Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Pinch Flat

Coming in to work today, I was alerted by some guy beeping his horn. This started at the hill approaching the junction of Bridge Street / High Street, just at Christchurch. The roads are quiet these mornings, and I tend to take the lane anyway. Plenty of room to pass me on my right. The beeping was constant and sometimes continuous. It was happening perhaps 100 meters or so behind me. It got my attention a few times, I glanced around and could see a car behind a cyclist, travelling at the cyclists speed. There was plenty of room to pass on the right - three lanes as you approach Christchurch, then effectively a dual carriageway to St. Patrick's cathedral.

Anyway, the horn blaring continued around through Jury's down the hill at Patrick Street and around the corner to the junction of Kevin Street. The cyclist behind me (the subject of the horn blaring) caught up with me at the lights and said some nutcase had tailgated him, horn blaring, all the way from the quays to the junction at Kevin Street, where the driver now got caught in traffic. Personally, I would have found it hard to inquire as to what exactly the problem was, given the roads are quiet and there's plenty of room to pass, but he let it go. Mentioned reporting it to the guards, but not sure if he got any details. I pass the cyclist regularly on my commute, so would be happy to go as a witness to this.

Cars send people mad people, be careful out there.

Chuchote

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Coming in to work today, I was alerted by some guy beeping his horn. This started at the hill approaching the junction of Bridge Street / High Street, just at Christchurch. The roads are quiet these mornings, and I tend to take the lane anyway. Plenty of room to pass me on my right. The beeping was constant and sometimes continuous. It was happening perhaps 100 meters or so behind me. It got my attention a few times, I glanced around and could see a car behind a cyclist, travelling at the cyclists speed. There was plenty of room to pass on the right - three lanes as you approach Christchurch, then effectively a dual carriageway to St. Patrick's cathedral.

Anyway, the horn blaring continued around through Jury's down the hill at Patrick Street and around the corner to the junction of Kevin Street. The cyclist behind me (the subject of the horn blaring) caught up with me at the lights and said some nutcase had tailgated him, horn blaring, all the way from the quays to the junction at Kevin Street, where the driver now got caught in traffic. Personally, I would have found it hard to inquire as to what exactly the problem was, given the roads are quiet and there's plenty of room to pass, but he let it go. Mentioned reporting it to the guards, but not sure if he got any details. I pass the cyclist regularly on my commute, so would be happy to go as a witness to this.

Cars send people mad people, be careful out there.

Time for more people to have cameras. I've noticed drivers behaving rather more carefully in the couple of days since I put the camera on. When they see it, they suddenly start behaving.

Pinch Flat

Chuchote wrote: »

Time for more people to have cameras. I've noticed drivers behaving rather more carefully in the couple of days since I put the camera on. When they see it, they suddenly start behaving.

I have a dual light on my bike - one's as strobe, the other a flood light. It's a kind of odd looking thing. The odd time' I'll point at it like it's a camera and it seems t work. It's a bit like those fake CCTV camera you put on your house.:pac:

But yeah, a proper one would be a worthwhile investment. It's going to be crazy next week when the schools go back......

D3PO

Thank you for all your comments re my near miss yesterday. I sent in a complaint to Dublin bus so lets see what happens. I don't hold out much hope of them doing anything other than pay lipservice to the complaint based on others similar experiences but lets see.

Over a day on and I still feel the adrenaline from it.

mp31

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Posted here about an incident at the end of February where a Dublin Bus driver cut in on me on a combined bus/bike lane along by Glasnevin Cemetery. He was pissed off that I hadn't gone on the alternative bike lane on the footpath. This is regularly blocked by illegally parked cars so I stay on the road.

I complained with details to both Dublin Bus and the Gardaí. Dublin Bus issued a very courteous reply and stated that they had identified the driver and that "whatever action is deemed necessary to prevent a recurrence will be taken". Despite two reminders, all I have heard from the Gardai in that a member from Finglas GS will be in touch. I'm no longer holding my breath.

Please don't let that stop you from reporting incidents in the future. As for the current complaint I'd suggest ringing Traffic Watch again and telling them that no one has called you back.

Danbo!

Was an interesting post on Dash cam thread in motors this morning, general gist was some guy listed a load of things that annoy him about cyclists and that they're a hazard on the roads and there should be a penalty point system. The list was the usual - breaking lights, no high viz or helmets, etc.. The post, along with my reply, have since been deleted because it's "not the place", but his attitude seems in line with what everyone is reporting in this thread tbh.



A bunch of cyclists not playing by the rules giving all of us a bad name, along with poor interpretation of the rules, along with just downright ignorance, resulting in not giving a sh*t about cyclists.

robyntmorton

The trouble with it is that motorists only ever notice the bad ones. If you were to ask a motorist to tell you how many cyclists they passed on the way to work this morning, they wouldn't have a clue, unless of course one of them broke a red light, took the lane or so on.

Really, as cyclists we only really pay attention to the bad drivers too, but the bad drivers have tonnes of vehicle around them, which can do even more damage.

Tenzor07

Danbo! wrote: »

A bunch of cyclists not playing by the rules giving all of us a bad name, along with poor interpretation of the rules, along with just downright ignorance, resulting in not giving a sh*t about cyclists.

Firstly though, who's "all of us?" I mean.. bicyclists are one of the most diverse group of people out there.. kinda like.. society really!

Also respect from motorists towards cyclists(many of whom are motorists also) should not have to be earned it should be a given!

Tenzor07

robyntmorton wrote: »

The trouble with it is that motorists only ever notice the bad ones. If you were to ask a motorist to tell you how many cyclists they passed on the way to work this morning, they wouldn't have a clue, unless of course one of them broke a red light, took the lane or so on.

I pondered that one...in a lot of near misses or close passes, the common response by the motorist is "Sorry mate I didn't see you"... therefore, how are bicyclists noticed when they go through a red traffic signal?

Danbo!

robyntmorton wrote: »

The trouble with it is that motorists only ever notice the bad ones. If you were to ask a motorist to tell you how many cyclists they passed on the way to work this morning, they wouldn't have a clue, unless of course one of them broke a red light, took the lane or so on.

Really, as cyclists we only really pay attention to the bad drivers too, but the bad drivers have tonnes of vehicle around them, which can do even more damage.

This was the basis of my, now deleted, reply. In a car, you might see hundreds of cyclists pass you, but only a limited number of cars around you. On a bike, you will see hundreds of cars but only a few cyclists around you.

Either way, the majority of cars behave well and are therefore unremarkable, but you'll remember the bad ones. But for some reason cyclists are an easy target for some people to write off as "all the same".

Danbo!

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Firstly though, who's "all of us?" I mean.. bicyclists are one of the most diverse group of people out there.. kinda like.. society really!

Anyone who uses a bike. Can I not categorise cyclists into a collective group?

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Also respect from motorists towards cyclists(many of whom are motorists also) should not have to be earned it should be a given!

I never said it should be earned. I'm saying that there is a minority of road users out there that believe this respect, whether earned or given, can be revoked from all cyclists based on their own experiences or ignorance of the rules.

tomasrojo

I have to say that the narrative surrounding bad drivers, at least here, is just that there are SOME terrible drivers out there. Despite the claims may by blow-ins, nobody very often says anything like "I hate motorists". It would be silly anyway, as you'd hate most or a very substantial minority of all the adults you know.

Tenzor07

Danbo! wrote: »

Either way, the majority of cars behave well and are therefore unremarkable, but you'll remember the bad ones. But for some reason cyclists are an easy target for some people to write off as "all the same".

Sorry, but the majority break speed limits daily, so much so that casual speeding is almost socially acceptable! (though not widely publicised)
Also such things as use of a mobile phone, it's an epidemic, figures put the rate of which people look at there smartphones as being around 110 times a day, even a 2 second glance at 80kph is enough to leave you essentially blind for almost 2 basketball court lengths!

AndrewJRenko

Danbo! wrote: »

Either way, the majority of cars behave well and are therefore unremarkable, but you'll remember the bad ones.

82% of motorists break urban speed limits, according to the RSA Speed Survey.

So that's 18% who behave well.

tomasrojo

And parking on the footway is endemic. In fact, motorists frequently eschew the legal option (parking fully on the road), to climb up on the footway (which is illegal) as a "courtesy" to other drivers.

I suspect that that's the closest analogue to red light breaking by cyclists. Speeding has a disproportionately high effect on road injuries and fatalities. Footway parking is just uncivil and sometimes places vulnerable people in hazardous situations, or just makes their life that bit worse. Sometimes it's unbelievably dickish.

tomasrojo

"Eschew" seems to be my new favourite word.

Tenzor07

Danbo! wrote: »

Anyone who uses a bike. Can I not categorise cyclists into a collective group?

that would be an ecumenical matter!

Though it's a bit like saying everyone from X country or X race behaves in a certain manner.. It's just too broad a statement to bunch a group of very diverse people into one group and just re-enforces the "Them and us" cyclist Vs. Motorist debate that the media love!

Danbo!

Tenzor07 wrote: »

that would be an ecumenical matter!

Though it's a bit like saying everyone from X country or X race behaves in a certain manner.. It's just too broad a statement to bunch a group of very diverse people into one group and just re-enforces the "Them and us" cyclist Vs. Motorist debate that the media love!

That is exactly my point though. A few people on bikes behaving badly results in some people losing respect for all cyclists.

Tenzor07

Danbo! wrote: »

That is exactly my point though. A few people on bikes behaving badly results in some people losing respect for all cyclists.

Yea sorry, just don't get how two people, say a cyclist and a motorist who have never met, just happen to "lose respect" for each other, despite never having met?
How can the driver have determined whether a cyclist had or had not “earned” sufficient respect?

Not saying it's your exact opinion but "bikes behaving badly" seems just like an excuse not to admonish bad or potentially dangerous behavior by motorists..

tomasrojo

I don't think a few people behaving badly results in other people losing respect. The others just seize on the bad behaviour to rationalise their dislike.

It's the unfortunate position of being in a minority or out-group. Individuals are treated as representative of the whole in a way that never happens with the majority.

Ian Walker writes about this a fair bit:
https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-25/edition-9/interview-vulnerable-road-users

See especially the section that beings:

A report from the Transport Research Laboratory and University of Strathclyde a few years ago led by Lynn Basford (PDF via tinyurl.com/7qk877b) suggested that there’s some classic social psychology at work here – cyclists represent an outgroup such that the usual outgroup effects are seen, particularly overgeneralisation of negative behaviour and attributes – ‘They all ride through red lights all the time’. It’s hard to escape the conclusion that something of this sort is going on.

Danbo!

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yea sorry, just don't get how two people, say a cyclist and a motorist who have never met, just happen to "lose respect" for each other, despite never having met?
How can the driver have determined whether a cyclist had or had not “earned†sufficient respect?

Not saying it's your exact opinion but "bikes behaving badly" seems just like an excuse not to admonish bad or potentially dangerous behavior by motorists..

I was just saying that the general gist of the post in the motors forum had tones of that, and that I could not understand why someone would decide to decide to disrespect all cyclists based on their interactions with some. Basically, I see motorists driving poorly daily but do not all of a sudden have the opinion all motorists are a hazard, so I'm wondering why it (at least seems to) happen with cyclists.

Pinch Flat

Danbo! wrote: »

I was just saying that the general gist of the post in the motors forum had tones of that, and that I could not understand why someone would decide to decide to disrespect all cyclists based on their interactions with some. Basically, I see motorists driving poorly daily but do not all of a sudden have the opinion all motorists are a hazard, so I'm wondering why it (at least seems to) happen with cyclists.

I'd say it's a combination of things - cyclists are low hanging fruit, so cycling is "dangerous", a sense of motorists ownership of the roads due to "road tax"" that cyclists don't pay, frustration from drivers being stuck in traffic and seeing cyclists progress easier.

Motorists also feel it necessary to lecture cyclists on their attire - helmets / hi-vis etc. It's again to reinforce that cycling is dangerous, whereas we all know it's motorized traffic that makes roads dangerous in the first place.

Annie get your Run

Danbo! wrote: »

I was just saying that the general gist of the post in the motors forum had tones of that, and that I could not understand why someone would decide to decide to disrespect all cyclists based on their interactions with some. Basically, I see motorists driving poorly daily but do not all of a sudden have the opinion all motorists are a hazard, so I'm wondering why it (at least seems to) happen with cyclists.

I had just typed a similar reply, why?? but tomasrojo's link seems to go some way to explain it. I would never tar all motorists with the same brush (possibly with the exception of taxi drivers.....!) There are good and bad amongst all road users, I'm happy to assume they're good until they show me otherwise which seems to be the opposite of how cyclists are seen 'assume they're all bad red light jumping, holding up the traffic peeps who therefore deserve no respect'. Frightening.

Tenzor07

Danbo! wrote: »

I was just saying that the general gist of the post in the motors forum had tones of that, and that I could not understand why someone would decide to decide to disrespect all cyclists based on their interactions with some. Basically, I see motorists driving poorly daily but do not all of a sudden have the opinion all motorists are a hazard, so I'm wondering why it (at least seems to) happen with cyclists.

Because it's acceptable(in some crazy persons mind) to discriminate against a less powerful minority would be the closest answer I have to that..

magicbastarder

tomasrojo wrote: »

"Eschew" seems to be my new favourite word.

bless you.

LpPepper

I was out with about 8 or 9 from my club yesterday evening for a spin and had this driver overtake us very closely and into the path of an oncoming car on the way into Celbridge....The wide angle lens on my GoPro makes it appear not as close or as fast as it really was, was sincerely scary.

Absolutely nuts....

brownian

Very nearly took out the other car, whatever about you lads.

amcalester

brownian wrote: »

Very nearly took out the other car, whatever about you lads.

I wonder if the other motorist blames the over taker for the unsafe manoeuvre or the cyclists for "forcing" him to overtake like that?

Pinch Flat

LpPepper wrote: »

I was out with about 8 or 9 from my club yesterday evening for a spin and had this driver overtake us very closely and into the path of an oncoming car on the way into Celbridge....The wide angle lens on my GoPro makes it appear not as close or as fast as it really was, was sincerely scary.

Absolutely nuts....

Crazy, senseless maneuver. Needlessly putting others at risk. For what? A few seconds. The mind boggles.

LpPepper

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Crazy, senseless maneuver. Needlessly putting others at risk. For what? A few seconds. The mind boggles.

The driver pulled in just before the bridge in Celbridge village literally about 30 seconds later, with the hazards on. We were just waiting for him to swing open the door or shout something at us but nothing happened. So he literally put our lives and the other driver's life in his hands because he wanted to pull in up the road a few seconds sooner??