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UFC on Fox - Johnson vs Reis - Sat Apr 15th 2017

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    #212
    finglashoop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭finglashoop


    Kirby wrote: »
    It's easy to demonstrate skills when your opponents don't have any knock-out power. There is no risk. Most of the 125 ers couldn't knock you out if you gave them a crowbar.

    To knock him out they wojld5 have to hit him first. Didnt cody say he would go down and fight him?

    I think his weight class is his own. Not sute he can beat the top 2 or 3 in the weight above.


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    #213
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    finglashoop wrote: »
    DJ does it all. Not only that but he outstrikes strikers outwrestles wrestlers and then just submitted a bjj player who has never been tapped.

    So yes DJ's skills (mulitple) piss all over mcgregors skill.

    My view on the multiple weight thing

    Mcgregor, for example, can get down a weight to 145, fight at what is considered his natural weight at 155 whereas Dj i think is physically too small to go up a weight class.

    DJ said himself he walks around at 145lbs (can provide link) when entering camp. Urijah Faber walked around consistently at 148lbs. Dominick Cruz is on record cutting from 149lbs. Cody cut his last camp from 150lbs.

    We're talking at worst DJ giving up 3-6lbs on these guys. He already gives up reach advantage at Flyweight to most of his competitors. How much do you think Conor would be giving up on Nate, on Eddie, on Woodley? Nate is on record cutting from 190lbs (one camp), Eddie 182lbs, Woodley claims to walk at 200lbs. I'm not going to litigate the Nate weight argument again but it's 100% accurate to say Conor gave up at least 3-6lbs to Eddie and at least 5-10lbs to Nate.

    You can take shots at Conor's skills all you want but he's not afraid to fight bigger men, he's not afraid to give up a height and reach advantage either.

    The shots you're actually taking at his skill-set are also mean-spirited. Conor has amazing timing, distance, range, footwork, movement, cage IQ, counters. He's supremely talented (just like DJ).


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    #214
    finglashoop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭finglashoop


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    DJ said himself he walks around at 145lbs (can provide link) when entering camp. Urijah Faber walked around consistently at 148lbs. Dominick Cruz is on record cutting from 149lbs. Cody cut his last camp from 150lbs.

    We're talking at worst DJ giving up 3-6lbs on these guys. He already gives up reach advantage at Flyweight to most of his competitors. How much do you think Conor would be giving up on Nate, on Eddie, on Woodley? Nate is on record cutting from 190lbs (one camp), Eddie 182lbs, Woodley claims to walk at 200lbs. I'm not going to litigate the Nate weight argument again but it's 100% accurate to say Conor gave up at least 3-6lbs to Eddie and at least 5-10lbs to Nate.

    You can take shots at Conor's skills all you want but he's not afraid to fight bigger men, he's not afraid to give up a height and reach advantage either.

    The shots you're actually taking at his skill-set are also mean-spirited. Conor has amazing timing, distance, range, footwork, movement, cage IQ, counters. He's supremely talented (just like DJ).

    I mean height not weight. Im not sure his speed will make up for his reach disadvantage. The shots at mcgregors skill set are facts. DJ is supremely talented in all facets - Conor is not in his league in that regard.


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    #215
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    finglashoop wrote: »
    I mean height not weight. Im not sure his speed will make up for his reach disadvantage. The shots at mcgregors skill set are facts. DJ is supremely talented in all facets - Conor is not in his league in that regard.

    To be fair, DJ does put people to sleep far better than Conor does....

    http://www.mmafighting.com/2017/4/16/15319226/johnson-vs-reis-draws-lowest-overnight-numbers-in-ufc-on-fox-history
    Saturday night’s UFC on FOX 24 in Kansas City did the lowest overnight rating in the history of the UFC on FOX series.

    Looking for $1,000,000 purses when he can't even pull an audience on free tv, lowest ever ratings, SMH....


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    #216
    Gamebred
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gamebred


    https://twitter.com/jedigoodman/status/853746818261307392

    Have to agree with this.


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    #217
    how.gareth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭how.gareth


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    To be fair, DJ does put people to sleep far better than Conor does....

    http://www.mmafighting.com/2017/4/16/15319226/johnson-vs-reis-draws-lowest-overnight-numbers-in-ufc-on-fox-history



    Looking for $1,000,000 purses when he can't even pull an audience on free tv, lowest ever ratings, SMH....

    Someone just got their hoop burned, I watched dj for the first time last night and he was superb in everything he did but the opposition was terrible and he was #3 so it's fair to say that dj needs to expand his operation and move up to the next level if he wants the big payday and properly cement his reputation as one of the all time greats


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    #218
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,038 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    finglashoop wrote: »
    [
    DJ does it all. Not only that but he outstrikes strikers outwrestles wrestlers and then just submitted a bjj player who has never been tapped.
    Reis is a solid BJJ player. A mundials champ at brown belt back in 2004. So I'd guess he has his black belt since around then.

    But last night, DJ was punching the head off him in the lead up to the submission. He wasn't a black belt at that point. Elbow wide open like that is a mistake at blue belt level. When DJ hooked the arm, Reis didn't even try to escape the armbar. I'm not saying he would have gotten out, but he could try at least.

    One reason Conor hasn't won in that fashion is because his opponents don't make it that far. They are usually out before they hit the mat. The rare times he has gotten to mount, it's stopped quickly from strikes.
    My view on the multiple weight thing

    Mcgregor, for example, can get down a weight to 145, fight at what is considered his natural weight at 155 whereas Dj i think is physically too small to go up a weight class.
    DJ was originally a 135er. That's his natural weight, as much as 155 is Conor's natural weight. DJ started cutting down to 125, to give himself an advantage.


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    #219
    Beersmith
    Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Beersmith


    Wasn't he only at 135 because there was no 125. He was defo small at 135. No doubt he is a 125er. Seem to recall he often steps on the scale a little under 125 too


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    #220
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,143 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Just had a look on the UFC site and they give the following stats

    DJ: 5'3", 66" reach
    Benavidez: 5'4", 65" reach
    Cejudo: 5'4", 64" reach

    Compare that to
    Garbrandt: 5'8", 65" reach
    Cruz: 5'8", 68" reach
    TJ: 5'6", 67" reach

    So he is smaller than the 135ers, and when you compare him to the 125ers (and some others not listed) he's a bit on the short side compared to them too!

    Compare that to
    McGregor: 5'9", 74" reach
    Aldo: 5'7", 70" reach
    RDA: 5'9", 70" reach
    Alvarez: 5'9", 69" reach

    McGregor was the bigger man at FW and at LW than the LW's bar Diaz


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    #221
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #222
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,038 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Beersmith wrote: »
    Wasn't he only at 135 because there was no 125. He was defo small at 135. No doubt he is a 125er. Seem to recall he often steps on the scale a little under 125 too
    Yes and no...maybe.
    There was no 125 division in the UFC on his debut. But other smaller promotions had a 125 division before the UFC. I'm not sure if flyweight was an option when he was fighting in KotC and the likes.
    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Just had a look on the UFC site and they give the following stats

    DJ: 5'3", 66" reach
    Benavidez: 5'4", 65" reach
    Cejudo: 5'4", 64" reach

    Compare that to
    Garbrandt: 5'8", 65" reach
    Cruz: 5'8", 68" reach
    TJ: 5'6", 67" reach

    So he is smaller than the 135ers, and when you compare him to the 125ers (and some others not listed) he's a bit on the short side compared to them too!

    Compare that to
    McGregor: 5'9", 74" reach
    Aldo: 5'7", 70" reach
    RDA: 5'9", 70" reach
    Alvarez: 5'9", 69" reach

    McGregor was the bigger man at FW and at LW than the LW's bar Diaz
    But those height/reach stats, they only prove who is taller, not bigger.

    Johnny Hendricks is 5'9" with a 69" reach. Would you say that Hendricks is smaller than McGregor, RDA, and Aldo? Of course not, he's a middleweight.


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    #223
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    DJ said himself he walks around at 145lbs (can provide link) when entering camp. Urijah Faber walked around consistently at 148lbs. Dominick Cruz is on record cutting from 149lbs. Cody cut his last camp from 150lbs.

    We're talking at worst DJ giving up 3-6lbs on these guys. He already gives up reach advantage at Flyweight to most of his competitors. How much do you think Conor would be giving up on Nate, on Eddie, on Woodley? Nate is on record cutting from 190lbs (one camp), Eddie 182lbs, Woodley claims to walk at 200lbs. I'm not going to litigate the Nate weight argument again but it's 100% accurate to say Conor gave up at least 3-6lbs to Eddie and at least 5-10lbs to Nate.

    You can take shots at Conor's skills all you want but he's not afraid to fight bigger men, he's not afraid to give up a height and reach advantage either.

    The shots you're actually taking at his skill-set are also mean-spirited. Conor has amazing timing, distance, range, footwork, movement, cage IQ, counters. He's supremely talented (just like DJ).


    You're conflating two different things.

    "walking around" weight and the weight people cut from are not the same.

    Walking around weight is what you're at, out of camp, with a belly full of whatever the hell you want.

    The weight you cut from is when you're lean from an 8 week+ training camp and cutting water to make weight.


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    #224
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Mellor wrote: »
    Johnny Hendricks is 5'9" with a 69" reach. Would you say that Hendricks is smaller than McGregor, RDA, and Aldo? Of course not, he's a middleweight.

    He is, like Gastelum, a fat welterweight. If they both had some discipline they'd have no problem making 170.


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    #225
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,038 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    He is, like Gastelum, a fat welterweight. If they both had some discipline they'd have no problem making 170.
    Even as a disciplined WW Johnny is significantly bigger than Aldo at 145. The point is the same, using height/reach instead of weight to compare a fighter's size is just silly.


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    #226
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Mellor wrote: »
    Even as a disciplined WW Johnny is significantly bigger than Aldo at 145. The point is the same, using height/reach instead of weight to compare a fighter's size is just silly.

    It is. But in this case I think we can all agree that DJ when we're not being silly that DJ was a small man at 135 and 125 is a much better fit for him.


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    #227
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,143 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Mellor wrote: »
    Yes and no...maybe.
    There was no 125 division in the UFC on his debut. But other smaller promotions had a 125 division before the UFC. I'm not sure if flyweight was an option when he was fighting in KotC and the likes.


    But those height/reach stats, they only prove who is taller, not bigger.

    Johnny Hendricks is 5'9" with a 69" reach. Would you say that Hendricks is smaller than McGregor, RDA, and Aldo? Of course not, he's a middleweight.

    I would say Hendricks is shorter and has a shorter reach than those listed.

    Hendricks is also an outlier as he's so chunky. None of the guys I listed are in anyway chunky like that.

    What I was showing was that roughly speaking DJ would be very much a 125er and not a 135er.


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