, a lot of Irish bar staff in the US may earn minimum wage or less, but can earn fantastic money in tips depending on the bar.

Most people who work in supermarkets for longer than a couple of years will get promoted to a management position and earn more than 400 a week.

Sam Kade

Zascar wrote: »

From: https://www.brightwater.ie/docs/default-source/surveys/salary-survey/2016/brightwater-salary-survey-2017.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Looks like the op will be at the top of the ladder in 5 years
I wonder does the op know what the take home pay of 80k would be? Just over 53k https://www.virtualaccountant.ie/Tools/tax2017.jsp?srt=20.00&trt=40.00&prsi=4.00&lusc=0.50&musc=2.50&husc=5.00&susc=8.00&xusc=11.00&eusct=13000.00&musct=12012.00&husct=18772.00&susct=70044.00&xusct=100000.00&srcDropDown=42800.00&src=42800.00&gross=80000.00&newgrossmonth=0&newgross=0.00&bik=0.00&ss=0.00&pensionpc=0.00&credits=3300.00

Glenster

Zascar wrote: »

From: https://www.brightwater.ie/docs/default-source/surveys/salary-survey/2016/brightwater-salary-survey-2017.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I've been an accountant at a telecom/ISP in Dublin and those figures are far too high for that work environment.

Their max for Python and Scala just about hit the lower end.

Out of the 30-40 people in the IT department 2 were on over 90K, one had a background in IT but also was an ACA, and the other was head of the department.

That said, it was a conspicuously scabby place to work.

alig123aileen

Sam Kade wrote: »

Looks like the op will be at the top of the ladder in 5 years
I wonder does the op know what the take home pay of 80k would be? Just over 53k https://www.virtualaccountant.ie/Tools/tax2017.jsp?srt=20.00&trt=40.00&prsi=4.00&lusc=0.50&musc=2.50&husc=5.00&susc=8.00&xusc=11.00&eusct=13000.00&musct=12012.00&husct=18772.00&susct=70044.00&xusct=100000.00&srcDropDown=42800.00&src=42800.00&gross=80000.00&newgrossmonth=0&newgross=0.00&bik=0.00&ss=0.00&pensionpc=0.00&credits=3300.00

Fair point. If you are on €70000 a year working all hours and paying it all in USC and higher rate of tax, worth reviewing getting a job paying about 30-40k no stress and youwill se how your tx and USC plummet, esp if Married with two incomes. its well worth it to work up to you tax free allowance only. Government should address this especially for single people on high incomes as their tax credits are so little. you work to live not live to work