Now Ye're Talking - to a Head of Department in an Institute of Technology

Thebe

I've applied for a masters in an IoT but I have a nagging doubt about this being somewhat less beneficial to my career than a university. I am happy with the cost, the hours, the modules etc. but I am not totally confident that the IoT qualification will be as valued as I think it should be.

Would you have any experiences of this?

Reati

What could I do (I do lots of campus visits) to help students think about how how industry really works and improve their chances in coming to interview?

I think death by PowerPoint doesn't do much for my case

dingding

You mentioned that you were doing a PhD, I am interested, is the topic area Management, Teaching and Learning or Technology or some combination.

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

5rtytry56 wrote: »

Any particular views on the proliferation of cameras in mobile devices? - now that the smartphone owned by the Joe Public has 2 cameras (main and front facing). Do you have concerns about this, particularly students recording videos on the smartphone in class?

Funny you mention that, I had two female members of staff come to me last week about a student who has, shall we say, issues, recording them.

Its like a lot of technology - it can be used for both good and bad purposes. As a proponent of technology, I am firmly of the belief that anything that improves the learning experience is to be encouraged. However, the covert (or overt) recording of staff, without their explicit permission/consent is technically illegal. I know every institution has a policy on such activities and as long as everyone adheres to what is acceptable and legal, then there should be no problems.

Thebe wrote: »

I've applied for a masters in an IoT but I have a nagging doubt about this being somewhat less beneficial to my career than a university. I am happy with the cost, the hours, the modules etc. but I am not totally confident that the IoT qualification will be as valued as I think it should be.

Would you have any experiences of this?

If I switch off my academic head for a moment and put on my industry hat, I don't think it matters. I did my masters in a private college and had similar reservations. But to be honest, once you get to a certain level (i.e. not a recent graduate), its very much a case of: honours degree? Check. Masters degree? Check. So I honestly wouldn't worry about it.

Reati wrote: »

What could I do (I do lots of campus visits) to help students think about how how industry really works and improve their chances in coming to interview?

I think death by PowerPoint doesn't do much for my case

I assume you are an employer?

Without question, the most effective recruitment tool is recent graduates. Somebody who was in a lecture hall last year who the current students can relate to.

Oh, and shiny things.

dingding wrote: »

You mentioned that you were doing a PhD, I am interested, is the topic area Management, Teaching and Learning or Technology or some combination.

Technology, of course.

Thebe

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

If I switch off my academic head for a moment and put on my industry hat, I don't think it matters. I did my masters in a private college and had similar reservations. But to be honest, once you get to a certain level (i.e. not a recent graduate), its very much a case of: honours degree? Check. Masters degree? Check. So I honestly wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks for your opinion, much obliged.

slovakchick

Hi, do you think the over supply of free generic springboard IT hdips in computing is really what IT emploers are looking for? Also regarding some of the modules on these course Ive havent heard of many employers looking for a candidate with uml skills yet all of these have it at their core. Why bother with uml and other marginal topics if the indutry doesnt? Also do you thik c# is going to bethe dominant language for the next few years in software?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

slovakchick wrote: »

Hi, do you think the over supply of free generic springboard IT hdips in computing is really what IT emploers are looking for? Also regarding some of the modules on these course Ive havent heard of many employers looking for a candidate with uml skills yet all of these have it at their core. Why bother with uml and other marginal topics if the indutry doesnt? Also do you thik c# is going to bethe dominant language for the next few years in software?

I suppose you really have to ask how a graduate with tour years of a Level 8 compares to a Springboard graduate. However, the government had to do something.

There is a recent call for more strategic courses, and masters, from the HEA which closes on the 18th of April, but of course those graduates won't hit the market for a few years.

So I would say its better to do something, rather than sit on your hands, navel-gazing.

I think where the real issue is, is getting the message to school leavers that there are more jobs than graduates in the ICT field. Of course you then have the whole Dublin bias where the majority of such jobs are.

slovakchick

Tks, what exactly closes on the 18th April? Will they be extending springboard offers or something?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

I suppose you really have to ask how a graduate with tour years of a Level 8 compares to a Springboard graduate. However, the government had to do something.

There is a recent call for more strategic courses, and masters, from the HEA which closes on the 18th of April, but of course those graduates won't hit the market for a few years.

So I would say its better to do something, rather than sit on your hands, navel-gazing.

I think where the real issue is, is getting the message to school leavers that there are more jobs than graduates in the ICT field. Of course you then have the whole Dublin bias where the majority of such jobs are.

Annasopra

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

I honestly don't know what they are for external examiner, the Finance people look after that (not trying to avoid the answer, I genuinely sign the piece of paper and that's as far as it goes in terms of payment from my side).

Do you not have departmental budgets that you have to meet?

gizmo555

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

However, the covert (or overt) recording of staff, without their explicit permission/consent is technically illegal.

You're mistaken there. See this piece from the Indo by TJ McIntyre, a solicitor and lecturer in law at UCD:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/oliver-connolly-is-wrong-sgt-mccabe-broke-no-laws-with-his-secret-recording-30073914.html

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

I know every institution has a policy on such activities and as long as everyone adheres to what is acceptable and legal, then there should be no problems.

Since it is legal, that begs the question is the Institute entitled to prohibit it? Certainly, Sgt Maurice McCabe would have been screwed if he hadn't covertly recorded his conversation with his colleagues.

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

slovakchick wrote: »

Tks, what exactly closes on the 18th April? Will they be extending springboard offers or something?

A HEA call for more places in ICT courses or new courses in ICT. Nothing to do with Springboard, a totally different strand in the strategy.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Do you not have departmental budgets that you have to meet?

Operational budgets, for equipment and operational costs, yes. Staff costs are outside of my remit.

gizmo555 wrote: »

You're mistaken there. See this piece from the Indo by TJ McIntyre, a solicitor and lecturer in law at UCD:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/oliver-connolly-is-wrong-sgt-mccabe-broke-no-laws-with-his-secret-recording-30073914.html



Since it is legal, that begs the question is the Institute entitled to prohibit it? Certainly, Sgt Maurice McCabe would have been screwed if he hadn't covertly recorded his conversation with his colleagues.

I think you'll find I'm not mistaken.

PREG1967

i believe is is only illegal to make a recording of another if you are a party to the conversation, I'm not sure you'd be able to say you were a participant of the conversation if you were being taught/lectured in a class

funkey_monkey

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103074577&postcount=65

Hi, great questions and replies so far.
I'm sure there might be some others in the same boat as myself, so hopefully it is not bad manners to push this question again.
(Or you can reply via PM )

Thanks.

gizmo555

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

I think you'll find I'm not mistaken.

I think I'll find you are.

Or could you clarify what makes the recording of Institute staff without their prior knowledge or consent "technically illegal" and why TJ McIntyre, a solicitor, law lecturer, and specialist in privacy and data protection law stated in the article I linked to that:

The starting point is that Irish law generally requires only "single party consent" for the recording of conversations – whether on the phone or in person.

Unlike some other countries, where legislation expressly requires that all parties should consent to a recording, in Ireland any one party can record the conversation. Other parties need not agree – or even be informed.

Esel

gizmo555 wrote: »

I think I'll find you are.

Or could you clarify what makes the recording of Institute staff without their prior knowledge or consent "technically illegal" and why TJ McIntyre, a solicitor, law lecturer, and specialist in privacy and data protection law stated in the article I linked to that:

The starting point is that Irish law generally requires only "single party consent" for the recording of conversations – whether on the phone or in person.

Unlike some other countries, where legislation expressly requires that all parties should consent to a recording, in Ireland any one party can record the conversation. Other parties need not agree – or even be informed.

Would you consider a lecture to be a conversation?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

YiddoOConnell wrote: »

I am 28 but will turn 29 in September, previously done a 1 year computer systems course and enjoyed it but did eclipse in programming and I found it difficult to get my head around but I just like to know for higher certificate level 6 courses of information technology support what is the programming like and what programme do ye use? What course would you recommend and where for the best college for someone like me who likes hardware etc..thanks

YiddoOConnell wrote: »

Its called higher certificate in information technology support level 6 in the IT Tralee..not sure how to send a link via the phone app and currently getting my computer repaired but if you type it into Google it should come up.

Ok, I saw it. Yes, there is a bit of programming in it, client side, server side and web development. So if you don't like programming, then maybe it's not for you. Having said that, most IT/Computer Science courses have some elements of programming.

There's no "best college", but I would suggest you have a look at computer science (as opposed to IT) type courses. They would have a more hardware slant.

funkey_monkey wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103074577&postcount=65

Hi, great questions and replies so far.
I'm sure there might be some others in the same boat as myself, so hopefully it is not bad manners to push this question again.
(Or you can reply via PM )

Thanks.

Aside from what we have already mentioned, the only other thing I can think of is an updated post-grad or higher diploma to get you the key skills that employers are looking for. Perhaps more specialised than your MSc in Computer Science - maybe data analytics or something that is computer related, but not computer science.

So essentially, a post-grad in a specialist area.

gizmo555

Esel wrote: »

Would you consider a lecture to be a conversation?

Yes.

slovakchick

A lecture is usually a large group of students listening to a lecturer and taking notes, while a conversation is a smaller discussion.

gizmo555 wrote: »

Yes.

soups05

I disagree, I am currently in DkIT studying system admin in IT and I find that most lecturers try to engage the students and make a class interactive. They hate to see students just blankly writing stuff down and would far rather discuss things and ask for questions or see if students can some up with examples of their own.

That being said most lectures are around 40/50 students whereas business can have up to 300 students.

HoD if I may ask, as a mature student (45) currently nearing the end of second year. Is there any advantage in the long term to do the fourth year (honours) degree or is it just more practical to try to enter the workforce after third year?

riffmongous

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

There is an element of prestige, that is without question, but not necessarily for senior management. I have been involved with the IDA in bringing employers into Ireland, particularly in the technology area, and one of the first things they ask is whether there is a university present. Cue discussion involving "well, it's an institute of technology, but it's not that much different from a university/so why isn't it a university". There is also an international element to it - outside of the Anglo-Saxon sphere of influence, the term Institute or Technology does not carry much weight (despite my efforts, on more than one occasion, to point to Massachusetts institute of technology. And no, I do not have delusions of grandeur, it's merely to make a point in terms of the naming of the institute. I am not for a moment comparing any IoT in Ireland to MIT).

There are, of course, many, many other factors in the naming, but those two above are key, in my mind.

Nice thread. I just wanted to say I am a bit surprised on this point, 'technological' universities are quite common and we'll known in most of Europe, TUs Delft, Munich, Vienna, Berlin, ETH Zurich etc

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

soups05 wrote: »

HoD if I may ask, as a mature student (45) currently nearing the end of second year. Is there any advantage in the long term to do the fourth year (honours) degree or is it just more practical to try to enter the workforce after third year?

Again, switching between my academia an industry hats, I can say that the vast majority of employers want a Level 8 honours degree. Only there last week I had this conversation between a manager in a well known software company and a student who asked that exact question. The manager's attitude was that while companies generally don't get too hung up on Level 7 vs. Level 8, in his experience, that company did not hire anyone with a Level 7 qualification and that his own personal opinion was that a Level 8, or in his words, that extra year, makes quite a difference.

Now, having said that, I would wager that a mature student, with significant relevant industry experience on a Level 7 would in fact have a better chance that a fresh graduate with a Level 8, mainly because a lot of what these tech companies look for is "fit" - how the person fits into an organisation. The technical tests at the interview stage will weed out the less technically competent, so despite what I said above, I actually believe you may be in a good position with the Level 7.

riffmongous wrote: »

Nice thread. I just wanted to say I am a bit surprised on this point, 'technological' universities are quite common and we'll known in most of Europe, TUs Delft, Munich, Vienna, Berlin, ETH Zurich etc

I think you may have misunderstood what I said - I said that the term "Institute of Technology" was misunderstood, not technological university.

riffmongous

Ah, you wrote "institute 'or' technology", but I guess it was just a spelling error, nevermind so

prosaic

Have you a view on the ever increasing rate of developments in technology and how it becomes harder to maintain a grasp of all aspects as things accelerate? 30 years ago, it there might have been a few key areas but now, it's a vast field. Is it just a case of focusing on a specialisation and not worrying about the big picture? Will IT fragment into many disciplines at degree level?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

riffmongous wrote: »

Ah, you wrote "institute 'or' technology", but I guess it was just a spelling error, nevermind so

Ooops, sorry. I see that now.

prosaic wrote: »

Have you a view on the ever increasing rate of developments in technology and how it becomes harder to maintain a grasp of all aspects as things accelerate? 30 years ago, it there might have been a few key areas but now, it's a vast field. Is it just a case of focusing on a specialisation and not worrying about the big picture? Will IT fragment into many disciplines at degree level?

This old chestnut comes up all the time. So here's my pre-canned answer to it. Take a look at your Android or Apple phone - they are based on the same architecture that the likes of John VonNeumann and Alan Turing developed in the 1940's (the VonNeumann architecture and the stored program concept).

So while the application of these technologies has changed considerably, thanks in part to Moore's Law, the fundamentals are still the same. If you compare, say, an iPhone to a mainframe, fundamentally, they are quite the same, just on a different scale.

I think we are already experiencing the fragmentation, but there is still one underlying, unifying principle - digital technology. Whether it is networking, programming, databases, hardware, cloud, whatever, they are all essentially extensions of core concepts. It's back to one of my previous answers - can third level institutions be all things to all people? Probably not. But can such institutions educate to common standards, yes indeed they can. There is room for some specialisation, but not necessarily for esoteric, niche courses.

Buford T Justice

As a mature student who's finishing up their second year currently, I'm struggling to think of an idea for my 3rd year project.

I really don't want to go down the route of another stand alone website, or an inventory system or some sort of mundane safe idea that sticks rigidly to he technologies that are taught in the college..

I have experience in development and I am certainly aiming for a distinction at the end of all of this. I'm quite happy to integrate some sort of internet of things-esque devices like a Raspberry PI or Arduino or something else to build a project that's, if not cool then moderately interesting.

Without this sounding like the obvious do my homework for me question, and to try to gather some sort of inspiration what projects have you seen that have really impressed you or have really stood out over the last number of years, or indeed what would you like to see?

YiddoOConnell

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote:

Ok, I saw it. Yes, there is a bit of programming in it, client side, server side and web development. So if you don't like programming, then maybe it's not for you. Having said that, most IT/Computer Science courses have some elements of programming.

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote:

There's no "best college", but I would suggest you have a look at computer science (as opposed to IT) type courses. They would have a more hardware slant.

Great, thanks for getting back to me. I don't mind programming really, just that I found eclipse difficult at the start, what is the name of the programme ye in the institutes around Ireland? Ya but there's quite a lot of maths but what kind of maths would they be?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

Buford T Justice wrote: »

As a mature student who's finishing up their second year currently, I'm struggling to think of an idea for my 3rd year project.

I really don't want to go down the route of another stand alone website, or an inventory system or some sort of mundane safe idea that sticks rigidly to he technologies that are taught in the college..

I have experience in development and I am certainly aiming for a distinction at the end of all of this. I'm quite happy to integrate some sort of internet of things-esque devices like a Raspberry PI or Arduino or something else to build a project that's, if not cool then moderately interesting.

Without this sounding like the obvious do my homework for me question, and to try to gather some sort of inspiration what projects have you seen that have really impressed you or have really stood out over the last number of years, or indeed what would you like to see?

Yes, I have a strong aversion to such projects as online shopping, or job recruitment websites.

I am a big fan of those types of devices, such as the Raspberry Pi. One particular project that stands out is a joint project with an electronic engineering student. The engineering student was developing a control system for a greenhouse - water, temperature control, etc. The computer science student's project was to hook up a Raspberry Pi to the controller (the name of which escapes me right now) and develop a web interface, via a web app, so the greenhouse could be monitored and controlled via a mobile phone (i.e. anywhere there was an internet connection).

Another was a "thin-client" classroom for, ironically, an institute of technology. The premise was that a range of courses, such as programming and databases, do not actually need Windows PCs, as the software (e.g. Netbeans, Oracle SQL Developer) could run on the server, but be displayed on the thin-client, which in this case, was a number of Raspberry Pi's.

Others include a "voting" system for a classroom. Again the premise being that pretty much every student attending a lecture at third level (you know, the conversational type) has a connected device. So the lecturer throws up a multi-choice question on the screen, everyone whips our their phone/tablet/laptop and votes and discussion ensues. It was a web app, that had a framework that ensured not matter what device the end-user was using, it displayed appropriately. It also included a management console for the lecturers to create questions and gather participation data (with a nod towards data protection laws, of course).

So the advice I always give is look to your personal experience - in class, at home, where you worked previously. Is there something that you can automated. Make life easier for people? That's where you get inspiration.

YiddoOConnell wrote: »

Great, thanks for getting back to me. I don't mind programming really, just that I found eclipse difficult at the start, what is the name of the programme ye in the institutes around Ireland? Ya but there's quite a lot of maths but what kind of maths would they be?

There's no one standard across institutes of technology. I should just point out that Eclipse is just the development environment, there are many others you can use, such as Netbeans. Java is one of the more popular languages, especially for learning as it instills good habits. Python is becoming increasingly popular, but I have my reservations about it for new programmers as they can develop bad habits.

The maths, again, varies by course. ICT-type courses typically have a lighter maths load than computer engineering/computer science courses.

Samsgirl

What do you think about the plans to merge WIT & Carlow IT?
Do you think it will happen? Would you see it as a good/bad thing for either of them?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

Samsgirl wrote: »

What do you think about the plans to merge WIT & Carlow IT?
Do you think it will happen? Would you see it as a good/bad thing for either of them?

I don't think it's as simple a case as WIT and Carlow merging, it has to be viewed through the prism of the drive towards technological universities throughout the sector for all institute's of technology. There are many other mergers mooted, but in what guise these mergers will occur is still open to debate.

I think in general, there are benefits to be gained from attaining TU status (there are a number of criteria that must be met). In particular, the reduction in the duplication of resources is always to be welcomed. However, there are many challenges that need to be overcome. It will happen, just in what guise and when are really the questions to be asked. I think the loss of autonomy and the loss of identity are big issues for any institution.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Many thanks to our IT Head of Department for an interesting and informative AMA. I think some people got very useful info out of it

Thanks for the questions too folks!