Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Panjandrums

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buffalo

Panjandrums wrote: »

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Why a friendly reminder? That's what the RSA ads on the television are for.

The Garda should observe the behaviour and punish an (apparently serial) offender.

AndrewJRenko

Panjandrums wrote: »

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What's the 'hassle'? It's just one adult talking to another adult. What's the problem?

Is your advice about the Garda based on personal experience? Because my experience is different. I've brought video to the Gardai showing drivers on the phones, and got a load of excuses - oh, it might not be a phone in his hand, oh, maybe she had an emergency etc. So I really doubt that the Gardai are going to do much based on a call like this.

site_owner

Saw a car driving along with a decent length of wavin pipe sticking out the passenger window.

Didn't seem to be paying any attention to the fact that this was going to clothesline any cyclists he happened to try pass

Kaisr Sose

Panjandrums wrote: »

No, all the guard is doing is giving a friendly reminder to the driver that it's illegal to be in your phone while driving. He's not taking the driver to court.

I can’t see them doing that on the word of a member of the public. They have to see it, otherwise it’s the same as hearsay. What if I reported you for that and was just making it up ?? How would you feel about that?

And bear in mind it’s difficult enough to get them to follow up on close passes.

Panjandrums

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AndrewJRenko

Panjandrums wrote: »

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How did you manage to equate 'having a video' with a particular style of communication? Given that you weren't present, I'm slightly amazed at your apparent knowledge of how I communicated. I guess this is on a par with your knowledge of the deaths/serious injuries caused by cyclists in Ireland that never actually happened.

But regardless, I went through the process that the Garda recommend - initial complaint to TrafficWatch, followed by making a statement in the station. I don't recall anything in the legislation that gives Garda discretion based on 'how the complainant communicates'. It's a matter of law, and they actively choosing not to enforce the current law.

You seem to have missed my earlier question so I'll try it again: Is your advice about the Garda based on personal experience?

TheChizler

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I can’t see them doing that on the word of a member of the public. They have to see it, otherwise it’s the same as hearsay. What if I reported you for that and was just making it up ?? How would you feel about that?

If the statement can be made in court, if they gave an official statement or went to court as a witness themselves, then it's not hearsay.

SPDUB

RacoonQueen wrote: »

There is another junction in Terenure, where the light is before you hit the junction so if you cycle through it and then hit the junction the light can have gone red by the time you are barely crossing the junction.

Similar situation at the junction of Crumlin Road and Sundrive Rd at the Loreto School .

https://www.google.com/maps/place/R110,+Drimnagh,+Dublin/@53.3301126,-6.2981397,3a,75y,118.18h,92.61t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0F12JrnIbvdUGUmeht9VPg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D0F12JrnIbvdUGUmeht9VPg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D312.57324%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x48670c6a358f8441:0x22022daad71f1ec4!8m2!3d53.3301296!4d-6.2981945

Plenty of times I have gone through a green light but before I got to the junction the traffic coming out of Sundrive Road has got a green to go .

TallGlass

Panjandrums wrote: »

Why would you want to argue with someone at the roadside?
It's not your role to tell other road users how you think the road should be used and let's face it, there's very few people that know every law governing the road.

You do know the range of arguements doesn't mean having to roar at people? It's a disagreement if you want to be extremely technical about it. Which I try not to be. Yano, cms in my lane and the type of stuff.

Well if it wasn't my role, why do manufacturers feel the need to install a horn on both my car and motorcycle? You do get the fact sometimes you have to not only tell someone not to do something but force them to not do something?

Kaisr Sose

TheChizler wrote: »

If the statement can be made in court, if they gave an official statement or went to court as a witness themselves, then it's not hearsay.

You mis-interpret what I said. If you go to the station and say x, without any evidence, it’s as good as hearsay.The other party denies, so you have no way of knowing what’s what.

Lambay island

TallGlass wrote: »

You do know the range of arguements doesn't mean having to roar at people? It's a disagreement if you want to be extremely technical about it. Which I try not to be. Yano, cms in my lane and the type of stuff.

Well if it wasn't my role, why do manufacturers feel the need to install a horn on both my car and motorcycle? You do get the fact sometimes you have to not only tell someone not to do something but force them to not do something?

Horns are installed for warning reasons only. They have been used for all sorts of behaviour for so long that id imagine a large percentage of people don't even know its proper purpose.

magicbastarder

nee wrote: »

I am constantly bewildered on group spins by how others think it's ok to approach horses. Slow the fup down, hang back and make a noise way out. I wait until the rider makes a sign it's ok to pass before I go by.

you saw that story of the horse being hit by a car over the weekend? i think my wife knows the owner - she was leading a (lame) horse into a field, saw a car coming, and waved at it to slow down. the driver hit the horse and kept going:

https://twitter.com/campbellsuz/status/987999105283747841

TheChizler

Just looked up the ROTR there on this. I knew the obligation to take instruction applied to people driving cattle or sheep but not horses. There's no difference it seems between the hand signal for 'I intend to slow down' and telling another road user to slow down. Obviously you should take extra care in both circumstances but how is the person behind you supposed to know which you're using?

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

you saw that story of the horse being hit by a car over the weekend? i think my wife knows the owner - she was leading a (lame) horse into a field, saw a car coming, and waved at it to slow down. the driver hit the horse and kept going:

https://twitter.com/campbellsuz/status/987999105283747841

Fuppin hell, although it should hardly be surprising. I have met so many people who have had drivers drive off that I doubt it is as rare as it may appear statistically. Many probably think there is no point going to the Gardai.

TheChizler wrote: »

Just looked up the ROTR there on this. I knew the obligation to take instruction applied to people driving cattle or sheep but not horses. There's no difference it seems between the hand signal for 'I intend to slow down' and telling another road user to slow down. Obviously you should take extra care in both circumstances but how is the person behind you supposed to know which you're using?

Surely they both mean the same thing, if I am in front of you and intend to slow down, you would have to slow down so it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

magicbastarder

TheChizler wrote: »

Just looked up the ROTR there on this. I knew the obligation to take instruction applied to people driving cattle or sheep but not horses. There's no difference it seems between the hand signal for 'I intend to slow down' and telling another road user to slow down. Obviously you should take extra care in both circumstances but how is the person behind you supposed to know which you're using?

from what i understand, she was leading the horse - i.e. not riding it - not sure if that is relevant to what the ROTR says.

eeeee

TheChizler wrote: »

Just looked up the ROTR there on this. I knew the obligation to take instruction applied to people driving cattle or sheep but not horses. There's no difference it seems between the hand signal for 'I intend to slow down' and telling another road user to slow down. Obviously you should take extra care in both circumstances but how is the person behind you supposed to know which you're using?

If you're unsure how to pass livestock on the road you wait behind until you're told to pass.
We've discussed passing horses up thread, cattle and sheep it's more critical. I'd never, ever pass sheep or cattle being driven on the road (different if they've just escaped a field). I've spent a decent amount of time moving cattle on the road, you just never, ever go by them.
You wait patiently behind them until they turn off the road.
Also the person asking you to slow down will either be in front or behind a herd of cattle and sheep. It's a big giveaway it was the first traffic hand signal I learnt.

RacoonQueen

nee wrote: »

If you're unsure how to pass livestock on the road you wait behind until you're told to pass.
We've discussed passing horses up thread, cattle and sheep it's more critical. I'd never, ever pass sheep or cattle being driven on the road (different if they've just escaped a field). I've spent a decent amount of time moving cattle on the road, you just never, ever go by them.
You wait patiently behind them until they turn off the road.
Also the person asking you to slow down will either be in front or behind a herd of cattle and sheep. It's a big giveaway it was the first traffic hand signal I learnt.

Is this dependant on the width of road? I often meet same guy moving a herd of cattle on the N81. Cars obviously coming in other direction and drivers will overtake when no cars coming. I'll overtake herd on bike same way.

eeeee

magicbastarder wrote: »

from what i understand, she was leading the horse - i.e. not riding it - not sure if that is relevant to what the ROTR says.

Doesn't matter. Horses are livestock, same rules apply.
Trying to get through a herd of cattle or sheep or horses or flying by a horse is inexcusable. I think you don't have to have been a farmer to understand how insanely ignorant and dangerous it is. Or maybe you do?
Moving cattle is second only to making silage in terms of farmer stress in our house. Then the test.

eeeee

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Is this dependant on the width of road? I often meet same guy moving a herd of cattle on the N81. Cars obviously coming in other direction and drivers will overtake when no cars coming. I'll overtake herd on bike same way.

I always wait until the person at the front of the animals say it's ok to pass.
Are they milking cows (tall, rangy, black and white?) ? They could be going to the parlour.
There's a guy who's farm is 600m from the town down home, his cows walk the road twice a day, and it's large enough and they're used to it. I still wouldn't pass them on the opposite side of the road, others do. Cows are different though, they really too be milked, know whether they're going so are less likely to turn back on ya.

RacoonQueen

nee wrote: »

I always wait until the person at the front of the animals say it's ok to pass.
Are they milking cows (tall, rangy, black and white?) ? They could be going to the parlour.
There's a guy who's farm is 600m from the town down home, his cows walk the road twice a day, and it's large enough and they're used to it. I still wouldn't pass them on the opposite side of the road, others do. Cows are different though, they really too be milked, know whether they're going so are less likely to turn back on ya.

I think so but I don't pay that much attention I have met them going both directions so going to/from milking parlour would make sense. He has a dog with him who helps keep them under control *Would only overtake on bike if I can literally get right over to other side of road and if the dog is not running round like a looney. Cows don't seem bothered by the cars coming against them.



*really I just want to stop and pet the dog but I don't think farmer would like that

TheChizler

CramCycle wrote: »

Surely they both mean the same thing, if I am in front of you and intend to slow down, you would have to slow down so it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

Well you'd (sensible people) be slowing down anyway once you see them regardless of the signal they're giving, and going to overtake once it's safe. I must have a look at the legislation but the ROTR describes the signals seperately in different contexts. I'd never heard of having to stop for someone on a horse giving a signal before, and I've come across maybe a single instance of someone horse riding in 10 years of driving so I'd never thought about it before, so just trying to make sense of it.

nee wrote: »

If you're unsure how to pass livestock on the road you wait behind until you're told to pass.
We've discussed passing horses up thread, cattle and sheep it's more critical. I'd never, ever pass sheep or cattle being driven on the road (different if they've just escaped a field). I've spent a decent amount of time moving cattle on the road, you just never, ever go by them.

I wouldn't either but coming across a person riding a horse is very different to coming across a farmer driving 20/30 animals, what's obvious for one isn't so obvious for the other.

Every day's a school day.

buffalo

nee wrote: »

Doesn't matter. Horses are livestock, same rules apply.
Trying to get through a herd of cattle or sheep or horses or flying by a horse is inexcusable. I think you don't have to have been a farmer to understand how insanely ignorant and dangerous it is. Or maybe you do?

It's not as black and white until you've been through it and considered it. If you've lived it, it's second nature and innate to you.

The first time I came across a horse while out cycling, it had its back to me and I just went to the very far side of the road and overtook with a super wide berth, quietly without any fuss (but at speed). When I got home, I wondered whether I'd done the right thing and posted in the equestrian forum and learned that I should've made some noise first. It's not obvious.

Another time cycling the canal near Enfield, I was blocked by a herd of cattle who were grazing on the canal bank. They seemed to have gotten out of a field, so I spent about 30 mins tracking down the owner, who told me I should just barge through them, they'd get out of my way.
I returned to the canal bank and slowly advanced, wheeling the bike. The cows kept backing away until they were crammed against a fence. I started to fear either one of them ending up in the canal, or being trampled if they bolted, so I abandoned the canal for a stretch instead.

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

from what i understand, she was leading the horse - i.e. not riding it - not sure if that is relevant to what the ROTR says.

No difference at all, your still moving livestock.

TheChizler wrote: »

Well you'd (sensible people) be slowing down anyway once you see them regardless of the signal they're giving, and going to overtake once it's safe. I must have a look at the legislation but the ROTR describes the signals seperately in different contexts. I'd never heard of having to stop for someone on a horse giving a signal before, and I've come across maybe a single instance of someone horse riding in 10 years of driving so I'd never thought about it before, so just trying to make sense of it.

I wouldn't use the ROTR for much more than wiping my boots considering how many errors have been in it over the years. If someone is telling you (or asking you) to stop or slow down, it is pretty obvious.

I wouldn't either but coming across a person riding a horse is very different to coming across a farmer driving 20/30 animals, what's obvious for one isn't so obvious for the other.

I see your point, and alot of people don't realise even for cattle. The law is quite black and white on it though, if you are moving animals on along the roadway you have the right to stop traffic. Not sure if you can direct or control them (I'd be doubtful) but you can stop them, pretty much the same powers as a lollipop person. Not obeying them is an offence, although I don't know of anyone prosecuted for it.

When I was a farmer many years ago, there would always be one who would try and drive through. I loved it when they got there car sh1t on or a wing mirror bent. Absolute muppetry.

CramCycle

buffalo wrote: »

The first time I came across a horse while out cycling, it had its back to me and I just went to the very far side of the road and overtook with a super wide berth, quietly without any fuss. When I got home, I wondered whether I'd done the right thing and posted in the equestrian forum and learned that I should've made some noise first. It's not obvious.

I rode horses for years, a noise is great but what you done is fine as well.

Another time cycling the canal near Enfield, I was blocked by a herd of cattle who were grazing on the canal bank. They seemed to have gotten out of a field, so I spent about 30 mins tracking down the owner, who told me I should just barge through them, they'd get out of my way.
I returned to the canal bank and slowly advanced, wheeling the bike. The cows kept backing away until they were crammed against a fence. I started to fear either one of them ending up in the canal, or being trampled if they bolted, so I abandoned the canal for a stretch instead.

Farmer was wrong here, probably letting them get free feed for a bit before he moved them back. While i have no fear of cattle, I am under no illusion that they could kill you or seriously injure you. There are a few farmers like this, farmer should have been up on his feet and out the door to move them back ASAP.

We had a bull that was reasonably quiet but could on occasion just take a dislike to you. Funny thing was he was blind in one eye, so as long as you side stepped to your right (his left), he had to run in a circle to find you again. I have pulled a calf from a cow in a field without issue but my mum was thrown against a gate by a calving cow after it ran across the yard at her (typically docile animal). You just never know. Most of ours were quite timid, fed nuts and well used to be handled up close, you could easily move 30 of them on your own.

Hurrache

TheChizler wrote: »

but how is the person behind you supposed to know which you're using?

Cop on? You see someone with farm animals or horses you should be slowing right down anyway.

I find it odd that people needed to look up the ROTR to check who has the power to request you to stop or slow, it used to be the one question that was always asked in the Q&A part of the driving test.

TheChizler

Hurrache wrote: »

Cop on? You see someone with farm animals or horses you should be slowing right down anyway.

I find it odd that people needed to look up the ROTR to check who has the power to request you to stop or slow, it used to be the one question that was always asked in the Q&A part of the driving test.

Which is exactly what I said.

It's one situation that many people are unlikely to come across all that often, so understandable that they might need a reminder. It's always a good idea to refresh your memory of the rules.

Kaisr Sose

magicbastarder wrote: »

you saw that story of the horse being hit by a car over the weekend? i think my wife knows the owner - she was leading a (lame) horse into a field, saw a car coming, and waved at it to slow down. the driver hit the horse and kept going:

https://twitter.com/campbellsuz/status/987999105283747841

Good news the driver was caught. Too much speeding and dangerous drivers on our rural roads. Was nearly taken out of it on the Embankment on Sat by an anonymous white van ripping it. Passed in excess of 100km with about 30/40cm to spare. Bike was first pushed inward by the air ahead and then sucked outward into the hole behind it. Road is plenty wide to prevent this but the a-hole driving never bothered to try a safe pass. Alas, no video!!

RacoonQueen

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Good news the driver was caught. Too much speeding and dangerous drivers on our rural roads. Was nearly taken out of it on the Embankment on Sat by an anonymous white van ripping it. Passed in excess of 100km with about 30/40cm to spare. Bike was first pushed inward by the air ahead and then sucked outward into the hole behind it. Road is plenty wide to prevent this but the a-hole driving never bothered to try a safe pass. Alas, no video!!

It's a pretty bad stretch for horrendous driving from all forms of motorists. Motorbikes are awful on it too. Saw a 4 x 4 overtaking 3 cars in a row along there yesterday, coming against me, he could barely overtake the second one because it was already going fast...he still had a car to clear after that one. Can be scary to have someone coming directly towards you at that speed, would doubt he saw me cycling in that lane at all.

joey100

I was on the embankment road all the way to Tullow from Tallaght on Saturday. Has to have been my worst day ever on the bike, Countless close passes, nearly put into the ditch twice by jeeps pulling trailers who went to overtake on blind bends and then had to dive back in, and just constant beeping from drivers. I normally don't get too much hassle from drivers but I've never experienced anything like Saturday before, cut the cycle short by around an hour cos just couldn't put up with it.