Calls for State to build Mosque in Roscommon

Jimmy Garlic

Grayson wrote: »

Resettlement makes sense since there are occasions where a refugee can't go home. Syria could last for another decade. Even if it doesn't the country may not be in any state to move back to, especially for families. You can't house millions in tent cities until then.

Most of urban Syria is now out of the hands of the head hunters, the place will have to be rebuilt. Plenty of work to be done rebuilding the place. You think millions should be imported into Europe. How many million?... and where is all the cash to maintain millions of people going to come from? Last time I checked Ireland didn't have any hand act or part in what's going on in Syria and Libya etc. Don't see why we should have to cough up to import people into Ireland at a cost of a couple of hundred thousand quid per person per year. I would like to see that money used to help people rebuild their lives in their home countries. Importing millions of people is unbridled insanity.

Jack the Stripper

Riding is at an all time low in Roscommon.

Grayson

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Most of urban Syria is now out of the hands of the head hunters, the place will have to be rebuilt. Plenty of work to be done rebuilding the place. You think millions should be imported into Europe. How many million?... and where is all the cash to maintain millions of people going to come from? Last time I checked Ireland didn't have any hand act or part in what's going on in Syria and Libya etc. Don't see why we should have to cough up to import people into Ireland at a cost of a couple of hundred thousand quid per person per year. I would like to see that money used to help people rebuild their lives in their home countries. Importing millions of people is unbridled insanity.

I never said specifically Europe. You're saying that. Although I do think Europe has the capability to take many in.

The question is do these people need help, can we help them and how do we do it best.

And I've never thought "Am I personally responsible" before helping someone. That's a nasty way to live life. Did I cause that tsunami? nah, fcuk em.

You did say you'd like to see money spent on rebuilding their country. I'd love that too. It's just not possible at the moment and might not be for a long time. To be fair, I doubt very many of the millions who have been displaced internally, or externally, wanted to do so. Most of them would move home if they knew it was safe to.

Widdershins

Victor wrote: »

Yeah, this is a Roman Catholic dominated dump, barely 25 years from the Middle Ages, which funds church car parks, parish halls and religious schools and hospitals.

The nice thing is anyone who dislikes it can choose one of the non denominational options, or work out an alternative for religion class for their child ( which might indeed involve remaining on their chair, which some would call ''sitting through'' it), you can be treated by a secular medic, or if you think it's such a ''dump'' you can even...Leave?

Lt Dan

Zebra3 wrote: »

Maybe because of their hypocritical views.

Certain foreign sports good, certain foreign sports bad.

Meant to promote Irish music, opportunity to cash in with foreign music in their stadia, no bother.

What utter rubbish

They removed the ban on members playing foreign sport in 1971. Why? It failed miserably. Some very prominent GAA players were known to play socccer and or Rugby. Get over it!

The last remaining issue was the playing of Garrison games in GAA grounds. Rather understandable that the GAA sought to protect their own interests and let the professional sports groups look after their own problems. Not like Dublin Soccer clubs wanted to share grounds with other clubs anyway. (Nor could they as there is a strong scumbag element within set of supporters of certain clubs. They must be on first name terms with the Gardaí Response Unit by now)

If it were not for Croke Park, Irish Soccer fans and Irish Rugby fans might have had to go to England to watch their "home" games while Landsdowne was being built. If Ireland gets this Rugby World Cup , some of the games shall be played in GAA grounds!

GAA have acted to suit and protect the interests of the GAA, like any proper organisation would. So, unless you have an alternative understanding as to the word "hypocritical" that no one has every heard, you are waffling.

Lt Dan

Grayson wrote: »

Do you really have to reply to every single sentance one at a time. Is it an attempt at trolling?

You understand what Trolling means? Clearly not!

The fact that you Can't try to deal with each point says a lot more and we both know that you want to. You are a spoofer and you have been found out.

Grayson wrote: »

I said I'm not going to reply to your rants about islam

Did not stop you from getting into rants about Catholicism though or what you perceived to be Catholicism.

You were asked what is contained in the so called so called Catholic dogma taught in classes in 2017. Very fair and valid question. You failed to answer because, you haven't a clue

You were asked about the lack of the public response to Ruairi Quinn's efforts to change the status of schools in Ireland, you ran away from that too.

You ignored that fact that you lied when you said that pupils were "forced" to sit in class while religious studies were being held.

Grayson wrote: »

and said this isn't the place for it. Obviously you can't let it go

Let go of what? You made some idiotic statements, I replied,in detail.

You are returning, well trying. That is debate but you are trying to shut people down because of your inadequacies of sticking to topics that you actually know what you are talking about.

Can 't let go? You made a number of substantial statements that you have failed to back up. You should be called on that.

Grayson wrote: »

. I'm not going to continue to discuss that with you and drive the thread off topic. There's loads of other places where you can post your hatred.

Translation : "I have come to realize that I am talking to someone , who, due to their Profession, is in a superior position to know what he is talking about and better stop now before I am embarrass myself. "

"Hate"? What hate? Predictable garbage to raise the Hate and R word when you want to shut down the discussion. But you are happy to make clear Anti Catholic statements and not back them up.

You haven't a prayer (excuse the pun) Sunny Jim on that issue. You think that because you know a few people that makes you enlightened and a know it all. But you keep keep telling everyone who cares what a great bunch of lads them Muslims are while we witness the contrary in Europe and the Middle East. Ignorance is bliss.

Grayson wrote: »

Back on topic(ish)...

You said that I'd struggle to find a school that taught catholic dogma or doctrine. 90% of national schools do. That's nearly all of them.

You got reading problems I did not say that . I asked you to enlighten us as to what is contained in this so called Catholic Dogma in schools in 2017. What are the teachers saying in their classes.

Grayson wrote: »

In your most recent reply you said "Lies. No one is forced to sit in. They are free to leave the class. ".
Did you even bother reading the link I supplied where parents describe how their non catholic children have to sit through religion classes in national schools.

The children are not forced to sit in the class. What one or two schools did is against the Department's own policy on this issue. One school , that you are relying on , hardly nation wide. You can be sure that such a practice does not happen in the schools any more

Grayson wrote: »

I supplied a link that backs up my point and you decide to call me a liar.
It doesn't matter if parents want catholic schools, the fact is that the catholic schools exist.

It does matter. If parents did not want Catholic schools, there would no longer be Catholic schools.

Grayson wrote: »

They do teach catholic dogma and they are paid for by the state.

You were asked what is contained in the said "dogma" since you are all knowing. What are teachers teaching the students in 2017 about what Catholic values mean to day?

What is actually discussed in religion classes. ?

I will tell you what it is not, it ain't what was thought before 1980's !

Lt Dan

Grayson wrote: »

Millions of arabs of all creeds have been slaughtered. Refusing to save someone because of their religion is stupid. Can you imagine if we prioritised anything else like that?
Imagine if there are homeless Christians, Atheists, Buddhists and Muslims on the streets of Dublin but we only help the Christians? We leave the rest on the streets?

Our priority should be people who need help. Sure we can prioritise amongst them. People who need medical help, children etc. But not by race, ethnicity or religion.

Actually, we are obliged to help those immigrants who are Persecuted or would be persecuted on the grounds of religion, political opinion,ethnicity, nationality or a particular social membership group (eg Gays, women , disabled etc) because due to that fear of persecution they are unable or unwilling to seek the protection of their own country

"those in need" also includes economic migrants. They (economic migrants) have no legal right to be in Ireland, unless they have work permits or are EU citizens or family members of same. If not, we have no obligation to them. Being from a poor country is not persecution, unless that poverty was forced upon them by their Country because of their religion, political opinion,ethnicity, nationality or a particular social membership group (eg MDC in Zimbabwe supporters who had State Aid cut by Zanu PF because they opposed Zanu PF)

Every country has to prioritize their own people first, hence why we have immigration laws. You can't freely walk into Australia or America and work without Legal permission to do so.

"Imagine if there are homeless Christians, Atheists, Buddhists and Muslims on the streets of Dublin but we only help the Christians? We leave the rest on the streets? "

Actually, we ought to be checking what their immigration status is. If illegal immigrants , remove them from the country, provided that they can be safely sent home. Economic migrants are suppose to work after all.

If they are refugees or EU/Irish Citizens , their religion etc is irrelevant, they will be treated the same as the native on the street and taken care of. (actually, their legal status is irrelevant in the eyes of the volunteer)

Lt Dan

Grayson wrote: »

That's a different issue though. It's not should be discriminate who we help based on religion. It's how do we get the most value for money or how do we help the most people. And that's a valid discussion.

Also, half of the initial group of 80 refugees arriving are children.

Resettlement makes sense since there are occasions where a refugee can't go home. Syria could last for another decade. Even if it doesn't the country may not be in any state to move back to, especially for families. You can't house millions in tent cities until then.

Not really a different issue. If the person on the street has no legal right to be in Ireland , he should be removed from Ireland. Many of the people referred to by Jimmy Garlic are not genuine asylum seekers and the government reports on this (all available on line) vouch for that.

Why am I referring to asylum seekers. ? They are the class of people who make up most of the Muslim, Buddhist etc population.

If they (Muslim, Buddhists etc) are not asylum seekers but are LEGAL economic migrants, they have an obligation to remain economically active. Being homeless suggests that they are not complying with the rules. (It gets more trickier if EU law (via family to EU citizens) gets involved on that point)

It makes more sense getting value for money to deal with those who have a right to be in Ireland .

(No one is questioning the genuine case of Syrians, before you start)

Your Face

The state shouldn't encourage religion.

jmayo

Billy86 wrote: »

Love your effort to try and take offense at nothing though. Pretty gas. And edgy, very edgy.

I take it you'll be happy for your taxes to go toward these refugees being taxi'd to and from everywhere? I mean you're saying they have that option, so that's all that can be assumed from it.

Ah come on Billy, you should lighten up a bit.
You're not in Toronto anymore.

Billy86 wrote: »

Nah, you have to draw a line on state involvement in religion. Give one an inch in terms of government spending and every one of them (and many of their followers) will try to take a mile. I'm all for different cultures, religions etc in Ireland but the state shouldn't be funding these institutions for a number of reasons, not least that if you give something to one all of the others will cry foul, persecution etc until they get given the same amount... and if just one of them finds a loophole or some way to get a tiny bit extra, the others will again all make noise until they get it too, and so on and so on.

Maybe you are finally seeing the light.
A fair few of us have tried to tell you that this is the tip of the iceberg and once population starts increasing demands start increasing.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

...
But that's not even necessary either. Here in Cavan town a private house beside the hospital is rented and used as a Mosque/school/drop in centre. Has been for at least a decade. Landlord (Irish lad) is delighted with the set up.
They have recently received some funds from abroad and bought a building from the receivers for use as a cultural centre and mosque, but its slow going as it seems to be worked on by the congregation themselves on a voluntary basis.

We can expect some nice fundamentalist learning coming out of Cavan down the road.

Grayson wrote: »

On a sunny day this is lovely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lough_Key_Forest_Park

But as a whole the county is pretty boring. There's feck all to do there.
I do feel a bit sorry for the refugees. Unless they have cars or travel passes then they're effectively stuck in a small town in the middle of nowhere. It must be stupidly boring. I say this as a former culchie myself.
Having said that, I'd imagine they prefer safe & warm to being in Syria or stuck in some of those refugee camps.

Don't try disavow your roots.

As many of my Dublin acquaintances and colleagues would say "once a culchie always a culchie."

Lt Dan

Victor wrote: »

Yeah, this is a Roman Catholic dominated dump, barely 25 years from the Middle Ages, which funds church car parks, parish halls and religious schools and hospitals.

If you haven't already, perhaps refer to these sites, if you feel that way inclined

https://www.aerlingus.com/html/en-US/home.html
http://news.ryanair.com/ops/maintenance/?IXF
https://www.britishairways.com/travel/home/public/en_ie
http://www.irishferries.com/ie-en/to-britain-from-ireland/
http://www.poferries.com/en/portal
https://eurolines.buseireann.ie/
http://www.etihad.com/en-ie/

Read the papers in the last few weeks, haven't heard any Archbishop giving a long winded Statement about the affairs of the Nation. Word is, SFA are turning up for mass services.............

Why didn't the State not buy the RCC owned land that now houses the schools and hospitals?

jmayo

Victor wrote: »

Yeah, this is a Roman Catholic dominated dump, barely 25 years from the Middle Ages, which funds church car parks, parish halls and religious schools and hospitals.

There is an awful lot of self loathing in this country.

Yes the catholic church had inordinate amount of power up to say 1980s and then in 1992 the bishop casey affair was kinda the damn buster that start opening the floodgates.

But nowadays you will find most people don't give them a second thought to the catholic church and it's teachings.
Yeah people send their kids to "catholic schools" and get them baptised, confimed, etc in order to play along.
But how many of them actually attend mass or church services regularly ?

Usually I find that people who have such a loathing for so called "catholic dominated" Ireland have a fondness for importing loads of people who believe in an even more regressive and backwards religion and culture that makes your so called catholic middle ages look like 1960s San Francisco.

Billy86

jmayo wrote: »

Ah come on Billy, you should lighten up a bit.
You're not in Toronto anymore.

Maybe you are finally seeing the light.
A fair few of us have tried to tell you that this is the tip of the iceberg and once population starts increasing demands start increasing.

I've always been against the state sponsoring or propping up any religion, so no change there. At the same time as not wanting to discriminate in favour of any particular religions I don't agree with discriminating against any particular religions either. If they want to believe in their sky fairies in peace, have at it.

Should be back in Toronto toward the end of the year where the population is a lot higher than here and somehow it's not fallen under the proxy rule of the House of Saud.

fiachr_a

jmayo wrote: »

Usually I find that people who have such a loathing for so called "catholic dominated" Ireland have a fondness for importing loads of people who believe in an even more regressive and backwards religion and culture that makes your so called catholic middle ages look like 1960s San Francisco.

Most crap towns out West will be full of Muslims in a few decades. Unlike the gays in SF, they won't integrate.

222233

SILVAMAN wrote: »

A Longford based Pakistani business man has called for the government to build a mosque in Roscommon, for the newly arrived Syrians. He apparently claims that to be there in Ballaghadereen is a "punishment " for them, and that they are being discriminated against, etc.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/calls-for-roscommon-council-to-build-mosque-1.3017962
Fcuk that nonsense, I say. Let him put his money where his big mouth is and fund one himself. He might take the time to acquaint himself with our culture and laws. This isn't some Islamic dominated dump, rooted in the Middle Ages, which funds mosques, or any other type of religious building.

I find that "punishment" statement to be super offensive to the people who live in that town, I'm sure they are perfectly happy and love their home place. Sure can't they travel to a mosque somewhere else

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Ballaghaderreen is an awful hole though.

222233

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Ballaghaderreen is an awful hole though.

Granted, I'm sure it's better than where these vulnerable women, children and men were taken from.

Nekarsulm

fiachr_a wrote: »

Most crap towns out West will be full of Muslims in a few decades. Unlike the gays in SF, they won't integrate.

I presume your definition of "crap towns out west" starts at Clonskeah !!

DanielODonnell

No need for mosques on Christian land, plenty of room in their houses for worship.

Calypso 1

Here we go ,we give people a safe haven, and within weeks this guy is looking for us to build a mosque

BrokenArrows

Under no circumstances should the state be paying for a mosque, church or any other religious place of worship.

And I totally agree that Syrians or any other refugees should be placed outside of Dublin in rural areas where the cost of housing will be less and they can increase the population in these areas.

Capt'n Midnight

Zaph wrote: »

If the state funded the building of churches and places of worship for other denominations, then I'd have no problem with them doing so for a mosque. But they don't, if a religious denomination wants to build a church, synagogue, temple, meeting house or whatever they have to stump up for it themselves. So I fail to see how this is any different.

TBH the state doesn't even build schools here.

Billy86 wrote: »

Nah, you have to draw a line on state involvement in religion.

The referendum on the fifth amendment to do that won with 84.38% of the vote.

Donal55

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Under no circumstances should the state be paying for a mosque, church or any other religious place of worship.

And I totally agree that Syrians or any other refugees should be placed outside of Dublin in rural areas where the cost of housing will be less and they can increase the population in these areas.

Aren't all these refugees : architects, barristers, chiropractors,doctors,.......Vets, watchmakers, X ray inspectors and zoologists.

Why would they be confined to rural areas when all these good jobs are in Dublin?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Absolutely not. Let them fund it themselves

Mongfinder General

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Under no circumstances should the state be paying for a mosque, church or any other religious place of worship.

And I totally agree that Syrians or any other refugees should be placed outside of Dublin in rural areas where the cost of housing will be less and they can increase the population in these areas.

They been placed close enough to the border in the hope that they fcuk off across it and join the Syrian community in the U.K.

Dr Martin

Donal55 wrote: »

Aren't all these refugees : architects, barristers, chiropractors,doctors,.......Vets, watchmakers, X ray inspectors and zoologists.

Why would they be confined to rural areas when all these good jobs are in Dublin?

Because Irish Times readers like to see diveristy on their tv screens, not next door

donkeykong5

After what happened in london 2 days ago. I as an Irish taxpayer would prefer if they and their mosque didn't come here. !

Lt Dan

Grayson wrote: »

Do you really have to reply to every single sentance one at a time. Is it an attempt at trolling?

I said I'm not going to reply to your rants about islam and said this isn't the place for it. Obviously you can't let it go. I'm not going to continue to discuss that with you and drive the thread off topic. There's loads of other places where you can post your hatred.


Back on topic(ish)...

You said that I'd struggle to find a school that taught catholic dogma or doctrine. 90% of national schools do. That's nearly all of them.

In your most recent reply you said "Lies. No one is forced to sit in. They are free to leave the class. ".
Did you even bother reading the link I supplied where parents describe how their non catholic children have to sit through religion classes in national schools. I supplied a link that backs up my point and you decide to call me a liar.
It doesn't matter if parents want catholic schools, the fact is that the catholic schools exist. They do teach catholic dogma and they are paid for by the state.

I strongly recommend that you educate yourself on what the word "Trolling" means. You made several statements, which deserve to be called out on. That ain't trolling, bro. Secondly considering the offensive statement made by a Pakistan Muslim , the subject of the article, it looks like you haven't a clue as to what the topic is about!!!!

What rant on Islam? Screaming "rant" and "trolling" won't work anymore. Unless you are able to back up your statements, every statement, and not pee and moan when challenged, perhaps refrain from making such statements. Most of the statements, I should add, you have failed and refused to address ie what is contained in Catholic "dogma" in Schools today, 2017 A.D.

The only thing anyone can see is an Anti Catholic rant from YOU. Some other idiot tried to attack the GAA while they were at it as well , and failed ,gloriously. These discussion forums are not a place where one can comment without being challenged, nor should they be.

Unlike, me, you have not got a clue as to who is coming into this country! (I did say however, that the undesirable trouble makers are, so far, a "tiny minority" but they are being watched_

"drive the thread off topic."

The topic is about a Pakistan Muslim , living in Longford, trying to cause trouble demanding for facilities, which the intended recipients did not ask for, and the said Muslim making idiotic allegations of discrimination , despite the fact that there are perfectly good facilities 15 -20 miles away in the next town. He stated that sending these people to a town in Roscommon, would be "punishment"!!! That is a lot of "hate" there.

You went off topic waffling about the Catholic Church. You started it.

Don't start something that you can not finish.

Re: I will repeat myself again, I will even point out my own personal observations from my old secondary school circa 2001 (our town had a primary school catering for Protestants) where there was one Sunni Muslim , a Jevoah's witness and two Protestants in the class.

The Muslim and JW and one of the Protestants left the class group and headed down to the Assembly when religious class (which was far from Catholic dogma) was on. No one batted an eyelid. Each religious class was once a week, a double class ie 1 hour 20 minutes.

You are holding onto an article for dear life, which by the way, reporters failed to contact the school for their side of the story. A few ignorant schools does not make up the majority. You will also have parents who like causing trouble that (a) don't want the child in the class - perfectly fair enough but (b) refuses to suggest or ask if the child could be taken out of the class during the religious class

You also refuse to deal with Ruairi Quinn's FAILED attempt (not his fault) to improve the situation when he consulted with parents on this matter.


FOR THE FOURTH TIME. ENLIGHTEN US AS TO WHAT CATHOLIC DOGMA IS TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS TODAY IN 2017

"It doesn't matter if parents want catholic schools, the fact is that the catholic schools exist."

Well it does matter. Who do you think is the State? Religious studies is part of "Education" in Irish law

Lt Dan

Donal55 wrote: »

Aren't all these refugees : architects, barristers, chiropractors,doctors,.......Vets, watchmakers, X ray inspectors and zoologists.

Why would they be confined to rural areas when all these good jobs are in Dublin?

The are refugees, not economic workers. Access to work, at this present time ought not to be a priority right now , if their applications are only being processed right now.(thus having no right to work, IF, that is the case)

You can not lump everything into Dublin either

Once they are granted actual Refugee Status, they are then permitted to work etc, and are perfectly entitled to move to Dublin and find work in said posts that you specified

Microdot

This is only the start, next they will be driving the locals out so the can have the place for them self's.