Banning laptops on planes....

Grayson

I didn't see another thread on this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/uk-set-to-ban-laptops-on-flights-from-middle-east-countries

The UK government has announced a sweeping cabin ban on laptops and tablets on inbound flights from six countries, following a similar move by the US on Monday.

The UK ban on any electronic item larger than a normal smartphone applies to all direct passenger flights from Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia.

Six UK airlines – British Airways, EasyJet, Jet2, Monarch, Thomas Cook and Thomson – and eight foreign carriers are affected.

Though the restrictions, effective immediately, will not apply to flights where UK travellers change planes in European airports, it is likely other European countries are considering similar restrictions.

That follows on from the US doing something similar. Authorities have said they have no information about an immediate threat but it's about the changing nature of terrorism.

Honestly, it seems weird. If they thought the laptops might be bombs then they're just as dangerous in the luggage bays. If it's about signals and stuff then phones are just as bad. Plus it applies to duty free.

Personally, I hate flying. I always have a tablet and laptop with me, both fully charged and both chock full of media to watch. That would put me off travelling to the countries affected and on the airlines affected.

Jack the Stripper

What is a laptop is it in the same league as a scart lead?

joeysoap

It's a bit weird. What's to stop someone from say Turkey travelling by train to Sofia ( approx €32 ) and getting on a plane to London from there?

http://www.seat61.com/international-trains/trains-from-Istanbul.htm



What's to stop the same person getting on a plane from Istanbul to Dublin and getting on a plane from here to London?

RobertKK

There was an incident in Somalia where a laptop bomb blew a hole into the side of the plane, but the pilot managed to land the plane.
Al Shabaab were blamed for it.

Graces7

Does it mean using one or just carrying one?

suicide_circus

fear theatre

stefanovich

They are racist obviously for targeting these countries. No terrorism threat from these particular nations of course.

Knasher

It's very odd that the US included Abu Dhabi in their ban, seeing they operate preclearance from there. If they don't think their own screening is good enough to catch this, then why wouldn't this apply to every flight?

gramar

There must be a committee of halfwits somewhere coming up with ideas to make air travel an even bigger pain in the hole.

Witchie

It said any electronic devices larger than a mobile phone, does that include Kindles? I would be lost without mine.

gramar

Witchie wrote: »

It said any electronic devices larger than a mobile phone, does that include Kindles? I would be lost without mine.

Does it have GPS?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Gyalist

It's simply protectionism cloaked as terrorism prevention.

JUST BEFORE U.S. airline industry CEOs met at the White House with Donald Trump on Thursday, the big three carriers — Delta, United and American — released a video featuring some of Trump’s populist rhetoric about “trade cheats” and directing viewers to a website for a lobbying campaign to “protect American jobs.”

But the campaign, called the Partnership for Open & Fair Skies, is in reality a cutthroat bid to block certain Arab airlines from U.S. airports — a decision analysts say would limit the choices for consumers while increasing market consolidation for the big three.

This comes after a similar request for protection during the Obama administration — which sought to prevent foreign competitors from offering lower prices — was largely rebuffed.

But now that there’s a president who has promised to crack down on foreigners, the airlines are at it again, hoping to harness “America First” rhetoric for profiteering protectionism.

LINK

Notice that the ban does not affect US-registered carriers. It's the US government protecting US airlines from competition from state-backed Middle East airlines (Etihad, Emirates and Qatar Airways).
The choice is now between a direct flight from the ME to the US without any personal entertainment equipment or a flight with an additional stop on a (code-sharing) U.S. carrier.

It is the use of security as an excuse for differential regional pricing whereby the price of goods is dependant on 'how much the market will bear in each region' rather than a straightforward global price for all consumers.

The British ban is to achieve the same aim even though it targets different airports and airlines than the US does. That is likely a reflection of British Airways' competitive situation on those routes.

Samaris

I'll be weirdly impressed if anyone manages to make a bomb out of a kindle.

Firefox11

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Or you could bring an actual paper book!!

gramar

Firefox11 wrote: »

Or you could bring an actual paper book!!

You'd better explain what that is for the benefit of the younger members of the audience!

Peregrinus

Gyalist wrote: »

The British ban is to achieve the same aim even though it targets different airports and airlines than the US does. That is likely a reflection of British Airways' competitive situation on those routes.

The British ban isn't airline-specific, as I understand it. All airlines flying the routes concerned are equally affected.

BBDBB

Can I interest anyone in buying a totally safe entertainment device for their flights?
Made from largely organic material, its an engaging and entertaining device, simple to operate once in the upright position. Does require some manual dexterity to operate effectively. Available around the world in a variety of formats with genres to suit many and varied tastes. The back catalogue of user material is massively varied and can date back hundreds of years right the way through to today. It can educate, inform, bewilder, challenge and entertain and is suitable for a broad age range.

A marvel of the modern age, its known simply as a book. You may have heard of them


;-)

DivingDuck

Asking people to put their laptops in the luggage hold —considering the way those bags are treated, and the importance and value of the information on them for most people— is tantamount to cancelling those flights for anyone who needs to bring a computer with them for travel.

BBDBB

So next to the Car rental places at airports, they will now start offering laptop hire for the duration of your stay

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Graces7 wrote: »

Does it mean using one or just carrying one?

Carrying one on board.

VinLieger

While I don't really agree with the ban i'm also highly amused by the massive over reactions of people about this, some dude on TV last night calling it "an infringment of his personal liberties"..... hilarious

ChikiChiki

Decisions as abrupt as this are not taken lightly. There have been very strong intelligence of an imminent event.

gramar

VinLieger wrote: »

While I don't really agree with the ban i'm also highly amused by the massive over reactions of people about this, some dude on TV last night calling it "an infringment of his personal liberties"..... hilarious

Well it is a little. A tablet/kindle/laptop are normal things to be bringing on a plane. Barring the exploding galaxy note I don't recall any of these devices being used to blow up any airplanes.

irishgeo

They caught someone trying to board a plane with a laptop bomb who had hand been handed the laptop after the security checkpoint.

So perhaps it's the fact the airside security isn't as tight in these airports that's also an issue.

biko

My biggest concern about laptops is that Customs and Border Protection or Immigration and Customs Enforcement will copy my laptop's data and keep it or share it with third party.
Or just seize my laptop because my company have encrypted it.

Jayop

The pain in the hole about this is its more likely than not that rather than this being a temporary measure from just these airports it's be expanded to other countries and other airports becoming the normal thing. Now no one should use a laptop unless they have a spacious business class flight anyway but tablets and especially kindles are brilliant for a plane.

And BTW the reason take a kindle rather than a book should be obvious to the few who suggested it. The ability to take several thousand books on holidays for a fraction of the space and size of a single book is the reason.

Gyalist

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Decisions as abrupt as this are not taken lightly. There have been very strong intelligence of an imminent event.

So why doesn't the ban apply to US-registered carriers but only to their major competitors (Etihad, Emirates, Qatar, and Turkish Airlines)?

pickarooney

Jayop wrote: »

The pain in the hole about this is its more likely than not that rather than this being a temporary measure from just these airports it's be expanded to other countries and other airports becoming the normal thing. Now no one should use a laptop unless they have a spacious business class flight anyway but tablets and especially kindles are brilliant for a plane.

And BTW the reason take a kindle rather than a book should be obvious to the few who suggested it. The ability to take several thousand books on holidays for a fraction of the space and size of a single book is the reason.

How long and boring are your holidays?

DivingDuck

pickarooney wrote: »

How long and boring are your holidays?

Some people value choice.

Some people also enjoy reading a lot on their holidays. They don't find it boring; it's what they enjoy.

i71jskz5xu42pb

50% US airline protectionism
50% Muslim ban by stealth

Jayop

pickarooney wrote: »

How long and boring are your holidays?

The flights are long and boring for one thing. I also have kids with me so after they go to bed at night there's nothing better than sitting on the balcony having a glass of wine and reading a book. Relaxation heaven.

Knasher

Jayop wrote: »

The pain in the hole about this is its more likely than not that rather than this being a temporary measure from just these airports it's be expanded to other countries and other airports becoming the normal thing.

God I hope not. I have to fly through the Middle East a couple times a year for work, and I really don't like the idea of trusting the baggage handlers with my laptop. My brother has had new clothes nicked out of his bag, my laptop is easier to steal and more expensive than those.

My only hope is to start flying though Amsterdam instead of the UK from now on.

Jayop

Knasher wrote: »

God I hope not. I have to fly through the Middle East a couple times a year for work, and I really don't like the idea of trusting the baggage handlers with my laptop. My brother has had new clothes nicked out of his bag, my laptop is easier to steal and more expensive than those.

My only hope is to start flying though Amsterdam instead of the UK from now on.

Tis only an uneducated (very negative) guess from me, but given that the post 911 restrictions were never lifted despite being pretty pointless I don't think I'm wrong.

jmayo

gramar wrote: »

There must be a committee of halfwits somewhere coming up with ideas to make air travel an even bigger pain in the hole.

You see the thing is a bunch of backward gobdaws found that it was easy enough to bring down a plane full of people with some fairly innocuous everyday items.
These gobdaws weren't interested in just hijacking, but actually turning said plane into a flaming ball and then security has to be ramped up to try counteract them.
It isn't just some grand plan to make air travel uncomfortable or a pain in the hole for you.

Samaris wrote: »

I'll be weirdly impressed if anyone manages to make a bomb out of a kindle.

Ever heard of a little item called a letter bomb.

The PIRA were actually world leaders in them way back as far as the 70s.
Now they might only blow the hand or face off you on the ground, but in the air that could put a hole through an aircraft body and a little hole can become a very big hole quiet quickly at 30,000 plus feet.

And the Israelis were quiet adept at turning old mobile phones in the 90s into bombs.

So not quiet as far fetched as you believe.

VinLieger wrote: »

While I don't really agree with the ban i'm also highly amused by the massive over reactions of people about this, some dude on TV last night calling it "an infringment of his personal liberties"..... hilarious

I think some eejit called it racist and discriminatory.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

wes

If the ban was about security, it would be for all flights, and it is arguably putting passengers in more danger, as a battery fire in the hold, may go unnoticed for a while.

So basically a really stupid policy that will probably be more dangerous for passengers.

Buffman

Gyalist wrote: »

So why doesn't the ban apply to US-registered carriers but only to their major competitors (Etihad, Emirates, Qatar, and Turkish Airlines)?

Because they only picked/banned airports that US carriers don't serve anymore.

BlinkingLights

Hopefully this doesn't get extended to become a general rule like the way the water bottle thing did.

I could see this just putting a lot of people off flying long haul.

Tbh, I would be loathed to put my laptop (work in graphics and video) into checked luggage in case it was damaged or stolen. I have had too many bad experiences with luggage coming back that had been very badly handled and I've had items stolen out of luggage a couple of times (not in Ireland) and bags go missing for weeks.

Not a hope I would put the one device I need for my livelihood and a really important and expensive tool into checked luggage.

I would honestly trust DHL or FedEx first.

The reason I bring cameras and laptops in cabin baggage is simply that I know they're not going to be driven over by a luggage truck or squashed.

HeidiHeidi

BlinkingLights wrote: »

Hopefully this doesn't get extended to become a general rule like the way the water bottle thing did.

I could see this just putting a lot of people off flying long haul.

Tbh, I would be loathed to put my laptop (work in graphics and video) into checked luggage in case it was damaged or stolen. I have had too many bad experiences with luggage coming back that had been very badly handled and I've had items stolen out of luggage a couple of times (not in Ireland) and bags go missing for weeks.

Not a hope I would put the one device I need for my livelihood and a really important and expensive tool into checked luggage.

I would honestly trust DHL or FedEx first.

The reason I bring cameras and laptops in cabin baggage is simply that I know they're not going to be driven over by a luggage truck or squashed.

FedEx and DHL freight goes by plane, and is presumably loaded by baggage-handlers as well. Not sure I'd assume they'd be treating it all with kid gloves either.

xabi

Dont get this, if they manage to make a bomb from a laptop wont it still cause damage in the hold?

Little CuChulainn

gramar wrote: »

There must be a committee of halfwits somewhere coming up with ideas to make air travel an even bigger pain in the hole.

If they wanted to make air travel safer they should just give all passengers stun guns to stun anyone they suspect of being terrorists.

conorhal

Well this will certainly be a boon for light fingered baggage handlers, all those expensive electronic items in 'lost luggage'.
On the other hand there is the positive side effect of not being stuck next to some kid gaming or watching endless cartoons on a device to 'keep them entertained' while I go slowly insane because headphones are a foreign concept to their parents.

osarusan

Ah f**k that, I won't be able to do my favourite mid-flight prank anymore.

VinLieger

xabi wrote: »

Dont get this, if they manage to make a bomb from a laptop wont it still cause damage in the hold?

It goes through different security measures to get to the hold than the cabin, as suggested above its possible the worry is the laptops may be getting smuggled through by airport staff not going through passenger security then being handed to passengers after security to take into the cabin.

Not saying that's definitely the reason but its one of the possible scenarios this is being enacted to prevent

Skylinehead

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If they wanted to make air travel safer they should just give all passengers stun guns to stun anyone they suspect of being terrorists.

Anyone that kicks the back of my seat is a terrorist and will face the consequences

Little CuChulainn

Skylinehead wrote: »

Anyone that kicks the back of my seat is a terrorist and will face the consequences

Seems fair.

jimmy blevins

gramar wrote: »

Well it is a little. A tablet/kindle/laptop are normal things to be bringing on a plane. Barring the exploding galaxy note I don't recall any of these devices being used to blow up any airplanes.

A laptop was used to blow a hole in an Ethiopian jet, luckily it was at a low attitude at the time.

LeeroyJ.

No Nintendo Switch gaming for Muslim countries.

joeysoap

There was certainly a rumour that the Sinai bomb on the Russian a321 was put on the aircraft by ground staff. I am slightly puzzled by this, after security a ground staff person gives a laptop to a passenger, who then checks what the passenger has before boarding? This person could do the transfer in the guise of duty free, is there going to be another check before boarding? The only way this ban can be effectively enforced is by transferring security check to immediately before boarding. Another scenario: two passengers go through security, one travelling to London, one to Dublin. What's to stop them 'exchanging' carry on luggage after security?

Gyalist

February 9. 2017: CEOs of Delta, United and American Hope Trump Will Block Arab Competition

March 20, 2017: US bans larger electronic devices on some flights from Middle East

Coincidence? I don't think so!

Note the massive lobbying effort on behalf ot the Big 3 US carrirers.