Waterford GAA Discussion Thread - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

PTH2009

Mulbert wrote: »

We have a great chance to win Munster now. Fair play to Cork but I'd prefer them to Tipp in Thurles. Plus their style can be looked at now.

I'd we play that defensive style they could kill us with long range points. They destroyed us in league

Mulbert

PTH2009 wrote:

I'd we play that defensive style they could kill us with long range points. They destroyed us in league

Forget about the league, cork played well that day but that game will have no relevance to the forthcoming. And Tipp are still in the championship.

Deise_2012

I was told that Darragh Fives and Maurice picked up injuries yesterday? Anyone at the game see it?

PTH2009

Deise_2012 wrote: »

I was told that Darragh Fives and Maurice picked up injuries yesterday? Anyone at the game see it?

jayus that lad just cant catch a break. hopefully there not serious injuries, we need everyone fit for the 18th June

will the 18th June join the ranks of the great Waterford vs Cork games ???

god id love another chance at a munster final

robopaddy2

danganabu wrote: »

robopaddy2 wrote: »

After seeing what happened Tipp in the league final, they're not all their cracked up to be. I wouldn't write Cork off at all.

JesusRef wrote: »

Me either - and getting to play a final in the new Pairc is huge for Cork

Ye seem to be ignoring the fact that the current Cork team is an absolute shambles and their style of hurling is tailor made for Tipp.

Tipp fans have a habit of not being able to see other teams capabilities through shade of their blue and gold tinted glasses

conditioned games

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Tipp fans have a habit of not being able to see other teams capabilities through shade of their blue and gold tinted glasses

Nice, your only contribution is to have a dig at a Tipp supporter.

Cork half forwards were gifted far too much space to run the Tipp backs ragged. We'll cut off that supply by dropping our half forwards out to midfield and midfield back to help the defense.

Hope McGrath doesn't overdue it by the one and two man full forward line. They'll still need a threat up front if they're going to go on and win it.

robopaddy2

conditioned games wrote: »

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Tipp fans have a habit of not being able to see other teams capabilities through shade of their  blue and gold tinted glasses

Nice, your only contribution is to have a dig at a Tipp supporter.

Cork half forwards were gifted far too much space to run the Tipp backs ragged. We'll cut off that supply by dropping our half forwards out to midfield and midfield back to help the defense.

Hope McGrath doesn't overdue it by the one and two man full forward line. They'll still need a threat up front if they're going to go on and win it.

Arrogance deserves to be pulled up on. To write off Cork and say they were a shambles shows what this poster knew. They showed huge signs of improvement in the league. And while the end result was a bit of a surprise, the performance certainly wasn't for me.
There won't be much in the semi as there rarely is in Cork v Waterford. Tipps weaknesses in defence were definitely exposed today, and we have seen today that Cork have quality forwards and are not as reliant on Horgan and Harnedy as people were saying. I do think that element of surprise will be gone the next day and we'll be prepared better than Tipp were. We will run a tighter defensive ship than Tipp did today. Ineresting to see if we will be a bit more conventional this year. McGrath has put all his eggs into the championship basket, so the pressure is on. And all his talk about how we are 2 or 3 years behind Tipp, well Tipp are not as good as everyone has been making them out to be, so where does that leave us now? Time for excuses is over.

HillFarmer

PTH2009 wrote: »

Mulbert wrote: »

We have a great chance to win Munster now. Fair play to Cork but I'd prefer them to Tipp in Thurles. Plus their style can be looked at now.

I'd we play that defensive style they could kill us with long range points. They destroyed us in league

Couldn't dis agree more. Cork would find it much harder IMO to beat us if we play an orthodox Mcgrath style.
I think we now have a great chance of being back in a munster final.

danganabu

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Tipp fans have a habit of not being able to see other teams capabilities through shade of their blue and gold tinted glasses

Hands up I got it completely wrong and underestimated Cork, we were beaten all over the field, had no plan b and the final scoreline flattered us.

All that said how anyone can claim that someone predicting that the 2/5 favs would win was merely bias and that somehow my comment could be seen as representative of ''Tipp fans'' is beyond me.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Was anyone at the Offaly game? How did we set up?

JesusRef

danganabu wrote: »

Hands up I got it completely wrong and underestimated Cork, we were beaten all over the field, had no plan b and the final scoreline flattered us.

All that said how anyone can claim that someone predicting that the 2/5 favs would win was merely bias and that somehow my comment could be seen as representative of ''Tipp fans'' is beyond me.

Firstly huge credit to Cork on the pitch and on the line, they were brave and went for it and it is something i would love to see waterford doing more, hopefully we have seen the end of the 7th defnder..... the old ways are best only way to stop a callanan is to stop the ball going in.

What are your feelings or knowledge of what is going on with Tipp?
To me it doesnt add up that Cork, with so many debutants and old players with brittle confidence from years of underachievement could be this good this fast.

No pressure was apploed to Cork at all, Ellis and Coleman did as they pleased all day, the Mahers have shown they are great players but not great defenders, I think Ronan will now become targetted for his lack of pace and aggession in the centre. With Cathal Barret out Tipps backs are now in trouble.
What summed tipp up for the me was the woeful half hearted way the two backs went for the ball for the 2nd goal (an aimless enough deliver in), they didnt get anywhere near the ball or man - this was when the game was there to be won!
It looked like every tipp defnder wanted to be the free man yesterday

danganabu

JesusRef wrote: »

What are your feelings or knowledge of what is going on with Tipp?
To me it doesnt add up that Cork, with so many debutants and old players with brittle confidence from years of underachievement could be this good this fast.

No pressure was apploed to Cork at all, Ellis and Coleman did as they pleased all day, the Mahers have shown they are great players but not great defenders, I think Ronan will now become targetted for his lack of pace and aggession in the centre. With Cathal Barret out Tipps backs are now in trouble.
What summed tipp up for the me was the woeful half hearted way the two backs went for the ball for the 2nd goal (an aimless enough deliver in), they didnt get anywhere near the ball or man - this was when the game was there to be won!
It looked like every tipp defnder wanted to be the free man yesterday

Agree with your summation and the lack of pace in all of the half back line is frightening. Teams have coped it and are no longer raining ball down on top of them like last year, Tipp need to change their game plan to counter act that, with that in mind it might be a blessing that Galway and now Cork have highlighted the issue, Brain Cody and Derek McGrath probably arent best pleased as Tipp may well have being give a heads up so early in the year that there is actually time to remedy it.

Long road back though and to me they look tired both mentally and physically which is very worrying and surprising given their age profile.

mountgomery burns

I see 8 Cork players made the GAAs team of the week. 4 defenders. I know there was very little hurling on in fairness so it'll largely concentrate on that match, but while I thought Coleman was excellent as a caveat McCormack who never scores got 0-3.

Worse still, Ellis hurled a decent amount of ball but he was picked off for 6 points. It was a great game to watch and super win for Cork and I do not doubt that, especially with our injury concerns in the backs, we are going to see them push us all the way.

But I do think just because a lot of people enjoyed the game that they are unable to critically assess the weak points in Corks display. Ultimately, it was an incredibly loose game. Corks half back line were too dominant aerially, I would think we'd be far more competitive there and hopefully we'll make it harder for them to pick out passes at their ease.

robopaddy2

danganabu wrote: »

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Tipp fans have a habit of not being able to see other teams capabilities through shade of their  blue and gold tinted glasses

Hands up I got it completely wrong and underestimated Cork, we were beaten all over the field, had no plan b and the final scoreline flattered us.

All that said how anyone can claim that someone predicting that the 2/5 favs would win was merely bias and that somehow my comment could be seen as representative of ''Tipp fans'' is beyond me.

Fair enough. I just thought Cork were being written off way too easy before the game and I genuinely felt they could cause Tipp problems. Apologies for hitting you with the 'I told you so's', I guess I misread the intentions of your post.
Tipp will definitely be there or thereabouts yet. This defeat and the defeat to Galway will be damaging though and Michael Ryan has got to turn it around, make changes and get the confidence back up. During the league it looked like they were going to be unstoppable this year but it all imploded badly against Galway, I don't think people saw it coming. The expectation of doing back to back was starting to weigh heavily on the players I think, and maybe as a unit they peaked last year. But like I say, still plenty time for Michael Ryan to freshen things up and turn it around.

blueflame

Now that the dust has settled on a great but very open game, (reminded me a lot of our shoot outs with Cork of years gone by) lots of questions lie ahead for the coming championship and particularly for Waterford.

1. Can Cork lift their game to this height again, particularly under the weight of expectation that will surround them? It was interesting that there was very little said after the game of the usual mantra of "we know we will have to be better again the next day"

2. Have we learned from our league defeat to Cork where we left their half back line totally dominate as they did last Sunday. In Walsh Park they literally won everything in that line in the air and on the ground. I know it was a totally different scenario, but will we have learned?

3. How do we deal with the pace in eh Cork forwards, have we got the players with pace in them backs to handle them, if not what are the alternatives?

4. Should our game plan be to try and stifle them or should we be willing to take them on in a shout out?


I have my own views, on this believing that the best form of defence against Cork is to attack and try and tie they back in their own half, not allowing them to break out and create momentum and overlaps that will suit their running game. This will also help to limit the amount of quality ball going into a very dangerous forward line.

I think that the Cork defence is still suspect and if we can break their half forward line and leave our full forwards inside ( a minimum of two at all times) i believe there are goals to be gotten. It was noticeable last week that come the last 10 minutes of the game Tipp had retreated out the field and carried little or no threat inside, while if you look at Corks winning goal they had left 2 on 2 inside and this pressure on teh Tiopp back line led to a bad mistake that coughed up a quite simple goal. Could not help but think we would not have scored that goal because we like Tipp would have been way out the field. You must be brave in championship.

Now that Tipp are in the backdoor, especially at such an early stage of the competition, it is a must that if Waterford are to be serious contenders for the AI this year we simply must beat Cork because that will put us in a Munster Final with a guarantee of an AI quarter or semi to come leaving Qualifiers to be contended between Tipp, Cork, Clare/Limerick, Galway/Dublin, Kilkenny/Wexford with Home/Away draws - what a minefield.

From a Tipp perspective, I have to say while I was surprised at losing to Cork, i was not amazed. People have constantly been writing off Cork even though they had won two Munster Championships and contested an All Ireland final not so long ago, and still had the nucleus of those panels. Much focus was made of Cork not winning underage , but any Cork minor or U21 team I have seen over the last number of years no matter how poor generally have had at least 2/3 real quality players and that is all you can expect from the majority of minor sides.

I also felt that Tipp were somewhat overrated - i still think pound for pound they are probably the best panel/team in the country but only just so and are capable of been beaten by several other counties on any given day. Last year Cork played a game that was totally alien to them and paid a very hefty price and Cork were in a bad place at the time. Quite honestly our tactics gave them one of the softest Munster Final victories they will ever get (again) - by the time KK faced them in the AI final, KK were knackered and you cannot underestimate the effect of losing Michael Fenelly in teh semi had on KK - when the game is in the melting pot that is when Fennelly comes to the fore he is a real leader that does the dirty work and KK were badly lacking this last year in the final. I still think Tipp will have a huge say in this years Championship and may well yet retain their crown, but the air of invincibility is gone and the wrong draw could see them in difficulty very early.

A very very interesting Championship lies ahead but "fortune favours the brave" -

HangBlaa

Interesting the narrative that cork went all out, and attacked, but in reality they played very similar to how waterford play.     I have since watch it on TV and it does not do justice to the reality as I was on Thurles.


Mark Ellis in the second half played as a very deep lying centre back, (but probably didnt sweep as deep as TdeB does) and allowed a midfielder to pick up his man a lot of the time.   This is very much the role Brian Hogan and the other no.6's  played in the 4 in a row KK team.


For the majority of the second half cork had no more that 3 but mostly two forwards operating inside the 55 yards from goal, with the others are per waterford, working hard further out the field fighting for ball, hunting in packs. 


You point to corks second goal & the two on two... yes, but at the time the ball was played in, those two cork forwards were the only two within 50 yards of goal.   The diffence here was Tipp did not leave the other corner back with his colleagues to 'mind to house'.     It was ridiculous defending that, both Tipp players then went to the same ball...


 However, the key diffence to the media not talking about sweepers and systems however, is two-fold.    Firstly, Cork won.    Secondly, they quality of ball they delvered to the sparce inside line was superb, and Tipp went one for one, not allowing a spare man drop deep, extremely naive, and hte result was the ridiculous high score.      

When teams play it in aimlessly and the opposition have a spare man pick up the bad ball, it looks horrific.     Tipps apporach was the perfect storm for the way cork set up.     Also, Cahalane & John McGrath managed to get into some great space inside all day, and the ball going to them was very poor... very un-tipp like.


I think Waterford will beat Cork, as we have far more pace than Tipp and will not allow the same quality of ball to the inside line.


Tipp are far form gone.... Mickey Cahill, Bonnar Maher and to a lesser extent, Jason Forde will improve them substanially....      and as said above, the qualifoers will be brutal...    June 18th is a must win.

Henno30

HangBlaa wrote: »

Interesting the narrative that cork went all out, and attacked, but in reality they played very similar to how waterford play.     I have since watch it on TV and it does not do justice to the reality as I was on Thurles.

It must have been very, very different in Thurles then because that did not look like any Waterford performance I've seen in recent years.

blueflame

I have no problem with deep lying center backs and midfielders covering in, and half forwards dropping deep as you say Cork did, KK won a number of All Irelands playing with this style but the major difference is having at least two forwards in the inside line almost all of the time.

By having at least two forwards in the full forward line, if the opposition do not want to create one on one situations they must keep a minimum of three backs in there - even then with clever movement the two man full forward line can still engineer one on one situations and cause difficulty for the spare man, in deciding who or where to cover. If there is only one man inside it is simple to double team them.

Also by keeping two men close to goal you are more likely going to keep the full back line pegged in - if you then withdraw your half forward line, it leaves the opposition half backs with the choice of having to sit marking no one or going out the field thus leaving acres of space in front of the full forward line to be exploited. None of these are an ideal situation.

Contrast that with what we do, just leaving one man inside on his own or in many cases we all come out the field and you are left with :

a) one man being marked by at least two defenders and the goal keeper under no pressure to bomb ball down on top of us as Anthony Nash did last Sunday to Tipp in the later stages of the game.

b) no need to worry about leaving space in front of the full back line because all the space is behind them and is unoccupied

c) To much congestion and no space around the midfield area resulting in potential turnover ball.

d) no viable target inside resulting in too many pot shots, balls to no one, over carrying and getting caught in possession, or getting hooked or blocked while trying to decide what best to do.

My problem is not with playing a two man inside forward line it is with playing a one man or worse still a non-existent inside forward line. For me against Cork we simply must play an inside forward line of the two Bennett's and Patrick Curran. I believe their experience of playing together for so many years and their awareness of each other, combined with their intelligence, movement and hurling ability will carry a massive scoring threat and result in Cork half backs having to be very aware about leaving space behind them, leading to better possession opportunities of us out the field.

Interested to hear other opinions.

Horseboxhead

For all the nice things being said about Sundays game , the only important thing from a Waterford point of view is we now know who we are playing in the semi final of the munster championship. I am happy enough with the result, though we would have beaten tipp as probably would Clare have last sunday, as they were as Loose a hurling Tipp side as i've seen in the last 7/8 years, all that ability won't win you anything unless like last year, it was married to application, effort , and work, this however is just History repeating itself, and Tipperary , who were going to win everything , have won their All Ireland last year and fair play to them, and before anyone reminds me the year is not over, i know what time of the year it is, but Sunday was no blip, the league final was no blip, it was arrogance personified, and paid the price, they'll blow away teams in the qualifiers, but won't pass any serious tests this year.
We'll beat Cork , as they are a nice hurling side, like Tipp , have one or two serious hurlers , but the one or two i'm talking about are still in the potential stage, it will be a great day because Cork as is their want would never consider a waterford side not there for the taking, and also because we will attack the centre of their defence by running at them, work like dogs , and everytime a nice Cork forward wins a ball he'll be clattered, just the way it is, plus if brick is around the half forward line no way Ellis is sauntering out the middle Quaterbacking the way he did sunday, also i notice the anti sweeper brigade is now in full flow, like Waterford how could ye, spoiling the beautiful game with ye're pragmatism, not a massive fan of it myself, but it is the best way to play this cork side, yeah we'll win, big test will be against Clare who will piss on Limerick.

top of the river

Just wondering Horseboxhead what serious test you think this Waterford team has passed in championship hurling that has you so confident that they'll beat Cork. Strange to me that you compare this Cork team to Tipp as nice hurlers yet Waterford have never even got close to beating tipp, yet you say Waterford will beat Cork is that confidence or arrogance

Horseboxhead

its an opinion, based on reasons given.

top of the river

Horseboxhead wrote: »

its an opinion, based on reasons given.

Of course it's just an opinion when you say your team will win but if a tipp person is of the opinion that their team will win it's arrogance. I have to say your post had a fair smack of arrogance to it even though you also accused cork of being arrogant in the middle of it. Anyway as you so good on giving your opinion what serious test has this Waterford team passed in championship hurling

mountgomery burns

top of the river wrote: »

Of course it's just an opinion when you say your team will win but if a tipp person is of the opinion that their team will win it's arrogance. I have to say your post had a fair smack of arrogance to it even though you also accused cork of being arrogant in the middle of it. Anyway as you so good on giving your opinion what serious test has this Waterford team passed in championship hurling

Bit of a hollow question. They've made the last 4 two years in a row and pushed Kilkenny all the way twice last year.

I assume beating Tipp on Sunday would be an example of Cork overcoming a serious championship test, but would you still see it that way if Cork lose the Munster semi final and an all ireland quarter final? And say Waterford beat Cork, and bow out in an all ireland semi final again having not beaten either Tipp or Kilkenny, will you be saying the same thing next year about Waterford again?

top of the river

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Bit of a hollow question. They've made the last 4 two years in a row and pushed Kilkenny all the way twice last year.

I assume beating Tipp on Sunday would be an example of Cork overcoming a serious championship test, but would you still see it that way if Cork lose the Munster semi final and an all ireland quarter final? And say Waterford beat Cork, and bow out in an all ireland semi final again having not beaten either Tipp or Kilkenny, will you be saying the same thing next year about Waterford again?

I should probably have made it clearer but I mean knockout hurling I'm not belittling the provincials but the safety net of the back door is always there i think Waterford have to beat tipp Kilkenny or galway in one of these games to say they overcame a serious championship test it would say the same for cork I think tipp made them look a lot better than they actually are last sunday too many tipp players playing way below for at the moment but where the previous poster got the notion that the defeat and league final defeat was arrogance personified is beyond me. Anyway best of luck against cork 50 50 game imo

Horseboxhead

best of luck buddy trying to make this something its not, Cork are Cocky, its not a secret, i admire it , they are also a proper hurling county, and the championship is all the better for a strong Cork side, as they also bring a wonderful sense of colour and fun to any day, so it should be a great day, hopefully it will be a cracker , and i think we[Waterford] will win, that's it , i would not be as certain as the Tipp lads last friday as they faced Cork, but i'd be very disappointed if we did not, but i also would not base my decision on Cork recent Championship victories v ?????, or Waterford getting beaten in a replay against a way better Kilkenny side than anything that was on display last Sunday, just man for man we're better , more experienced, and will be hungrier than tipp, thats it.

Niallers87

Hey lads; i believe waterford played clare behind closed doors in thurles this evening; does anyone have any info on how it went?

top of the river

Horseboxhead wrote: »

best of luck buddy trying to make this something its not, Cork are Cocky, its not a secret, i admire it , they are also a proper hurling county, and the championship is all the better for a strong Cork side, as they also bring a wonderful sense of colour and fun to any day, so it should be a great day, hopefully it will be a cracker , and i think we[Waterford] will win, that's it , i would not be as certain as the Tipp lads last friday as they faced Cork, but i'd be very disappointed if we did not, but i also would not base my decision on Cork recent Championship victories v ?????, or Waterford getting beaten in a replay against a way better Kilkenny side than anything that was on display last Sunday, just man for man we're better , more experienced, and will be hungrier than tipp, thats it.

You should really take off those blinkers when it comes to tipp you seem to have one view of them and it ain't going to change maybe its all the beatings they gave ye I don't know but I would just love to know how you think tipp losing there last two matches is arrogance personified is it because you heard a few tipp lads last Friday saying they were going to win

phobia2011

Where is the cork match being played?

PTH2009

phobia2011 wrote: »

Where is the cork match being played?

Thurles 18th June 4pm



Some cork fans getting a little bit ahead of themselves

The White Feather

PTH2009 wrote: »

Thurles 18th June 4pm



Some cork fans getting a little bit ahead of themselves

Trust me no one in Cork is looking past Waterford.

Got a bit of a shock when I saw that tweet at first! Bear in mind that twitter is not the official Páirc Uí Chaoimh twitter.

That was has a 1 on the end. The real one is @PaircUiCha0imh