All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

PTH2009

Good wins for Meath and Laois

With Tipp losing the league final by 16 points they will try too restore pride against Cork and could do a number on them

Galway have a very good chance of going all the way this year

Hammer Archer

Great performance from us. We're unbeaten competitively for over a year now. Should have won by more. Great chance for us to make the quarter final.
Though survival alone would be fantastic.

dubcat51

Galway showed to much today just like 12 leinster final.

dubcat51

dubcat51 wrote: »

Galway showed to much today just like 12 leinster final.

I've seen enough evidence, from enough sports, to know you're more likely to follow up a bad performance with another and likewise with a good one.

This GAA notion of "peaking too early" and "showing your hand" is utter nonsense.

Barcelona among many others are able to win week in, week out over a nine month period, playing two games a week.

Galway won today not because everything flew over the bar or the net was rattled a few more than usual.
The won because they hassled and harried and forced Tipp to clear balls out of their defence with their heads down or with half spins to the open side.

Galway were also able to win the breaking balls on puck outs and drive out of defence and pick out 60-40 balls.

2012 was 20 mins of everything going right for one, while nothing for the other.
Similar to Galway/Kerry in the U21 last week.

Today Galway were the better team for all 70mins.
There's nothing to suggest that effort and commitment will change during the summer because they produced it in April.

Galway have now hit 20 points+ in 5 games running against genuine teams this spring.
Wex/Wford/Tipp/Limerick x2.
When you're scoring 20 points, even without goals, you're going to be hard to beat.
Its nearly a winnable total without a single goal.

Kerrydude1981

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Great performance from us. We're unbeaten competitively for over a year now. Should have won by more. Great chance for us to make the quarter final.
Though survival alone would be fantastic.

I dont see it as a massive shock us losing today,as I said many a time before when we won the Christy Ring,the game in Tralee against Meath was the toughest game we had that year,

Now I know I said earlier in this thread if are progressing then we should be winning today,but at this level there is noting between each team,

All I can say is to Meath is to drive it on next week against Laois and dont fall into the trap we fell into last year and fade in the second and third rounds of the round robin,We beat Carlow in Tralee and then the bandwagon really started rolling but I think expectation took its toll of our lads last year,they couldnt handle it tbh

The biggest thing about it is RTE dont/wont show highlights of the round robin games.

But if there was a first round of the football provincial championships,they will show highlights no matter what level the teams are at.

dubcat51

Beat kk by 10 in leinster final of 12.lost replay of 12 all ireland by 11.

mountgomery burns

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I've seen enough evidence, from enough sports, to know you're more likely to follow up a bad performance with another and likewise with a good one.

This GAA notion of "peaking too early" and "showing your hand" is utter nonsense.

Barcelona among many others are able to win week in, week out over a nine month period, playing two games a week.

Galway won today not because everything flew over the bar like in or the net was rattled a few more than usual.
The won because they hassled and harried and forced Tipp to clear balls out of their defence with their heads down or with half spins to the open side.

Galway were also able to win the breaking balls on puck outs and drive out of defence and pick out 60-40 balls.

2012 was 20 mins of everything going right for one, while nothing for the other.
Similar to Galway/Kerry in the U21 last night.

Today Galway were the better team for all 70mins.
There's nothing to suggest that will change during the summer.

Galway have now hit 20 points+ in 5 games running against genuine teams this spring.
Wex/Wford/Tipp/Limerick x2.
When you're scoring 20 points without goals you're going to be hard to beat.
Its nearly a winnable total without a single goal.

While I do think Galway are lethal up front and a very good side all round that could win an all ireland, I'm not sure what you mean by there is nothing to suggest Galway won't dominate Tipp for 70 minutes in the championship. They'd done well to win the league, Waterford and Clare bet Tipp in the process of winning the last two year as well though. Clare also hammered the reigning all ireland champions in the process last year.

Just because neither of those teams won an all ireland doesn't mean Galway won't, but don't lose the run of yourself either.

mountgomery burns

mountgomery burns wrote: »

While I do think Galway are lethal up front and a very good side all round that could win an all ireland, I'm not sure what you mean by there is nothing to suggest Galway won't dominate Tipp for 70 minutes in the championship. They'd done well to win the league, Waterford and Clare bet Tipp in the process of winning the last two year as well though. Clare also hammered the reigning all ireland champions in the process last year.

Just because neither of those teams won an all ireland doesn't mean Galway won't, but don't lose the run of yourself either.

That's not what I meant and I had edited my post to reflect that since.
Was just busy when I initially wrote it.

I meant there was nothing to suggest that work rate, and hassling the man in possession will disappear.
Its more likely to happen again if it happened before... more likely than if it didn't happen in the last game.

2012 was nothing like today.

It was a 20 minute period where we scored something like 2-12 and KK only managed 2/3 and had a mini revival in the second half.
Today was a sustained effort of 70 mins of being the better team.

There's very few lads even remaining from that team.
It's not even relevant anymore, similarly for KK. They're a shadow of that year now.

Bonniedog

Just throw a set of stripy jerseys in front of them...

Hammer Archer

Just out of interest and not getting ahead of myself, anyone know which round robin team will play in which quarter final? Westmeath won the group last year and their reward was a meeting with Galway. Offaly came second and were rewarded with a much simpler tie against Laois.

dastardly00

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Just out of interest and not getting ahead of myself, anyone know which round robin team will play in which quarter final? Westmeath won the group last year and their reward was a meeting with Galway. Offaly came second and were rewarded with a much simpler tie against Laois.

I don't think it has been announced which of first/second plays Wexford/Offaly. Obviously you'd want Offaly.

I'm trying to remember back to last year... was the quarter-final draw permutations announced before the end of the round robin series? I think it was...

dr.kenneth noisewater

Hammer Archer wrote:

Just out of interest and not getting ahead of myself, anyone know which round robin team will play in which quarter final? Westmeath won the group last year and their reward was a meeting with Galway. Offaly came second and were rewarded with a much simpler tie against Laois.

They pre determined the QF before the round robin last year but they are doing a new draw when the top 2 are known this year

Hammer Archer

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

I dont see it as a massive shock us losing today,as I said many a time before when we won the Christy Ring,the game in Tralee against Meath was the toughest game we had that year,

Now I know I said earlier in this thread if are progressing then we should be winning today,but at this level there is noting between each team,

All I can say is to Meath is to drive it on next week against Laois and dont fall into the trap we fell into last year and fade in the second and third rounds of the round robin,We beat Carlow in Tralee and then the bandwagon really started rolling but I think expectation took its toll of our lads last year,they couldnt handle it tbh

The biggest thing about it is RTE dont/wont show highlights of the round robin games.

But if there was a first round of the football provincial championships,they will show highlights no matter what level the teams are at.

I am worried that our performance will drop. A Kerry win next week and us losing our last two games could still see us drop.


There have been absolutely huge strides made in Meath hurling over the last number of years, mostly at underage level. Here's an interesting article on the High Kings development programme on-going in Meath and run by Peter Durnin http://www.gaa.ie/features/feature/meath-hurling-royal-lineage/
I've noticed a marked increase in kids simply pucking a sliotar around which would have been a rarity even 10 years ago. We're beginning to see the rewards of these initiatives but it would be phenomenal if we could stay in the Leinster championship for a number of years so that these younger players could go straight into playing against higher quality teams. We've still got several players from last year's U21B winners to come through and it'll be interesting to see if Jack Fagan (who's now with Waterford) can possibly be enticed back to play for Meath.

Kerrydude1981

Hammer Archer wrote: »

I am worried that our performance will drop. A Kerry win next week and us losing our last two games could still see us drop.


There have been absolutely huge strides made in Meath hurling over the last number of years, mostly at underage level. Here's an interesting article on the High Kings development programme on-going in Meath and run by Peter Durnin http://www.gaa.ie/features/feature/meath-hurling-royal-lineage/
I've noticed a marked increase in kids simply pucking a sliotar around which would have been a rarity even 10 years ago. We're beginning to see the rewards of these initiatives but it would be phenomenal if we could stay in the Leinster championship for a number of years so that these younger players could go straight into playing against higher quality teams. We've still got several players from last year's U21B winners to come through and it'll be interesting to see if Jack Fagan (who's now with Waterford) can possibly be enticed back to play for Meath.

And it wasnt so long ago Gerry McEntee was telling people to burn the hurleys in Meath.

From that Christy Ring game in Tralee,Jack Regan was playing and he was outstanding that day,is he not on the panel anymore?

Hammer Archer

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

And it wasnt so long ago Gerry McEntee was telling people to burn the hurleys in Meath.

From that Christy Ring game in Tralee,Jack Regan was playing and he was outstanding that day,is he not on the panel anymore?

There is still a near hatred of hurling in some parts of Meath which I generally cannot understand. Seeing them relatively successful kills them.
I know he had injury troubles last year which kept him out of the Christy Ring team. He played in the U21B winning team but wasn't massively impressive that day. I'm not sure if he's injured at the moment or just isn't on the panel. In the forwards I think we're pretty much set. We've got Clynch who would be more prolific from set pieces and then we have the likes of Quigley, Gannon, McGowan, O'Sullivan from open play.
Defence is where we have problems that were exposed at times yesterday. Shane Nolan had a field day at times yesterday.

Tombo2001

Worth noting of course that Meath is a handball stronghold, and counties that do well in handball frequently are also good at hurling (Kilkenny, Cork, Tipp, Carlow, Antrim).

Django99

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Worth noting of course that Meath is a handball stronghold, and counties that do well in handball frequently are also good at hurling (Kilkenny, Cork, Tipp, Carlow, Antrim).

Few good hand ballers in Clare too. I had never though that of the link between the too, but it makes sense. Hand ball is a good compliment as a winter sport, for fitness and keeping the eye in.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Worth noting of course that Meath is a handball stronghold, and counties that do well in handball frequently are also good at hurling (Kilkenny, Cork, Tipp, Carlow, Antrim).

I lived in Mayo for a few years as a teen and Handball was popular enough there... didn't seem to do them much good.
Compared to living in Galway City it was day and night.
Never saw anyone play it here whereas in Mayo it was played at lunch time by a fair amount.

MfMan

Hammer Archer wrote: »

There is still a near hatred of hurling in some parts of Meath which I generally cannot understand. Seeing them relatively successful kills them.
I know he had injury troubles last year which kept him out of the Christy Ring team. He played in the U21B winning team but wasn't massively impressive that day. I'm not sure if he's injured at the moment or just isn't on the panel. In the forwards I think we're pretty much set. We've got Clynch who would be more prolific from set pieces and then we have the likes of Quigley, Gannon, McGowan, O'Sullivan from open play.
Defence is where we have problems that were exposed at times yesterday. Shane Nolan had a field day at times yesterday.

Is GAA in Meath clearly defined geographically? e.g. in Galway, south is hurling, north and west mainly football.

Hammer Archer

MfMan wrote: »

Is GAA in Meath clearly defined geographically? e.g. in Galway, south is hurling, north and west mainly football.

The hurling strongholds would all be in the south of the county. I can't remember a SHC champion that wouldn't be from the south. The most northerly club in this season's SHC would be Dunderry who are just to the north of Trim. Indeed the only clubs you could consider "North Meath" that have a hurling club of their own would be Kilskyre/Moylagh, Gaeil Colmcille (Kells) and Wolfe Tones (Kilberry, Gibbstown etc.).


If I'm not mistaken, south Meath, north Kildare and west Westmeath form a triangle of hurling. If this area was a county of its own, I'd say they'd form a pretty decent intercounty team.

Tombo2001

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I lived in Mayo for a few years as a teen and Handball was popular enough there... didn't seem to do them much good.
Compared to living in Galway City it was day and night.
Never saw anyone play it here whereas in Mayo it was played at lunch time by a fair amount.

That's fair enough and I know its popular enough in pockets in non-Hurling counties; Paul Brady is from Cavan and played football for Cavan.

So its not a rule...

However there is a good connection between handball and hurling in terms of co-ordination and skillsets. Kilkenny is the only county that I would say its quite common for people to play both.

feargale

Hammer Archer wrote: »

The hurling strongholds would all be in the south of the county. I can't remember a SHC champion that wouldn't be from the south. The most northerly club in this season's SHC would be Dunderry who are just to the north of Trim. Indeed the only clubs you could consider "North Meath" that have a hurling club of their own would be Kilskyre/Moylagh, Gaeil Colmcille (Kells) and Wolfe Tones (Kilberry, Gibbstown etc.).

If I'm not mistaken, south Meath, north Kildare and west Westmeath form a triangle of hurling. If this area was a county of its own, I'd say they'd form a pretty decent intercounty team.

Congrats, Hammer Archer to Meath on Sunday's win.

I believe the hurling/football divide often follows diocesan boundaries, e.g. Offaly hurling takes in the Diocese of Killaloe plus Banagher (the only Offaly parish in Clonfert) and Kilcormac ( in Meath, an exception.) In Laois football dominates the east (Kildare) and hurling the west ( Ossory. ) Wicklow's hurling stronghold consists of three or four parishes bordering Wexford, all in the Diocese of Ferns. Galway's hurling area approximates to Clonfert, except for Galway city and one or two parishes in Tuam bordering Clonfert ( Abbeyknockmoy?)
It may be because priests had (have?) considerable influence in the GAA, and pushed the game they were familiar with, or because fellows from those parishes went to diocesan boarding schools where hurling was the dominant game.
It's just a theory. Some of you may disagree with it. Go ahead. I've thrown in the ball!

PTH2009

Kerry 0-20- Westmeath 2-12
Laois 3-25- Meath 2-13

Laois through to the qfs now and Meath, Kerry both on 2 points. Westmeaths year effectively over. Last round 14th may Westmeath vs Meath and Kerry vs Laois

Does it go by h2h or points difference if teams finish on the same amount of points

Laois and whoever finishes 2nd will be paired off with either Offaly or Wexford in the Leinster Qfs (to be played 27/28 May)

arctictree

feargale wrote: »

Wicklow's hurling stronghold consists of three or four parishes bordering Wexford, all in the Diocese of Ferns

Wouldn't really agree with that. There is a pretty even spread of hurling clubs throughout the county. Carnew,Arklow in the south, Kiltegan in the west, Avondale,Glenealy,St Pats (Wicklow Town) in the middle and Bray, Eire Og (Greystones), Kilcoole in the North.

Can't comment on the other counties.

Bonniedog

Gleneally/Rathnew would disprove Wicklow theory.

An Ciarraioch

PTH2009 wrote: »

Kerry 0-20- Westmeath 2-12
Laois 3-25- Meath 2-13

Laois through to the qfs now and Meath, Kerry both on 2 points. Westmeaths year effectively over. Last round 14th may Westmeath vs Meath and Kerry vs Laois

Does it go by h2h or points difference if teams finish on the same amount of points

Laois and whoever finishes 2nd will be paired off with either Offaly or Wexford in the Leinster Qfs (to be played 27/28 May)

If Laois and Westmeath both win, then Westmeath would qualify, as better points difference in that case than either Kerry or Meath. If only two teams on same points, H2H applies.

PTH2009

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

If Laois and Westmeath both win, then Westmeath would qualify, as better points difference in that case than either Kerry or Meath. If only two teams on same points, H2H applies.

Bit of a farce that Westmeath can still make it through after losing 2 games. Possibly Laois may play a weak enough team vs Kerry as there through already

Cud be wrong but does the team who finishes 4th get relegated too the Christy Ring for 2018 so all teams except Laois have too play there's hearts out on the 14th May

Hammer Archer

Big come down for Meath today. Don't think we really deserved to lose by 15 points but Laois just punished every mistake we made. Also missed a criminal amount of chances as well as a penalty in the second half.
Would be bitterly disappointing if we were to be relegated. Need something against Westmeath.

An Ciarraioch

PTH2009 wrote: »

Bit of a farce that Westmeath can still make it through after losing 2 games. Possibly Laois may play a weak enough team vs Kerry as there through already

Cud be wrong but does the team who finishes 4th get relegated too the Christy Ring for 2018 so all teams except Laois have too play there's hearts out on the 14th May

Yes - bottom team automatically relegated.

Django99

PTH2009 wrote: »

Bit of a farce that Westmeath can still make it through after losing 2 games. Possibly Laois may play a weak enough team vs Kerry as there through already

Cud be wrong but does the team who finishes 4th get relegated too the Christy Ring for 2018 so all teams except Laois have too play there's hearts out on the 14th May

How is it a farce? That's how a group of four works. One win can be enough to finish second.