Real life v.s. Online personality

thepikminman

Glenster wrote: »

Just don't talk about that specific thing.

Talk about football or something.

But I don't care about the stuff they talk about, and I find it hard to fake it, they pick up on the fact that I don't give a ****.

Triceratops Ballet

thepikminman wrote:

CAN YOU GUYS TELL ME, IF YOU MET SOMEONE IN REAL LIFE WHO SAID THE STUFF I'M SAYING, WHAT WOULD YOU THINK OF THEM? I THINK I'D BE OSTRACIZED, WHICH I ALREADY AM BUT FOR BEING EXTREMELY SHY AND AWKWARD, NOT FOR SAYING THIS TYPE OF STUFF.

I have met people in real life who say that kind of thing, It's been debated, and we all go on with our lives. Nobody gets ostracised or excluded, because when you debate a complex issue like human interaction everyone at the table has the opportunity to learn something about the people they're sitting with. That's what's good about debate it's not about winning its about the opportunity to open your mind to other people's pov.

However if you go in thinking, my pov is the facts, and is 100% the truth everyone here is lying to themselves and don't allow room for growth you won't grow, you wont get anywhere. What is truth to you today may or may not be truth for you tomorrow or in 5/10 years time.

I can tell you without a doubt that I am the same online and irl. The only place where I tend to be a watered down version of that, as someone else said, is work but not to the extent that work people would find the "real" me unrecognisable

fizzypish

thepikminman wrote: »

HAVE TO CAPITALIZE THIS:

I JUST REALIZED, EVERYTHING I'M SAYING ON HERE NOW I WOULD NEVER SAY TO ANYONE IF REAL LIFE. I'M NOT SAYING BAD THINGS, I'M JUST SHARING MY OPINION, SO WHY CAN'T I DO IT IN REAL LIFE?
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SO I HAVE TO PICK BETWEEN BEING OSTRACIZED FOR BEING A GUY WITH UNCONVENTIONAL OPINIONS OR OSTRACIZED FOR BEING SHY AND AWKWARD? H-HELP??? ANYONE???

In that case you need to talk to a professional. Lifes hard man, for a variety of reasons. This is your reason. Go have a chat with someone. The internet can't help you here. Your only 23 too. A lot of development left in your personality yet. 23 yr old me Vs 28 yr old me are very different people. Good and bad.

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valoren

If anything the idea of being anonymous online exposes just how depraved people really can be.
In a weird way that is both comforting and enlightening.
It allows us to come to terms with the idea that many people are just arseholes, and that is a fact of life.

osarusan

I think the online persona says the kind of stuff the poster wishes they could say offline.

In my case it's often true anyway.

I'd say it's true for a lot of people. We might like to say that what our relative, friend, colleague said was 'a load of bollocks' but we'll temper it into 'well I'm not sure about that, because...' These are people that, in general, we want to get on with. And putting up with a load of nonsense at times is the price you pay for that.

This isn't an issue on an anonymous forum like boards at least, so we can be that bit more cutting, blunt, fewer fools suffered, nonsense more readily dismissed, and so on. The other side of things is that people are free to argue a load of absolute nonsense that they'd never do in real life, because there are no consequences for that either.

So both the shyte talked and the reactions to it spiral upwards.

thepikminman

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I'm surprised you gave this example, because that's an example of something that shows me that most people aren't good people - we seem to love hearing about disasters and people getting raped/murdered on the news. So many people come up and say "oh god, did you hear about that guy who got tortured for 25 years...terrible just terrible..." It really wrecks my head that everyone uses these horrible things for their own amusement.

Yeah there might be some people helping on the news, but they really don't have much of a choice to help, and I'm sure they only started helping after some strong personality decided to help or after the camera man started filming. The amount of times I've seen people just walking past a homeless man having a seizure or a guy freaking out on an acid trip or a guy beating his girlfriend - real experiences I saw when HUNDREDS of people just walked by doing NOTHING. But of course when I decided to help them, then people started to too.

Anyway that might be a little off topic.

Assertiveness training sounds like a good idea, thanks for the suggestion!

And thanks for all you guy's help.

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thepikminman

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Why? Because like I said, people treat me like crap for being nice and nearly all people I hear are focused mainly on shallows things and themselves. That's the truth. I keep making the mistake of assuming that people are good people and think the way I do, but I know they don't.

Maybe you're right though, maybe I am just seeing the worst parts I don't know. I know my way of thinking is gonna leave me by myself, sad, alone, so it's pointless really, whether I'm right or wrong about people. Could be just my area or this ****ty, judgemental country where everyone stares at you, scanning you, as you walk down the street.

With the homeless etc examples, many people actually laughed at them, and they were clearly in a emergency state, but still half of them laughed. And the more people that laugh, the more people that laugh, it's like a chain reaction "hmmm, he laugh so I laugh, they all laughing, I must laugh"...if they were all crying or all helping they'd all be copy whatever the majority are doing.

And the news thing, why do so many people have an interest in it then? When I hear that a woman got raped on the radio it puts me in a bad mood and I think "why TF did they just tell me that?" what's the point of it if not for entertainment?

pilly

thepikminman wrote: »

Yeah, all I can say is I've had my fair share of people treating me like crap solely because I'm a timid guy, and they attack for that reason alone. I always act too nice and polite, and they always treat me the same - like crap. Maybe it's to do with my looks, maybe I'm just unlucky I don't know. But in my life, people are horrible, even my family half the time.

pikman, could you give us an example of an occasion when someone treated you like crap?

Just because it might give us some context of what the situation is.

I genuinely believe that the majority of people don't treat timid people like crap so there must be something else going on here.

Either you're paranoid and people aren't treating you like crap or you're rubbing them up the wrong way.

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Shanotheslayer

I consider myself pretty much the same. Online and Offline. Same type of sense of humor online, no trolling and I say to my friends if I disagree with them etc.

I never found the appeal online to be different and the people I have met online through the forums/games all generally are like myself in that they don't change online/offline.

I find it childish and idotic to say the least.

thepikminman

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Here's a common example of me being treated: My brother is very confident and outspoken, but also admits to looking down on people and is proud of it, and he talks to people like they're dirt (and I used to think he was a bad person because of that, but I'm starting to see why he does it now).

Anyway, we go out sometimes to clubs or whatever and the bouncers and people in the club are so much nicer to him, even though he's horrible to them, I'm really nice to them and they ignore me or talk to me like they're p*ssed off I'm wasting their time, or if I'm talking they walk away mid-sentence or scan the room looking for who else to talk to. He's also very good looking and a doctor and I'm pretty average looking or below average so It could be cause of that (shallow people, or horrible people if its because of me being nice)

I know that people respond badly to shyness, I've tested it out. I now find that people listen to me ALOT more and value what I say when i DONT say thanks, and DONT smile or be polite.

It's like when I do those polite things, they see it as desperation or something. And then when they hear me, the shy shaky awkward guy, having a strong opinion on something, or saying something out of the ordinary, they won't stand for it. I'm sure if I said it confidently they'd be agreeing and trying to impress me, like they do with my dicky brothers.

The staring happens virtually everywhere I go in Ireland, it's a big part of what makes me not enjoy public places. They stare as if I'm doing something suspicious or shouldn't be there. For some reason I feel like I shouldn't be there and like I am doing something wrong, but I don't know why I feel like that, and that's probably what's causing the looks to a degree. And no it's not paranoia, because I went to a funeral in holland and when I got into town and was walking around I straight away thought "wow, this is so much nicer, people aren't staring at me, I feel so much more relaxed". and i was talking to someone from there AFTER that who confirmed my thoughts on that saying "yeah, people in ireland really judge you a lot more, we're more laid back over here".

The news thing, yeah I can understand reporting local murderers or whatever or 9/11 even but please tell me what use is it if not for entertainment to be told about a random girl being raped and tortured in america? And I don't believe "it's just interesting and we should know", we don't need to know, and if people find that interesting that proves my point -that people enjoy hearing about other people's misery.

Cupcake_Crisis

I'm a cranky wagon online and generally in real life too.

thepikminman

pilly wrote: »

pikman, could you give us an example of an occasion when someone treated you like crap?

Just because it might give us some context of what the situation is.

I genuinely believe that the majority of people don't treat timid people like crap so there must be something else going on here.

Either you're paranoid and people aren't treating you like crap or you're rubbing them up the wrong way.

In shops, in clubs, everywhere I see people being so friendly and nice to each other, but when I talk to them they get so impatient and rude. And anything I say they take it the wrong way. And it's all probably because I'm too careful choosing my words, and I doubt myself to them saying "well I didn't mean it that way" or "god I'm kind of rambling here" and they hear me admit that and that causes them to believe it. Alot of people in real life them me I just need to increase my enthusiasm but I thought people were more perceptive than that. They seem to only judge based on your facial expressions and body language, they don't listen to what you're actually saying. So f-ing annoying....

Wibbs

thepikminman wrote: »

They seem to only judge based on your facial expressions and body language, they don't listen to what you're actually saying. So f-ing annoying....

People communicate when face to face as a holistic thing; speech, facial expressions and body language(among other things like external group affiliations, touch, mirroring and the like). This changes on text based communication outlets such as here or other interwebs arenas. It's how the majority of people communicate. Of course like everything some are better at it than others. At one extreme you might find those with "natural" charisma at the other end you might have folks with social awareness difficulties or conditions(e.g. autism spectrum folks).

Obvious shyness can make many people uncomfortable, because we are by nature a social animal and the person isn't following the "script". The script is also subject based. EG if a group are talking about I dunno, what was on telly the previous night and one person apropos of nothing pipes up about, I dunno death in the Middle East, it's like a piano player hitting the wrong note, discordant. Interestingly the charismatic types can usually get away with discordant notes.

This goes double if the person is exhibiting anxiousness or negativity. People pick up on that and tend to mirror it(as part of the social contract), which makes them more uncomfortable. In turn the shy individual picks up and mirrors that discomfort and so on. Awkward for everyone. The shy person also tends to naturally start to avoid such encounters and throws in confirmation bias as an "out" and over time gets less and less good at average conversation and communication. Vicious circle.

Now there can be an underlying condition, but many such shy people I've known tended to miss out an important part of childhood/adolescence where you can make mistakes and learn from them. Much of this social interaction stuff is learned. Society and people are far more accepting of the young making mistakes, not nearly so much with adults.

Either way if this is affecting someone's life in a very real way there is help available.

thepikminman

Wibbs wrote: »

People communicate when face to face as a holistic thing; speech, facial expressions and body language(among other things like external group affiliations, touch, mirroring and the like). This changes on text based communication outlets such as here or other interwebs arenas. It's how the majority of people communicate. Of course like everything some are better at it than others. At one extreme you might find those with "natural" charisma at the other end you might have folks with social awareness difficulties or conditions(e.g. autism spectrum folks).

Obvious shyness can make many people uncomfortable, because we are by nature a social animal and the person isn't following the "script". The script is also subject based. EG if a group are talking about I dunno, what was on telly the previous night and one person apropos of nothing pipes up about, I dunno death in the Middle East, it's like a piano player hitting the wrong note, discordant. Interestingly the charismatic types can usually get away with discordant notes.

This goes double if the person is exhibiting anxiousness or negativity. People pick up on that and tend to mirror it(as part of the social contract), which makes them more uncomfortable. In turn the shy individual picks up and mirrors that discomfort and so on. Awkward for everyone. The shy person also tends to naturally start to avoid such encounters and throws in confirmation bias as an "out" and over time gets less and less good at average conversation and communication. Vicious circle.

Now there can be an underlying condition, but many such shy people I've known tended to miss out an important part of childhood/adolescence where you can make mistakes and learn from them. Much of this social interaction stuff is learned. Society and people are far more accepting of the young making mistakes, not nearly so much with adults.

Either way if this is affecting someone's life in a very real way there is help available.

That's exactly what I think about it. It really is a vicious circle, and the deeper the problem gets, the less you improve, so it seems impossible to have the skills to get out of an exponentially worsening problem. The only way out seems to be a drastic change in one's mindset, maybe going from shy to not giving the slightest f***. Counselling etc doesn't really work for me though, I wish it did.

Wibbs

thepikminman wrote: »

I'm surprised you gave this example, because that's an example of something that shows me that most people aren't good people - we seem to love hearing about disasters and people getting raped/murdered on the news. So many people come up and say "oh god, did you hear about that guy who got tortured for 25 years...terrible just terrible..." It really wrecks my head that everyone uses these horrible things for their own amusement.

It;s not amusement(outside of actual psychopaths), its a coping mechanism. By talking about horrors even joking in the face of horrors(gallows humour) humans can cope with the horrors. Look how quickly society comes up with jokes after public tragedies. In the majority of cases it's not nasty, it's one attempt at collective coping.

thepikminman wrote: »

But I don't care about the stuff they talk about, and I find it hard to fake it, they pick up on the fact that I don't give a ****.

Well since people aren't psychic you must be giving that vibe off. Small talk is often the lubrication of communication and connection. I give two low powered hoots about discussing the weather with some oul wan in the local shop, chances are she doesn't particularly care either, but both of us are signalling we're aware of the social interaction niceties and more, we're considerate of the other person. Actually that's another aspect of excessive shyness that can throw people; it can come across as self centred. All about the shy person, how they feel in a social setting and if they're not happy they can give that vibe off and that's just not socially attractive in someone.

Wibbs

thepikminman wrote: »

maybe going from shy to not giving the slightest f***.

IMH that is one step. The other is realising that it's not all about me and people, most especially strangers, don't particularly care either way, but they will respond to me better and we will all have a better time if I'm not standing around in social setting like an Easter Island statue with constipation.

If I was to boil down how I generally deal with social situations it would be; don't be a dick, don't give a fúck and get over myself. Your milage may vary. I was quite bashful as a young kid. Painfully easy to embarrass actually, but I remember the lightbulb moment when I was 13 and waiting in line for one of those Photo Booth things(passport photo) and I just though fúck it, I'm going to talk to the bloke in front of me. And I did and the world didn't end. Now I made mistakes, dropped some real howlers, but as I say you can when you're a kid, I'd have found it much harder as an adult. Though that said, as an adult I would have more knowledge and control over myself, so hard to say.

pumpkin4life

I'm 80% the same online as in real life.

The only difference: I work in a very left wing/liberal company. If a politics/race/religion topic comes up, I usually just say "I don't really have an opinion" and that's usually enough and I don't get involved. I don't mind an argument, but really I don't want to chance some weird HR/ question sesh with my boss about how much of a bad person I am. It is my livelihood after all.

Otherwise, outside of work, I'm the exact same person as I am here in terms of opinions, the way I act, etc.

ToddyDoody

Is it not time to blur the lines a bit between real life and online? They kindof melt into one at this stage.

e.g. nowadays, posting comments on a message board on the train is real life.

thepikminman

Wibbs wrote: »

It;s not amusement(outside of actual psychopaths), its a coping mechanism. By talking about horrors even joking in the face of horrors(gallows humour) humans can cope with the horrors. Look how quickly society comes up with jokes after public tragedies. In the majority of cases it's not nasty, it's one attempt at collective coping.

Well since people aren't psychic you must be giving that vibe off. Small talk is often the lubrication of communication and connection. I give two low powered hoots about discussing the weather with some oul wan in the local shop, chances are she doesn't particularly care either, but both of us are signalling we're aware of the social interaction niceties and more, we're considerate of the other person. Actually that's another aspect of excessive shyness that can throw people; it can come across as self centred. All about the shy person, how they feel in a social setting and if they're not happy they can give that vibe off and that's just not socially attractive in someone.

I never thought of shyness as being self-centred but that really makes sense. It explains why, even though most people don't respond well to it, some people REALLY get p*ssed off by it, like angry (usually middle-aged women in my experience). It is pretty self-centered now that I think about it.

As for the bolded part, yeah exactly, so we all agree it's all complete BS? I find it hard to do things when me and everyone involved knows that the other person is doing it just because it's typical social behavior. I suppose, like you said, there needs to be some social lubricant, but it is pathetic BS when you think about it, talking about stuff that neither one of you gives a **** about.

Wibbs

thepikminman wrote: »

I never thought of shyness as being self-centred but that really makes sense. It explains why, even though most people don't respond well to it, some people REALLY get p*ssed off by it, like angry (usually middle-aged women in my experience). It is pretty self-centered now that I think about it.

Well going more self involved, more inward it's a natural self protection mechanism that can build up. If your first few encounters are bad it makes sense to go inwards and view the world as hostile and that can increase over time. Kinda like a social panic attack response. It makes no real sense, but makes great internal logic sense, simply because it, even the shy label itself, does protect you to some degree. People are also creatures of and comforted by habit. Even sometimes quite negative habits. I'm sure we all know the guy who goes out with right wagons as a pattern and the woman who goes out with abusive types as a pattern. There may be many reasons for this kinda pattern kicking off in the first place, but it is oddly comforting in its recognisable consistency. And that's why these can be a hard habit to break. Plus all women/men/people are dicks is an easy meme to buy into and these mindsets will seek out the women/men/people that prove their "theory". Confirmation bias. I have all too often found people would rather be proven right than be happy.

As for the bolded part, yeah exactly, so we all agree it's all complete BS? I find it hard to do things when me and everyone involved knows that the other person is doing it just because it's typical social behavior. I suppose, like you said, there needs to be some social lubricant, but it is pathetic BS when you think about it, talking about stuff that neither one of you gives a **** about.

Aye, but that's not so much the point of it. What is happening more is you both are acknowledging the other person, any nervousness they may have and using easy bullshít to make the encounter more pleasant and less full on. The subject, the words themselves mean little enough, but they roughly translate as "hi, I'm a person, so are you, lets talk shíte and pass a pleasant time with the usual "lovely weather we're having" script, until we're both more comfortable with each other and maybe we can take it elsewhere". It can lead to more and often does. Actual friends tend to not use small talk and when they do it morphs into better conversation.

thepikminman

Wibbs wrote: »

Confirmation bias. I have all too often found people would rather be proven right than be happy.

I'm realizing you might be right there. I keep telling myself people are horrible, and seeing the worst in them to prove that, to make myself think "I haven't done anything wrong, I haven't wasted all this time hating people and getting nowhere because it's THEIR problem, not mine". Jesus...thanks for making me aware of that, it really is an eye-opener

I'm exactly the same online as in person. Non confrontational, sarcastic, very chatty and often not on the same thread as everyone else. Doesn't come across so well in text though... gets me into trouble a bit.

I would struggle to believe anyone who says they act exactly the same online as in real life.

Personally, I am a bit more likely to fly off the handle online than I am in real life. Whilst my views that I share with friends and colleagues will always be forthright and strongly held, (a) I know these people personally, and am better able to appreciate the context in which they disagree with me and (b) there are practical consequences to giving someone the :rolleyes: face in real life, and those consequences are pretty immaterial on the internet.

You can never completely 'hide' your personality, so when I'm posting casual observations (like this), or posting cat videos, or commenting on some political belief or TV show, I'll be giving out signals to other users who perceive my personality as it actually is.

But when it comes to arguments, I'm definitely less forgiving of views I object to or which I may see as implausible, than I would be of friends and acquaintances, for the previously stated reasons.

Isn't this the case for everyone? Does everyone really treat the crazy views of User1986 the same way as they treat the views of their colleague, Crazy Debra? I doubt it. You have to make eye contact with Crazy Debra at the vending machine, in the canteen, at the Christmas party. You also know something of her life story and the experiences that have informed her worldview. But when User1986 says he believes in angels and THAT 9/11 was a jewish plot, you just find yourself letting loose a bit easier. Totally different scenarios.

It's not a bad thing. I find these lack of diplomatic constraints rather liberating, so long as it isn't abused.

Junkyard Tom

I don't think I could answer the question objectively.

pilly

thepikminman wrote:

As for the bolded part, yeah exactly, so we all agree it's all complete BS? I find it hard to do things when me and everyone involved knows that the other person is doing it just because it's typical social behavior. I suppose, like you said, there needs to be some social lubricant, but it is pathetic BS when you think about it, talking about stuff that neither one of you gives a **** about.

It really isn't patethic OP it's just a way of building social skills. I have a son who used to be painfully shy until he had to work in a customer facing role and he really struggled.

He asked "what do I talk to people about" and I taught him how to make small talk with people until you actually find out what they're interested in.

He's made some fantastic friends in that job and says he never knew it would be so easy.

I'll be honest, if people are being rude to you its because you're giving off a vibe that says "I don't give a **** about what you're saying".

I think you need to learn a bit of tolerance and live and let live.

Summer wind

I'm the same online as I am offline. There's no reason not to be.

Sciprio

I'm pretty much the same. Not much different from offline to online.