Calls for State to build Mosque in Roscommon

Grayson

cocaliquid wrote: »

From what i have seen they only mix with themselves. While Hindus are very friendly and have no problem adapting to western society.

I have loads of friends who are Muslim. For a lot of them I didn't even know they were Muslim until months or years later. Not that it would have made a difference to me. I can't see how anyone living in a big city couldn't know someone who'd Muslim. It'd be fair enough if they lived in a small village and there were none there but then it'd be impossible to say that they "keep to themselves".

I have a feeling that ironically you keep to yourself and don't actually talk to people you think might be Muslim.

Grayson

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Imo they have a lot more rights then people born in ireland whose heritage goes back centuries.

Like the way they can 't vote? Or work? Or the way they had to stay in Mosney?
Direct provisioning was determined to breach the human rights of refugees.
Irish citizens have more rights than refugees. If you think otherwise then you need to read up on the rights of refugees. You'll see that they don't have more than Irish citizens.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Grayson wrote: »

Legally they have far more rights than that.

Wait til the new bill gets signed in...then we are totally f*cked. Our freedom of speech is already seriously oppressed with the blasphemy law...there's a second bill on its way and you won't be able to criticise Islam at all.

Sorry on mobile I can't embed YouTube links.

https://youtu.be/OZPaTyde47I

Widdershins

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Wait til the new bill gets signed in...then we are totally f*cked. Our freedom of speech is already seriously oppressed with the blasphemy law...there's a second bill on its way and you won't be able to criticise Islam at all.

Is that the new hate speech bill? I wasn't able to find the text of that.

donkeykong5

Grayson wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Imo they have a lot more rights then people born in ireland whose heritage goes back centuries.

Like the way they can 't vote? Or work? Or the way they had to stay in Mosney?
Direct provisioning was determined to breach the human rights of refugees.
Irish citizens have more rights than refugees. If you think otherwise then you need to read up on the rights of refugees. You'll see that they don't have more than Irish citizens.

GO and talk to the people sleeping on the streets at night in all major cities in ireland. They are mostly irish people.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Widdershins wrote: »

Is that the new hate speech bill? I wasn't able to find the text of that.

That's the one. I posted a link to an interesting YouTube video there.

We're f*cked.

donkeykong5

Grayson wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Imo they have a lot more rights then people born in ireland whose heritage goes back centuries.

Like the way they can 't vote? Or work? Or the way they had to stay in Mosney?
Direct provisioning was determined to breach the human rights of refugees.
Irish citizens have more rights than refugees. If you think otherwise then you need to read up on the rights of refugees. You'll see that they don't have more than Irish citizens.

They had to stay in mosney..............have you been to mosney...............used to enjoy paying to go there on holidays years ago . But guess what..........?

Widdershins

Hunky Monster wrote: »

That's the one. I posted a link to an interesting YouTube video there.

We're f*cked.

I searched this thread for your name and it gave no search results. Sorry to be a pain but would you mind PM'ing me even the name of the video so I can find out more, please?

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

Like the way they can 't vote? Or work? Or the way they had to stay in Mosney?
Direct provisioning was determined to breach the human rights of refugees.
Irish citizens have more rights than refugees. If you think otherwise then you need to read up on the rights of refugees. You'll see that they don't have more than Irish citizens.

The Syrian refugees aren't in DP centres. The one around here are housed in nice accommodation and seem to receive a good bit of help in various ways. I don't know about arguing over who has more rights but I don't see any failure by the state to provide for their needs and make them comfortable. As this is about a demand for a new mosque funded by the state I think it's fair to say that man's expecting too much.

Grayson

donkeykong5 wrote: »

GO and talk to the people sleeping on the streets at night in all major cities in ireland. They are mostly irish people.

Will they be able to list the rights of refugees and of Irish citizens? Because otherwise that's complete whataboutery. You insisted that refugees have more rights than irish citizens. They simply don't.

That's not to say that homelessness isn't an issue and that our government shouldn't spend more, but it's not an either/or situation. Our government spends billions a year. It also gives loads of tax breaks. To pick money that it spends helping innocent people who are fleeing violence and say that it should be spent elsewhere is silly. Out of all the money the government spends that's the only possible money that could be redirected? If that's the point you were trying to make then you're creating a situation that doesn't exist as a strawman argument.

donkeykong5

Grayson wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

GO and talk to the people sleeping on the streets at night in all major cities in ireland. They are mostly irish people.

Will they be able to list the rights of refugees and of Irish citizens? Because otherwise that's complete whataboutery. You insisted that refugees have more rights than irish citizens. They simply don't.

That's not to say that homelessness isn't an issue and that our government shouldn't spend more, but it's not an either/or situation. Our government spends billions a year. It also gives loads of tax breaks. To pick money that it spends helping innocent people who are fleeing violence and say that it should be spent elsewhere is silly. Out of all the money the government spends that's the only possible money that could be redirected? If that's the point you were trying to make then you're creating a situation that doesn't exist as a strawman argument.

No not at all. I am saying it the way it is. And what I see going on day by day. Look after irish people FIRST.

donkeykong5

donkeykong5 wrote: »

No not at all. I am saying it the way it is. And what I see going on day by day. Look after irish people FIRST.

Do you think the state should accommodate homeless people in direct provision?
Is it a good idea to move all homeless people into the likes of mosney? We could give them 19 euro or so a week pocket money?

byhookorbycrook

Grayson wrote: »

Thanks for fisking. It makes the post so much harder to reply to without fisking.

96% of national schools in Ireland are under religious patronage. 90% are under catholic patronage. In these schools children are taught catholic dogma and doctrine. They are prepared for their first communion and confirmations during class time. Religion permeates the schools. These schools can refuse anyone who isn't catholic on the grounds that they're not catholic. They force non Catholics to sit in, but not participate in catholic lessons. And they are all state funded. The state will build and staff a catholic school for free. The state has spent billions doing this over the years.

The nuts thing is that in any discussion about the state funding of catholic education the argument is normally Catholics who are for it and atheists against it. There's no-one who actually denies it exists. Except you.

I am intrigued, how do schools force children to "sit in?" Parents are quite welcome to withdraw their children. There aren't spare teachers in school to be pulled out to remove children at religion time, but that doesn't equate with " forcing" children to be in the room.

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

The Syrian refugees aren't in DP centres. The one around here are housed in nice accommodation and seem to receive a good bit of help in various ways. I don't know about arguing over who has more rights but I don't see any failure by the state to provide for their needs and make them comfortable. As this is about a demand for a new mosque funded by the state I think it's fair to say that man's expecting too much.

I agreed with that pages back, near the beginning, so you might not have noticed it. It's a stupid request. I also pointed out that I don't think the state should subsidise any religion and that includes renovating their buildings or paying for religious education (which we still do unfortunately).

btw, there are syrian refugees in Mosney. I just googled and found articles from January this year. The process remains the same as it's always been. A refugees requests asylum and is placed in direct provisioning until their application is processed.

Apparently there's an EU directive which states that refugees who are awaiting processing for more than a year can work but Ireland is one of two countries which disallows that.

It may be that particular groups have had their applications expedited since you've seen them living in the community. However it may be that they arrived years ago and spent years in direct provisioning.

Grayson

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I am intrigued, how do schools force children to "sit in?" Parents are quite welcome to withdraw their children. There aren't spare teachers in school to be pulled out to remove children at religion time, but that doesn't equate with " forcing" children to be in the room.

Over 90% of schools in the country are catholic. That means that an awful lot of people won't have any other options. They can't just remove their children from the schools because there's nowhere else to go.

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

I agreed with that pages back, near the beginning, so you might not have noticed it. It's a stupid request. I also pointed out that I don't think the state should subsidise any religion and that includes renovating their buildings or paying for religious education (which we still do unfortunately).

btw, there are syrian refugees in Mosney. I just googled and found articles from January this year. The process remains the same as it's always been. A refugees requests asylum and is placed in direct provisioning until their application is processed.

Apparently there's an EU directive which states that refugees who are awaiting processing for more than a year can work but Ireland is one of two countries which disallows that.

It may be that particular groups have had their applications expedited since you've seen them living in the community. However it may be that they arrived years ago and spent years in direct provisioning.

Ok well in their case I remember reading the result of a FOI request some applied to the county council, which referred to preparations to be made prior to them arriving in Ireland. I do not know why there are some Syrians in Direct Provision..

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Widdershins wrote: »

I searched this thread for your name and it gave no search results. Sorry to be a pain but would you mind PM'ing me even the name of the video so I can find out more, please?

I posted it in my first post above that one.

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

Over 90% of schools in the country are catholic. That means that an awful lot of people won't have any other options. They can't just remove their children from the schools because there's nowhere else to go.

They might sit and wait in the same room, like some children wait it out if they're not participating in PE class. That's what I did during religion classes.

donkeykong5

bubblypop wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

No not at all. I am saying it the way it is. And what I see going on day by day. Look after irish people FIRST.

Do you think the state should accommodate homeless people in direct provision?
Is it a good idea to move all homeless people into the likes of mosney? We could give them 19 euro or so a week pocket money?

I think mosney that used to be a holiday camp for irish families to have their holidays in is now still full of muselims/foreigners. So don't really get your point .

donkeykong5

donkeykong5 wrote: »

I think mosney that used to be a holiday camp for irish families to have their holidays in is now still full of muselims/foreigners. So don't really get your point .

Well you think the Irish state should look after the Irish homeless first right?
So, should they house the homeless up in mosney and give them food and lodgings and 19 euro a week pocket money?

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

They might sit and wait in the same room, like some children wait it out if they're not participating in PE class. That's what I did during religion classes.

Think of it this way, imagine if 90% of the schools were Muslim. They taught the Muslim religion and had daily prayers. Clerics would stop by, be treated like royalty, and lecture the children. And you had to send your 4 year old to that school. Everyday they have to sit through classes that they're told they don't have to participate in. They sit there and listen to all the stories. They learn how to sing religious songs about the prophet and listen to important people tell them how it's evil to eat pork and drink alcohol.

At the best they'd be confused.

The article I linked to earlier, which someone quoted, describes atheists children being described as bad influences and Muslim girls having to sit through masses.

I don't think religion and education should be mixed. If the catholic church want their own schools, let them pay for them. If the church wants to teach another generation it's catechism, let them pay for it.
As it is the state is sponsoring religious education and they've spent billions on it. It shouldn't be the states job to pay for teachers to reach a particular religion.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Widdershins wrote: »

They might sit and wait in the same room, like some children wait it out if they're not participating in PE class. That's what I did during religion classes.

I did the same. And nothing alienates you more than not being part.

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

Think of it this way, imagine if 90% of the schools were Muslim. They taught the Muslim religion and had daily prayers. Clerics would stop by, be treated like royalty, and lecture the children. And you had to send your 4 year old to that school. Everyday they have to sit through classes that they're told they don't have to participate in. They sit there and listen to all the stories. They learn how to sing religious songs about the prophet and listen to important people tell them how it's evil to eat pork and drink alcohol.

At the best they'd be confused.

The article I linked to earlier, which someone quoted, describes atheists children being described as bad influences and Muslim girls having to sit through masses.

I don't think religion and education should be mixed. If the catholic church want their own schools, let them pay for them. If the church wants to teach another generation it's catechism, let them pay for it.
As it is the state is sponsoring religious education and they've spent billions on it. It shouldn't be the states job to pay for teachers to reach a particular religion.

I don't think religion and education should be mixed. I didn't read the report. I presume said school was sanctioned in some way. That is an extraordinary portrayal of a religion class and not comparable to any I have ever been privy to. I would ascertain the nature of the classes, the format of the lessons and the attitude of the teacher, before sending a child to such a school, or make alternative arrangements.
The sad thing is that you've just described is not particularly unusual, and has been exposed in undercover recordings of Islamic schools in recent times.

donkeykong5

bubblypop wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

I think mosney that used to be a holiday camp for irish families to have their holidays in is now still full of muselims/foreigners. So don't really get your point .

Well you think the Irish state should look after the Irish homeless first right?
So, should they house the homeless up in mosney and give them food and lodgings and 19 euro a week pocket money?

Omg. Read my post. Mosney is full. That's why they are off to roscommon now.

Widdershins

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I did the same. And nothing alienates you more than not being part.

I'm not remotely alienated, the lessons were religious in little more than name and conducted as rapidly as possible.

donkeykong5

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Omg. Read my post. Mosney is full. That's why they are off to roscommon now.

Not answering the question.
Do you think the state should put homeless people in direct provision?

Widdershins

The state's going to put homeless people into prefabs.

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

I don't think religion and education should be mixed. I didn't read the report. I presume said school was sanctioned in some way. That is an extraordinary portrayal of a religion class and not comparable to any I have ever been privy to. I would ascertain the nature of the classes, the format of the lessons and the attitude of the teacher, before sending a child to such a school, or make alternative arrangements.
The sad thing is that you've just described is not particularly unusual, and has been exposed in undercover recordings of Islamic schools in recent times.

As I said earlier in my primary school we had two protestant girls (a total of 4 non Catholics in the school) and they had to sit outside the class during religion class. During our music class we learned hymns. Every Friday we would have to say the rosary followed by this kind of stuff.. We did in class preparations for communion and confirmation.

In my secondary school we had daily lessons in dogma and doctrine. I can say the Hail Mary and our father in Latin, Irish, French and English. Every class started with a prayer. There were regular masses. There were day long retreats. We had people who would come and give us lectures including youth defence.

That might seem unusual to you but it was normal for the area I grew up in. I'd imagine it's the same in a lot of places. Strangely the only school I attended as a child that had no religious education was in the middle east.

Edit: you should read the link I put up earlier. It's interesting. Apparently there are children's maths books with religious questions in them.

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

As I said earlier in my primary school we had two protestant girls (a total of 4 non Catholics in the school) and they had to sit outside the class during religion class. During our music class we learned hymns. Every Friday we would have to say the rosary followed by this kind of stuff.. We did in class preparations for communion and confirmation.

In my secondary school we had daily lessons in dogma and doctrine. I can say the Hail Mary and our father in Latin, Irish, French and English. Every class started with a prayer. There were regular masses. There were day long retreats. We had people who would come and give us lectures including youth defence.

That might seem unusual to you but it was normal for the area I grew up in. I'd imagine it's the same in a lot of places. Strangely the only school I attended as a child that had no religious education was in the middle east.

Edit: you should read the link I put up earlier. It's interesting. Apparently there are children's maths books with religious questions in them.

It might be the difference a decade or so makes. I don't know (and I'm not asking) your age. However, if this is still going on then it must be dealt with!

donkeykong5

bubblypop wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Omg. Read my post. Mosney is full. That's why they are off to roscommon now.

Not answering the question.
Do you think the state should put homeless people in direct provision?

I think ireland should look after the Irish first. Then second the likes of the agitator activist muslim from longford. Who is dictating to people who have heritage in roscommon what he wants and intends to do with their county.