Irish Rail- Annual Ticket Confiscated

weldoninhio

Is your ticket even valid if you don't tag on in the morning??

punisher5112

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is your ticket even valid if you don't tag on in the morning??

In the case of it been a yearly one they would be OK but technically its not valid for travel if it isn't tagged on.

They allow for honest mistake or machine faults but as you would be aware it would be a different story for cash leap transactions.

Hilly Bill

They may have already viewed cctv in Newbridge hence the fine. Maybe this should be over in Legal Discussion where the op may get a better solution instead of the assumptions and accusations that usually happens here :-).
If it was me and i over travelled just the once then I'd pay the original fine and let them take me to court for the additional fine where they will have to provide evidence to back up their claim.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

Why? IE have accused her off an offence they have no evidence actually occurred. The notion of having to prove your innocence is nonsense.

At best, all IE can offer is that she *might* have been doing what they have accused her of. Which is an insultingly facile basis on which to levy a fine so large.

And they have no evidence they didn't cheat - never tagged on. That's a red flag

noodler

I've an annual ticket for short hop and never tag on or off unless it is required to open a barrier.

TheChizler

TallGlass wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks it a bit fookin cheeky of them to fine you and then ask you to pay the fare of 16€ ?

There was a thread here recently where someone got the standard fare plus missed fare, IR backed down when it was pointed out that the standard fare should cover the journey. They seemingly just hope you pay it without questioning it.

AnnieM240

Deleted User wrote: »

magicbastarder wrote: »

Why? IE have accused her off an offence they have no evidence actually occurred. The notion of having to prove your innocence is nonsense.

At best, all IE can offer is that she *might* have been doing what they have accused her of. Which is an insultingly facile basis on which to levy a fine so large.

And they have no evidence they didn't cheat - never

Well our tickets have been checked on board numerous times so it was never flagged to this then that we hadn't tagged on. As I have previously stated there is no barrier and the side that does have one is always open so no one ever tags on. Happy to pay the €116 fine. But €1600 on a annual ticket valued at €1800 is a bit much.

noodler

noodler wrote: »

I've an annual ticket for short hop and never tag on or off unless it is required to open a barrier.

Is it part of the ticket terms that you use the tag?

punisher5112

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is it part of the ticket terms that you use the tag?

Yes everyone must validate.

Same on all transport that takes leap and new social ft passes.

oppenheimer1

I've said it before and I'll say it again, be as obstinate and as uncooperative as possible with these lads if you come across them, and never ever give them your leap/pass if it doesn't have a valid ticket - ever!

beauf

Your think you could check this with the station CCTV considering the fraud that had been caught using this in the UK. Your be mad not to have it here.

It would protect non fraud where it's a mistake.

road_high

Wonder had the OP been a pair of junkies or drinks ala Luas Red Line would the treatment meated out have been so severe?

punisher5112

road_high wrote: »

Wonder had the OP been a pair of junkies or drinks ala Luas Red Line would the treatment meated out have been so severe?

Luas is different they seem to let off.

Rail is a different story its not tolerated.

noodler

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it part of the ticket terms that you use the tag?

Possibly, I don't use it as some kind of defence.

Just that it makes no cost difference to me.

If I was ever scanned by an inspector and he told me it wasn't tagged on (even though its a perfectly valid ticket) theres no way I'd be personally accepting a fine for such a lack of common sense.

I suppose I just said it more to say that it goes on out of convenience.

thomasj

TheChizler wrote: »

There was a thread here recently where someone got the standard fare plus missed fare, IR backed down when it was pointed out that the standard fare should cover the journey. They seemingly just hope you pay it without questioning it.

http://www.irishrail.ie/contact-us/faqs?i=4272

If you don’t have a valid ticket on board the Train you will have to pay a fixed penalty payment of €100 plus the unpaid fare.

Victor

road_high wrote: »

Wonder had the OP been a pair of junkies or drinks ala Luas Red Line would the treatment meated out have been so severe?

Many addicts have free travel passes and are personally known to the CSOs on Luas, that's why their tickets aren't checked.

Victor

So, how did you get home that night? Do you have a pair of tickets for Newbridge-Sallins to collect the car?

xabi

Victor wrote: »

So, how did you get home that night? Do you have a pair of tickets for Newbridge-Sallins to collect the car?

Good thinking.

Sam Russell

Victor wrote: »

So, how did you get home that night? Do you have a pair of tickets for Newbridge-Sallins to collect the car?

Would only need one.

dalta5billion

Naas is only recently in the Short-Hop Zone. Hence the OP's recent decision to switch to getting on at Sallins instead of Newbridge. I've considered doing this as well, the price differential is huge.

Newbridge barriers are always open in the mornings. Who'd bother validating a monthly/annual ticket when the barriers are open? You're going to be checked in Heuston/on the way in anyways. The smaller carpark on the other side has no barriers at all and no way to tag on.

If the OP really was trying to sneakily get away with buying a 1-stop-short ticket she would have been caught long before now. Ticket inspectors are regularly on this route and come out to check for Newbridge passengers doing this precise thing between Newbridge and Naas.

It's super easy to miss your stop when you're commuting for hours each day to Heuston. Give over Columbo.

dixiefly

The OP does sound genuine and, for me anyway, on this site i would go with the assumptoin that the OP is telling the truth because, otherwise, the debate is irrelevant.

however, if you look from Irish Rail / Revenue point of view. They wouldnt do a blitz as comprehensive as this very often. they find a married couple who BOTH missed the stop in Sallins and who have an address in Newbridge. If I was them I would be raising my eyebrows to say the least.

Yeah yeah someone said about a commute being tiring, of course it is but I drive in and out of Dublin every day and cant afford to fall asleep as many others in a similar position. It was a Tuesday, I find i am much more tired on a Thursday or Friday.

As I said, I believe the OP both on the bway she described things and I would always believe an OP here but I can certainly understand why Revenue /IR are making an issue of this.

markpb

dixiefly wrote:

As I said, I believe the OP both on the bway she described things and I would always believe an OP here but I can certainly understand why Revenue /IR are making an issue of this.

That's a valid point but, for me, their approach has been terrible. Instead of making any effort to prove ongoing fraud by the OP, they just levy the fine and leave it for the victim to sort out. This isn't acceptable behavior from any part of the state towards its citizens or from any large company towards it's customers.

dev100

Surely common sense has to prevail.

You have all sorts scamming the system from the highest paid to the lowest paid in this country and then someone makes a genuine / silly mistake and you get roasted,

Fair enough you were silly and stayed on , genuine mistake I'm sure ticket inspectors deal with people who fall asleep or drunk on a daily basis etc and I would assume they deal with those type differently compared to a howiya hiding in the jacks ... common sense !!!! Imagine treating a tourist in such fashion . You may have to pay the taller fine but I'd fight it tooth and nail.

I used to travel by train and one Saturday my local station was closed and there was no station vending machines ( too small of a station ) I couldn't procure a ticket usually always a ticket man on the train. So in I went in ticketless into Connolly well let's say I barked back louder... they're only jobs worth


When you talked to the IE personnel who said you were being fined extra by assuming you were being fraudulent previously. Was it done over the phone when they said this ? The burden is on them to prove it and not for you to disprove it, to be quite honest I'd be asking them to write that down on paper if someone accused me of fraud I'd be seeing them in court, I'd be recording any and all phone calls from now on and sending registered letters etc . I'd also be procuring a solicitor for any interactions with IE



For future reference never hand over anything to these type of bullies . Your only crime is being naive.. don't ignore it time to fight back ....

XPS_Zero

Victor wrote: »

Many addicts have free travel passes and are personally known to the CSOs on Luas, that's why their tickets aren't checked.

Just to clarify, contrary to popular myth you don't get an FT pass "because" you're an addict (not suggesting Victor was saying that, just taking the opportunity to explain this), there is no illness or condition that automatically entitles you to Disability Allowance (thus an FT pass) just by having that condition, it doesn't work that way. It's based on a medical assessment and report that assesses how a condition affects your basic daily function (work, socializing etc) If the condition is interfering with those basics and that's apparent in your exam and recent medical history is consistent with that, then you might get it. The vast majority of addicts do not have one. Nobody has a pass "because" they're an addict, they may have a pass because of other conditions, related or unrelated to their having an addiction, impair basic daily function. Addicts usually have a myriad of other medical conditions that come along with the addiction.

We could never give disability allowance to people just based on a medical condition alone. Cancer could be an easy to treat stage 1 cancer treatable with some meds. Many people have some form of anxiety disorder and can still work because it's only triggered in certain situations and is managable with CBT. An addiction could be a housewife popping too many Oxicontin. If we gave disability payments based on just the condition alone the bill for it would explode.

I've seen it mentioned quite a few times on here that either

A) A bus driver did not ask to see a pass when an FT user fumbled the tag-on
Inspectors didn't check the person

As Victor said it may be obvious (physically) that they have a disability or serious illness or more likely they know them as they get the same bus/train/luas to the same hospital appointments or job the same times each week.

punisher5112

Will you come out of it.

The majority of drug addicts have them.

I have yet to come across one without.

If they have cleaned up and work they would no longer be eligible depending on wage.

Spanish Eyes

Victor wrote: »

So, how did you get home that night? Do you have a pair of tickets for Newbridge-Sallins to collect the car?

Was thinking the same thing.

After inspection could they not have said one of them needs to go back to Naas to pick up the car? Surely they explained this.

n97 mini

markpb wrote: »

That's a valid point but, for me, their approach has been terrible. Instead of making any effort to prove ongoing fraud by the OP, they just levy the fine and leave it for the victim to sort out. This isn't acceptable behavior from any part of the state towards its citizens or from any large company towards it's customers.

It's like the death penalty! Hang everyone and sometimes you'll get it right.

n97 mini

punisher5112 wrote: »

Will you come out of it.

The majority of drug addicts have them.

I have yet to come across one without.

If they have cleaned up and work they would no longer be eligible depending on wage.

I posted here before about a lad, under the influence of something, on the 16. Flashed the pass. Bus driver called him back, looked at the pass, told him it was for an OAP, and put him off (fair play).

XPS_Zero

punisher5112 wrote: »

Will you come out of it.

The majority of drug addicts have them.

I have yet to come across one without.

If they have cleaned up and work they would no longer be eligible depending on wage.

Your anecdotal experience is not evidence, so unless you have official figures that show the majority of drug addicts in the country are on disability allowance (which you could not have since it's not true) I'd just leave that alone.

I'm not sure what you mean by the last comment but you can work on Disability Allowance if you want, there are just income limits.

XPS_Zero

n97 mini wrote: »

I posted here before about a lad, under the influence of something, on the 16. Flashed the pass. Bus driver called him back, looked at the pass, told him it was for an OAP, and put him off (fair play).

Theres only a handful of those old cardboard passes left and soon they'll all be void. The new card is chipped and comes with a photo which, when taken, runs your face through a database to ensure you've only one card.

It's been years since passes indicated by color what the circumstances of the owner was, they scrapped that as it was basically giving peoples private health information out by default. The new cards don't show it, they only show vaid or not on the computer.