Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

magicbastarder

a continuous white line is usually painted specifically because leaving your lane is unsafe, though?

amcalester

Pinch Flat wrote: »

yeah wouldn't normally look at Australia as a bastion of common sense when it comes to cycling, but crossing on a continuous white line may be one solution. Most motorists do it any way - it's just that they sometimes chose the most dangerous part of the road to do it. We had a fool overtake our group into a completely blind corner on Sunday, the car coming the other way had to stop dead to allow him continue, and he almost side swiped our top 2 riders when trying to get back in.

Driving in the Monaghan countryside yesterday and saw a cyclist coming around a bend towards me and thought to myself, I hope nobody overtakes him now because then we could be in trouble, so I slowed down more than I would normally have when taking that corner and sure enough a car overtook him veering across a single white line onto my side of the road.

That driver probably blamed the cyclist too, forced to overtake him:rolleyes:

CramCycle

If there is a continuous white line, it is typically there for a reason, so crossing it or not is irrelevant, they simply should not be overtaking. If they don't have the patience to wait, then they really should not be driving. They are often there for hidden dips, bumps, blind corners or a variety of reasons, they are not always obvious, so no, it shouldn't be allowed although to my knowledge is provided for when there is an obstruction and can be done safely, ie there is no need to change the law but I certainly would not be encouraging it.

Rmulvany

sy_flembeck wrote: »

Again, approaching Glenealy, another spot I've never had issues with (but I've heard from those who have). The Vectra in question had the passenger window down. Perosnally, I felt it was to listen to my reaction as he immeidately looked over to the left after overtaking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNT4p0G27Eg

Dangerously close overtake on a solid white line.
I wonder would it be worth reporting to the Guards? Wouldn't be hard to make out their reg in the video

blackwhite

CramCycle wrote: »

If there is a continuous white line, it is typically there for a reason, so crossing it or not is irrelevant, they simply should not be overtaking. If they don't have the patience to wait, then they really should not be driving. They are often there for hidden dips, bumps, blind corners or a variety of reasons, they are not always obvious, so no, it shouldn't be allowed although to my knowledge is provided for when there is an obstruction and can be done safely, ie there is no need to change the law but I certainly would not be encouraging it.

It can depend.

We've often instances of road markings in this country where there's a single marking in the road covering traffic travelling in both directions.

If I've come around a bend and there's now a straight section ahead I don't see any real danger in a car crossing lanes to pass me - even if there's a single white line which was intended for traffic travelling the opposite direction

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.2374052,-7.0824651,3a,75y,306.33h,92.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shcDdvbCdQXCzTJlATj1XMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Using an example of a road I cycle quite a bit - heading towards the city is impacted by the solid white line which is intended for traffic headed out towards Ballygunner. Not a long section - but I'm happier to have any cars past and in front of me as quickly as it's safe instead of having them on my tail for longer than needed

mistermaster

CramCycle wrote: »

although to my knowledge is provided for when there is an obstruction and can be done safely, ie there is no need to change the law but I certainly would not be encouraging it.

I believe the law allows for crossing a continuous white line if there’s an obstruction or hazard, if there’s an emergency, or for access (e.g. to a property on the ‘wrong’ side of the line). I don’t think we cyclists want to be regarded as obstructions or hazards, we definitely don’t want to be involved in an emergency, and the access thing isn’t relevant.

I’m thinking of places like that video from Wicklow and that place in Waterford that blackandwhite has just put up. There’s countless places like this all over the country, where there’s a continuous white line because it would be unsafe to cross to the other side of the road for the length of time and distance it would take to pass another vehicle moving at 80 kph or 100kph or whatever the limit is there. But as the second two cars in the video from Wicklow shows, it would be safe to cross the line for the much shorter length of time it takes to overtake a cyclist moving at normal cycling speed.

That’s all I’m talking about. Am not talking about giving a open licence for motorists to cross white lines anywhere and everywhere they want for any reason at all.

magicbastarder

that link blackwhite has put up definitely looks like it was once a dashed line but turned into a solid white line. i'd be curious as to why.

mistermaster

So it does. Well spotted!

I'd say that could even strengthen what I'm suggesting. Looks like it was once officially considered safe to cross to the other side there to overtake vehicles at probably 60 to 80 kph. So should still be safe to be allowed cross to the other side for the much shorter distance to pass a bike that's going 20 to 30 kph (assuming of course that there's nothing coming the other way!)

blackwhite

magicbastarder wrote: »

that link blackwhite has put up definitely looks like it was once a dashed line but turned into a solid white line. i'd be curious as to why.

Swing the view 180 degrees. Coming out of the city you are heading uphill towards a blind corner and the crest of a hill.

Perfect visibility heading towards Waterford, but no more than 50m visibility when heading the opposite direction.

In the perfect world it'd be double lined, with broken line for inbound and solid for outbound - but we generally only do single lines on L and R roads in Ireland

Yakuza

Pinch Flat wrote: »

yeah wouldn't normally look at Australia as a bastion of common sense when it comes to cycling, but crossing on a continuous white line may be one solution. Most motorists do it any way - it's just that they sometimes chose the most dangerous part of the road to do it. We had a fool overtake our group into a completely blind corner on Sunday, the car coming the other way had to stop dead to allow him continue, and he almost side swiped our top 2 riders when trying to get back in.

You're allowed break a white line in Spain when overtaking a bike.
This is an animation from their traffic corps.

magicbastarder

Yakuza wrote: »

This is an animation from their traffic corps.

RULE #1 - DO NOT DRIVE INTO THE CYCLIST

that appears to show the cyclist in a marked cycle lane. not clear whether that law only applies to those circumstances.

RobertFoster

magicbastarder wrote: »

that appears to show the cyclist in a marked cycle lane.

It's a hard shoulder (arcén). It says the cyclist must cycle in the hard shoulder (if it's good enough). Common sense after that (slow down, keep back, pass when safe, you're allowed across the white line into the oncoming lane, minimum 1.5 m from the cyclist).

mistermaster

RobertFoster wrote: »

It's a hard shoulder (arcén). It says the cyclist must cycle in the hard shoulder (if it's good enough). Common sense after that (slow down, keep back, pass when safe, you're allowed across the white line into the oncoming lane, minimum 1.5 m from the cyclist).

Thanks for the explanation and translation.

Overall then, it seems to be exactly what I’m saying I’d like to see here. I think most cyclists here would use the hard shoulder anyway, if it’s good enough. And of course an advantage of that is that if it’s wide enough as well as good enough, you can give yourself a large part of the 1.5 metres that we want anyway. Then that Spanish ad tells motorists to pull out anyway even if the cyclist is on the hard shoulder, and that they can cross a continuous white line where it’s safe to do so. Seems to make perfect sense all round to me.

tuxy

Wouldn't that require regular maintenance of the hard should to remove all the debris that's deposited by cars?

smacl

blackwhite wrote: »

Swing the view 180 degrees. Coming out of the city you are heading uphill towards a blind corner and the crest of a hill.

Perfect visibility heading towards Waterford, but no more than 50m visibility when heading the opposite direction.

In the perfect world it'd be double lined, with broken line for inbound and solid for outbound - but we generally only do single lines on L and R roads in Ireland

It's a good point though the line only stays solid for about 20m and then reverts to dashes.

Had a truck pass me on the crest of a hill yesterday coming into Claremorris and nearly take me out of it as they met a car coming the other way. I'd imagine the serious accidents are where you have one person doing a blind overtake meeting another person doing a blind overtake in the opposite direction. I tend to keep about a meter from edge when I'm climbing and pull in as needs be when I've traffic behind me so as not to be a cnut / frustrate drivers. I take the lane descending or anywhere dodgy that I can maintain a reasonable speed. Having met a car head on at full tilt and finding myself in bits on the side of the road a couple of years back, the current strategy is all about self preservation first and other peoples rules and sensibilities a very distant second. Funny thing is, if you take the lane and then pull in to let drivers past they appreciate your generosity whereas if you hug the edge you're just an obstacle.

blackwhite

smacl wrote: »

It's a good point though the line only stays solid for about 20m and then reverts to dashes.

Had a truck pass me on the crest of a hill yesterday coming into Claremorris and nearly take me out of it as they met a car coming the other way. I'd imagine the serious accidents are where you have one person doing a blind overtake meeting another person doing a blind overtake in the opposite direction. I tend to keep about a meter from edge when I'm climbing and pull in as needs be when I've traffic behind me so as not to be a cnut / frustrate drivers. I take the lane descending or anywhere dodgy that I can maintain a reasonable speed. Having met a car head on at full tilt and finding myself in bits on the side of the road a couple of years back, the current strategy is all about self preservation first and other peoples rules and sensibilities a very distant second. Funny thing is, if you take the lane and then pull in to let drivers past they appreciate your generosity whereas if you hug the edge you're just an obstacle.

Just using there as an example because it’s one I’m quite familiar with. It lasts approx 80-100m after cresting the hill

There’s a few examples on Strand Rd at sandymount also (passed on cycle to Dun Laoghaire this eve)

magicbastarder

I just had a guy in a Jeep overtake another cyclist, with me oncoming. He left it late and close. And I think the other cyclist was Weepsie?

Weepsie

It was me. I have it recorded if needed too. Might be worth reporting. I had a gut feeling they were going to gun it. I clocked you way back and figured they had made their mind up

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

I just had a guy in a Jeep overtake another cyclist, with me oncoming. He left it late and close. And I think the other cyclist was Weepsie?

I had the same this morning, it was weird, they gave so much room to the cyclist on a slight curve that I thought they were going to hit me head on, missed my by about 50cm in the end as I dived into the side. I doubt they even noticed.

Another car pulled in across me in Bray, I let a roar, they didn't hear but I stupidly kept going rather than braking. I got through but I should have stopped, it was one of those adrenaline moments where my head couldn't figure if stopping was going to keep safe so I ploughed on to clear the space. They copped me last second but still can't tell if I was right or wrong. They looked very sheepish for the rest of the trip. I let them know there rear view mirror was broken as I passed by for the last time with as sarcastic thumbs sign as I could manage.

magicbastarder

it was a day for it today, i had three motorists crossing the line with me obviously close.

Weepsie

https://streamable.com/n9xz8

The near miss with magicbastarder

and another last night near the airport which was even closer for me.Truck had passed the otehr side 10 seconds earlier so the road was well clear. They didn't care.

https://streamable.com/8agip

De Bhál

Weepsie wrote: »

https://streamable.com/n9xz8

The near miss with magicbastarder

and another last night near the airport which was even closer for me.Truck had passed the otehr side 10 seconds earlier so the road was well clear. They didn't care.

https://streamable.com/8agip

a hard shoulder by the back of the airport would be nice, I've had way too many close passes on the road.

Boom_Bap

De Bhál wrote: »

a hard shoulder by the back of the airport would be nice, I've had way too many close passes on the road.

You should have seen the Swords Express bus overtaking a cyclist on a blindish bend before the new junction/traffic lights this morning. It was super scary looking for me a few cars back nevermind the cyclist.

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

it was a day for it today, i had three motorists crossing the line with me obviously close.

This morning was glorious, people were so nice and giving loads of space, even obnoxiously so. Even the 84X waited behind rather than pulling alongside and swerving in. Even waved and smile when i gave him a thumbs up. There is something in the air.

irlirishkev

magicbastarder wrote: »

I just had a guy in a Jeep overtake another cyclist, with me oncoming. He left it late and close. And I think the other cyclist was Weepsie?

CramCycle wrote: »

I had the same this morning, it was weird, they gave so much room to the cyclist on a slight curve that I thought they were going to hit me head on, missed my by about 50cm in the end as I dived into the side. I doubt they even noticed.

Happens me every day here, in both directions. Great craic altogether..

Weepsie

Went around the park on my lunch. On the the way back up the quays saw an idiot cyclist nearly put themself under the wheels of a taxi. Taxi was well ahead, indicating, began to turn left. Cyclist could've slowed, or had ample time to go around but ploughed on straight. I was expecting to be calling an ambulance and to have to actually defend the taxi driver!

mr spuckler

I saw a similarly stupid one this morning. At the port end of East wall rd, at the junction where it's right lane for right turn, left lane for left turn. There's a green filter light for left turning traffic, a cyclist stops against the kerb while traffic is passing him turning left. Then as soon as the right turn light goes green he decides to proceed across the junction without checking what's coming behind him in that lane!
Some sort of truck was about to make a left turn and had to stop suddenly or he'd have been hit and would similarly have been to blame.

RobertFoster

Witnessed a takeaway courier nearly being smushed by a DFB estate car on the quays earlier. I was behind both of them on Wellington Quay, traffic had slowed because of the lights at Parliament St. so the courier ended up on the left of the DFB car when the lights turned green.

As they both got to Parliament St., the indicator went on (late) and the car started turning left. It looked like it was happening in slow motion, and I gave an involuntary "Look out!" shout. Only a few centimetres in it when both courier and DFB driver reacted, the cyclist braking hard and the driver continuing straight instead. The last I saw, the driver pulled in on Essex Quay, and the courier stayed on the quays until Hueston.

There must be something about that junction. A couple of months back I witnessed a motorbike coming the wrong way out of Parliament St. into the path of a van. Lots of beeping and aggressive chasing/brake checking from there to Merchant's Quay, resulting in a shouting match between the two of them. It would have to be the narrowest part of the quays where it happens.

ED E

DFB non engines are TERRIBLE drivers. Texting and all.

CramCycle

ED E wrote: »

DFB non engines are TERRIBLE drivers. Texting and all.

So pretty much like a large percentage of people.