The JBL Bullying Thread

beakerjoe

I think Dave has been for 30 years the top guy in relation to wrestling reporting. No doubt about it.

Do I think Dave is completely honest and unbiased and beyond criticism? No.

Meltzer has his favourites and his sources who are either pro wrestlers or former pro wrestlers. Take Ric Flair as an example. He is a very open Flair mark and over the years he has built up a relationship with him. He never fully covers any of Flairs negative stories if at all. If Justin Credible had the same troubles as Flair ( ****ting himself in public, arrested, kicked out of airports) he'd report it, but with Flair, because of his relationship with Flair these stories never come up on WON.

Take Ring of Honor the last 12 months. Dave has a very good relationship with ROH front office, in particular Delirious. The company is in trouble, attendance numbers are down, wrestlers have been leaving on bad terms (Cedric Alexander, ACH, Lio Rush, Keith Lee, Kevin Kelly, Steve Corino), but Meltzer paints a picture of ROH being fine, he even inflates the numbers of ROH live events.

Mauro is a friend of WON, like Flair and Delirious, so that's why I take reports involving his buddies cautiously until other facts come out as Dave has a tendency to be kinder to his friends when reporting.

Monokne

Flair never shat himself in public.

Given JBLs history you're seriously doubting the veracity of the story? Ok then.

beakerjoe

Monokne wrote: »

Flair never shat himself in public.

Given JBLs history you're seriously doubting the veracity of the story? Ok then.

Its alleged that Flair was so drunk soiled himself in a hotel bar the night of his WWE return. No coverage from Meltzer as to why he was removed so quickly from TV after that.

In relation to the Mauro story, Im just reserving my judgment until actual facts come to light. Is that so unreasonable?

Lord TSC

beakerjoe wrote: »

Its alleged that Flair was so drunk soiled himself in a hotel bar the night of his WWE return. No coverage from Meltzer as to why he was removed so quickly from TV after that.

In relation to the Mauro story, Im just reserving my judgment until actual facts come to light. Is that so unreasonable?

My frustration with your view would be...what facts do you think would come to light?

You're in a position where Mauro won't be able to say **** all for a few months, at least, due to his contract probably stopping him. Even then, he might not be the type when he leaves to do some "tell all", and by then, will he be dismissed as a bitter ex-employee venting his frustrations? No one inside WWE will want to put their names on anything either, or they'd lose their jobs. Meltzer won't name any of his sources either, and nor should he; his journalistic credibility would be destroyed if he burned people like that.

You're not going to get "facts", but when I see everyone who'd be "in the know", people I'd trust to relay information and who've proven in the past they are in a position to get that information, being outraged and massively angry about whats happened, then it's very naive to dismiss it as "yes, but what facts have we." Especially with someone who has a massive track record over two decades.

The reaction from everyone who would know whats happening has been to absolutely be furious with JBL. "Whataboutery" doesn't change that.

I'd also point out...the Flair story, for instance. What do you want Meltzer to do there? The story is there, no one is denying it, but that's a horribly bad story of an individual with a drink problem, which is something that needs to be dealt with in private. It's not a case of a person with a known mental disorder being bullied out of his job by a serial-bully, working for a company who hypocritically push an anti-bullying campaign. Of course it's treated different, because it should be treated different.

"But what about..." doesn't change the Mauro story at all. It doesn't excuse anyone at all.

beakerjoe

Lord TSC wrote: »

My frustration with your view would be...what facts do you think would come to light?

You're in a position where Mauro won't be able to say **** all for a few months, at least, due to his contract probably stopping him. Even then, he might not be the type when he leaves to do some "tell all", and by then, will he be dismissed as a bitter ex-employee venting his frustrations? No one inside WWE will want to put their names on anything either, or they'd lose their jobs. Meltzer won't name any of his sources either, and nor should he; his journalistic credibility would be destroyed if he burned people like that.

You're not going to get "facts", but when I see everyone who'd be "in the know", people I'd trust to relay information and who've proven in the past they are in a position to get that information, being outraged and massively angry about whats happened, then it's very naive to dismiss it as "yes, but what facts have we." Especially with someone who has a massive track record over two decades.

Id love to know what happened and until then I think its ridiculous for people to say JBL should lose his job for it when no one has come out with whats actually transpired.

Just because someone has a reputation doesnt mean they are guilty. If no facts do come to light its unfair to judge someone on their past failings.

My issue that while Meltzer is not as trust worthy in my eyes as he tends to report more favourable on his friends.

The reaction from everyone who would know whats happening has been to absolutely be furious with JBL. "Whataboutery" doesn't change that.

I'd also point out...the Flair story, for instance. What do you want Meltzer to do there? The story is there, no one is denying it, but that's a horribly bad story of an individual with a drink problem, which is something that needs to be dealt with in private. It's not a case of a person with a known mental disorder being bullied out of his job by a serial-bully, working for a company who hypocritically push an anti-bullying campaign. Of course it's treated different, because it should be treated different.

[/QUOTE]

I agree that its horrible what happened to Flair, but my point is that if it happened to a wrestler who isn't as close with Dave it would be reported. Why does Flair get a pass?

Lord TSC

beakerjoe wrote: »

Why does Flair get a pass?

Because you deal with bullies completely differently than you deal with someone with a drink problem. Do you think that it would be better if Meltzer lumped on Flair and started trying to publicly milk the fact that Flair needs help? It's two entirely different situations.

EDIT: I'll add, reading up on the Flair incident...it's bad for Flair. If WWE yank him, then Flair will deserve that too. Meltzer is focusing on the bullying story because, ultimately, it's a larger story and will likely see the perpetrators get off scott free, while Flair will obviously get punished for his fiasco too.

beakerjoe

Lord TSC wrote: »

Because you deal with bullies completely differently than you deal with someone with a drink problem. Do you think that it would be better if Meltzer lumped on Flair and started trying to publicly milk the fact that Flair needs help? It's two entirely different situations.

You missed my point.

Scott Hall for example would be reported on if got in a drunken state, then shat himself on the night of his WWE return.

Flair didnt.

Its a double standard.

BTW The Flair incident happened in January and was not reported. He returned and was due to be on TV siding with sasha. He was removed straight away by WWE and no mention of it at all in WON. If the same incident happens with Scott Hall, there is at least some coverage.

Anyway, my point is Meltzers shows biased towards his friends, and in this Mauro situation he may be biased.

I will say I feel so far, he has handled it well. But I'm still reserving my judgment on how big a deal it is until (if ever) any concrete facts come to light.

Monokne

beakerjoe wrote: »

Its alleged that Flair was so drunk soiled himself in a hotel bar the night of his WWE return. No coverage from Meltzer as to why he was removed so quickly from TV after that.

In relation to the Mauro story, Im just reserving my judgment until actual facts come to light. Is that so unreasonable?

I know that was alleged, by Trevor, and I know that Conrad Thompson who was with him said it was bullsh*t. Do you really think this needed to be covered in the Observer?

Monokne

beakerjoe wrote: »

You missed my point.

Scott Hall for example would be reported on if got in a drunken state, then shat himself on the night of his WWE return.

Flair didnt.

Its a double standard.

BTW The Flair incident happened in January and was not reported. He returned and was due to be on TV siding with sasha. He was removed straight away by WWE and no mention of it at all in WON. If the same incident happens with Scott Hall, there is at least some coverage.

Anyway, my point is Meltzers shows biased towards his friends, and in this Mauro situation he may be biased.

I will say I feel so far, he has handled it well. But I'm still reserving my judgment on how big a deal it is until (if ever) any concrete facts come to light.

Incidentally, can you point me to the coverage of this Flair story on PW Torch, Prowrestling.net, PWInsider etc? Where this was reported as fact?

beakerjoe

Monokne wrote: »

Incidentally, can you point me to the coverage of this Flair story on PW Torch, Prowrestling.net, PWInsider etc? Where this was reported as fact?

Id love a reason as to why Flair was suddenly pulled from the television so quickly after his return. That Id love reported.

Flair returns and is pulled so quickly without reason? Id like that covered, yes

Monokne

Where was it reported Flair was with Sasha long term?

beakerjoe

Monokne wrote: »

Where was it reported Flair was with Sasha long term?

I found it odd that he was back endorsing Sasha and then gone. Did you not find that odd?

Lord TSC

beakerjoe wrote: »

I found it odd that he was back endorsing Sasha and then gone. Did you not find that odd?

The story was told; he endorsed Sasha. Did you think he was going to be her manager going forward?

I also genuinely don't get the logic of "Meltzer won't attack Flair for his **** up, ergo we can't trust him about JBL".

jaykhunter

(Per WON) Jubble's been going on a blocking spree for anyone that sent Mauro well wishes, even if you didn't @ him. Check your twitter! Funny that him winning OSW's **** of the year didn't get me blocked by this did :P

Lithium93_

Well that's pettiness on JBL's part..

Agent Coulson

JBL should be really be Twitter bombed with with something along the lines of #Don'tBeABullyJBL #BeAStarJBL.


That will get his ban hammer go into overdrive.

DM_7

Can someone tell me what JBL did to Mauro?

Not the nasty stuff to other people in the past, specifically Mauro.

A Rogue Hobo

This is what I don't get really get about internet culture. There are rumours that Person A has bullied person B, but there is no proof and person B will not speak on the issue. We should all bombard person A with messages and bully him! Justice is served am I right!? No.

Zero logic and nothing achieved. Why not just let this play out until there is some sort of statement from Mauro when he's healthy and it can be dealt with accordingly instead of jumping into hysteria mode immediately because you heard a story. It's not the school yard anymore guys, if (God forbid) your kid was getting bullied in school, is your solution honestly gonna be to walk in and kick the classroom door down and give this bully a Chinese burn and think "job done, my kid is safe!"? I hope not.

Lord TSC

DM_7 wrote: »

Can someone tell me what JBL did to Mauro?

Not the nasty stuff to other people in the past, specifically Mauro.

Publicly, JBL seemed to take the news that Mauro got the award of "Best Announcer" (from Wrestling Observer, I think) badly, and ranted about it on Twitter and on "Bring it to the Table". Publicly, thats all we know with regards specifics. If you want specific facts after that, they aren't publicly available.

What we do know beyond that is everyone close to the situation is saying JBL has effectively driven Mauro from his job, bullying him in spite of his well documented mental health issues. The people you would expect to have the inside track have lumped on JBL quite angrily.

I appreciate the "facts", such as they are, are not specifically out there, but it really isn't hard to read between the lines; Mauro has lost or quit his job, because of JBL. Nearly everyone who is in a position to show support to a side has chosen Mauro's, and while Mauro has not mentioned specifics on Twitter, he's quite clearly referred to it.

He, and WWE, could have cleared up any untrue stories, allegations or assumptions quite easily, but have opted not to. I don't know how anyone could read who is being anti-JBL, what people are saying, and then think "No, there's nothing there..."

JBL has been blocking everyone who has shown mauro support on Twitter, regardless of if they targetted him with their tweets. Young Bucks got blocked, and Mauro responded.

briany

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

This is what I don't get really get about internet culture. There are rumours that Person A has bullied person B, but there is no proof and person B will not speak on the issue. We should all bombard person A with messages and bully him! Justice is served am I right!? No.

The thing with Ranallo has not been substantiated at this time. That's just two and two speculation. It's been compounded by the thing with Justin Roberts' passport being stolen, John Morrison claiming that JBL told him to do so, and now Meltzer's come in on the story and started talking about all these people coming forward to him to either say 'thank you' for reporting on JBL's behaviour over the years, be they bystanders or self-proclaimed direct victims of it. The story has legs beyond the Ranallo stuff at this point.

The story that is developing at this time is that JBL went beyond being a ribber or taking liberties in the ring to being a guy who would systematically abuse people where and when he thought he could get away with it, and that he was being protected, in a sense, by the company because this was apparently behaviour endorsed by Vince. Problem with all that being, even beyond it being non-conducive to a professional work environment, WWE are touting a big anti-bullying campaign at the moment, and one thing they don't need is the public perception that they had been harbouring someone who had been victimising fellow talent during his tenure with the company.

A Rogue Hobo

I fully understand the situation and what exactly is occurring, and MORE than likely there is truth to the stories I will acknowledge that. BUT we don't know for sure. My point is, do people not understand that by trolling him and sending him hateful messages (not saying anyone here is doing that btw but it definitely is happening) without an explanation from the horses mouth of what happened that they're no better than him?

Neil3030

Is JBL really in the Orange Order, or is that someone editing his Wiki for the craic?

carlowdude

JBL back in the day with christian in the shower....man that guy.........alot of stories of jbl bullying renee dupree and discriminating. But he was knocked out by joey styles anyways so hahahaha

Lithium93_

Bradshaw tried to get "tough" with Steve Blackman as well, didn't exactly work out for Bradshaw.

Itssoeasy

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Bradshaw tried to get "tough" with Steve Blackman as well, didn't exactly work out for Bradshaw.

Yeah I can just imagine how that went.

Lithium93_

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah I can just imagine how that went.

Bradshaw apologizing with tail tucked between legs.

I think his past character is really hampering is current standing and rightly so. However what he did on twitter and bring it to the table was not bullying in my opinion

briany

Neil3030 wrote: »

Is JBL really in the Orange Order, or is that someone editing his Wiki for the craic?

Well, it's a standalone, left-field, and not hitherto (at least not that I've ever seen) corroborated factoid, and that lacks a citation, so I would be dubious.

CSF

Sirsok wrote: »

I think his past character is really hampering is current standing and rightly so. However what he did on twitter and bring it to the table was not bullying in my opinion

I'd be surprised if Mauro left his dream job over a few tweets and an interview alone though.

A Brad Maddox Guy

I can understand why a lot of you are giving JBL flack but I think I'm somewhere in the middle on both positions here. Do I think Bradshaw's a d!ck? Hell yeah, there's plenty of stories going back 20 years to back it up. Do I trust Meltzer for info? Yep, probably more than anyone. But without having specific examples of how JBL bullied Mauro I just can't condone calls for him to be fired and sent torrents of abuse. A few tweets and a rant on a WWE produced show is not enough to warrant a man getting fired unless something more comes out (which of course is a possibility). Maybe he bullied him, in fact past character suggests he probably did given the reaction, but probably isn't good enough imo.