€300M Investment into Waterford City

BBM77

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Interesting article on how the Guggenheim Museum and all the associated urban renewal initiates transformed Bilbao; https://www.greeneuropeanjournal.eu/the-guggenheim-effect-pride-and-prejudices/
The key to it's success was the once in a blue moon alignment of city, regional & national government together with private sector investment and heavy local input. All their ducks were lined up in a row. Everyone in the region wanted it done, every arm of the federal government bought into it.
We are so far from that scenario, t'would make you weep.

Wish the council would just get a loan from the European Investment Bank or somewhere for the rest of what they need and let the government go f&% themselves. Like who honestly did not get a sinking feeling when they heard the north quays redevelopment needed money from the government. For Christ sake 150 million is a tiny amount of money in government terms, it is around 0.2% of government spending in 2019. And the north quays only needs it spread over a few years. Would make you weep indeed.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote:

Wish the council would just get a loan from the European Investment Bank or somewhere for the rest of what they need and let the government go f&% themselves. Like who honestly did not get a sinking feeling when they heard the north quays redevelopment needed money from the government. For Christ sake 150 million is a tiny amount of money in government terms, it is around 0.2% of government spending in 2019. And the north quays only needs it spread over a few years. Would make you weep indeed.

Unfortunately we ve constrained our governments so much in terms of money creation and spending, we re getting stuck, they have limited abilities to do so, apparently we re all suppose to rejoice we re in surplus again of a few hundred million! The eib is probably a good idea, with interest rates so low, and possibly heading into negative territory

Deiseen

This has all gone very quiet.

I was hopeful before, but I am now extremely worried about the ability of the developers to get this project over the line (or even past the starting line).

I think we all expected some delays but the delay on the planning application is just beyond ridiculous at this stage and looks extremely bad.

road_high

Deiseen wrote: »

This has all gone very quiet.

I was hopeful before, but I am now extremely worried about the ability of the developers to get this project over the line (or even past the starting line).

I think we all expected some delays but the delay on the planning application is just beyond ridiculous at this stage and looks extremely bad.

I've only been following this a little but the project seems very big to do all in one go- why can't they do it it smaller phases- I'd imagine that would be far easier to draw down the required funding rather than one big initial chunk as it seems to be?

Harry Palmr

Phased basis sounds fine in theory but it's a tight site which has pinch points on either end and water down one side. If say the main retail zone were the first completed (commercial logic would suggest that would be first) it would be a very unpleasant "destination shopping experience" while the transport hub was being constructed on the north flank of same and then the conference centre and then the living accomodation after that (or whichever sequence was chosen).

vriesmays

What's going to happen next month when the investors pull out.

tonc76

vriesmays wrote: »

What's going to happen next month when the investors pull out.

with any luck they'll bring you with them

gobo99

vriesmays wrote: »

What's going to happen next month when the investors pull out.

It's a pity your father didn't pull out.

jelutong

Why would anybody thank that post?

DLS_75

Because trolling a troll is a victimless crime.

debok

jelutong wrote: »

Why would anybody thank that post?

Have a read back thru that lads previous posts and his alias before that. That's why people are thanking it

Harry Palmr

jelutong wrote: »

Why would anybody thank that post?

vriesmays and his previous boards account consist of nothing but knocking copy about Waterford, esp the North Quays development

vriesmays

Time for a bit of reality:

https://waterford-news.ie/2019/10/23/transport-department-has-no-north-quay-funding-application/

Harry Palmr

Did you bother to read that article?

vriesmays

Yes, they're waiting to move the train station once they get a new mortuary beside the new cardiac unit when the planes arrive for the local airport after the university gets built. Then the North Quays development can go ahead with a live TV spectacular featuring the Spraoi and Gillespie Sisters.

debok

vriesmays wrote: »

Yes, they're waiting to move the train station once they get a new mortuary beside the new cardiac unit when the planes arrive for the local airport after the university gets built. Then the North Quays development can go ahead with a live TV spectacular featuring the Spraoi and Gillespie Sisters.

This what I don't get about you really. Everything you pointed out in your mocking above is what the area is looking for. So you acknowledge that these things are needed here yet you mock any attempt at trying to get them. What happened you in Waterford quietfella? Let it out man

debok

vriesmays wrote: »

Yes, they're waiting to move the train station once they get a new mortuary beside the new cardiac unit when the planes arrive for the local airport after the university gets built. Then the North Quays development can go ahead with a live TV spectacular featuring the Spraoi and Gillespie Sisters.

Gillespie sisters?

coastwatch

Maybe it's time to look at opening Ferrybank Shopping Centre, one of Ireland's largest, it's already built, and just 500 metres from the NQ.

vriesmays

debok wrote: »

Gillespie sisters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGcqvI5x9iE

debok

vriesmays wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGcqvI5x9iE

That's alright was wondering why you were bringing IRA bombers into the thread. There the only Gillespie sisters I ever heard of

Harry Palmr

coastwatch wrote: »

Maybe it's time to look at opening Ferrybank Shopping Centre, one of Ireland's largest, it's already built, and just 500 metres from the NQ.

It's empty bar the library for a reason.

Aquos76

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It's empty bar the library for a reason.

And what’s the reason?

Harry Palmr

As far as I know no one can be found to pay the rates for that floor space in that location with Aldi just up the road.

vriesmays

The only thing Waterford's definitely getting is another direct provision.

coastwatch

Harry Palmr wrote: »

As far as I know no one can be found to pay the rates for that floor space in that location with Aldi just up the road.

So opening the already built Ferrybank Shopping Centre isn't commercially viable, but a new shopping development, 500 meters away on the NQ will thrive?

wakka12

Ferry bank failed because its outside the centre and doesnt provide anything that would draw people the extra bit out to it. This will at least be just on the edge of the city centre, but I think making it a shopping centre is still a really bad idea. Sadly i mistakenly thought the era of shopping centres in ireland had ended

Aquos76

Ferrybank failed because of Dunnes Stores and no one else, they agreed to be the anchor tenants prior to the builder commencing this development, the recession hit then and they refused to take up their units in the centre when it was completed.

Dunnes was to be the anchor tenant of a new shopping centre, Ferrybank, being built on the south Kilkenny and Waterford border during the boom.

In July 2007, Dunnes agreed to pay €37.5 million for the construction of the anchor store at Ferrybank. The centre was completed in 2008 at a reported cost of €100 million, however there was no sign of Dunnes – and its doors remained closed.

There was also no sign of the cash that the retailer had agreed to contribute, and Ferrybank developer Deerland Construction, owned by businessman Derry McPhilips, took the company to the High Court.

Dunnes eventually handed over €20 million to the developer on the court’s order.

However, the run-in wasn’t finished. In 2013, Deerland applied to the local council for planning permission for the retention of basic items at the anchor store, including four windows.

Dunnes Stores objected to the inclusion of the four windows and, when planning permission was granted, it appealed to An Bord Pleanála. When the planning body upheld the decision, the retailer took a judicial review case.

In the judgment for that case, the judge found that in twist, Dunnes had no substantive issue with the alterations.
It was found that Dunnes raised the objections so that it could delay its obligation to fit out the anchor store in Ferrybank. The case was thrown out, but Ferrybank remains deserted.

The reason Dunnes we’re trying to delay was because they didn’t want Tesco taking the unit instead. There’s a long running battle with Dunnes trying to keep Tesco out of Kilkenny.

invara

Aquos76 wrote: »

Ferrybank failed because of Dunnes Stores and no one else, they agreed to be the anchor tenants prior to the builder commencing this development, the recession hit then and they refused to take up their units in the centre when it was completed.



The reason Dunnes we’re trying to delay was because they didn’t want Tesco taking the unit instead. There’s a long running battle with Dunnes trying to keep Tesco out of Kilkenny.

Not 100% sure of this but my understanding was that Ferrybank has planning permission as a district shopping centre (meaning no clothes or other comparison shopping) , but the developer tried to let it as a regional shopping centre. This if memory serves me right goes back to a planning permission battle between Kilkenny CoCo and Waterford Co. The two councils slugged this out and Waterford got its way. Waterford Council have resisted pressure to allow clothes on the ring road- TK Maxx got shunted into the city, the council resisted pressure from M+S to get go near Ardkeen, the City learnt the lesson from NEXT who promised to keep open the City Sq store when getting permission to go in beside TESCO Ardkeen. This is a big deal in keeping the city from suffering from donut development.
So Ferrybank can only be used for a supermarket, butchers, bakers etc like Lisduggan..... Dunnes backed out of anchoring when they could not sell clothes, ended up in court and almost got found in contempt before coughing up a rumoured €20m to walk away……
https://fora.ie/dunnes-stores-disputes-with-landlords-3392623-May2017/
Ferrybank has been in the deep freezer since. Boundary disputes have implications, that centre cost €100m and has yielded nothing to the community, city or investors- everyone has been burnt so far and it sits as a warning to other investors.

Aquos76

Not sure how accurate that is tbh, I’ve been in there since it’s finished, it’s massive and some of the units were built for retail outlets without a doubt. I remember attending a meeting with the developer and local reps and the names that were brought up at that meeting were definitely UK high street outlets.

All these potential tenants needed Dunnes to be confirmed first before they were to commit to opening, that never happened and that’s where we are today.

JohnC.

Lisduggan has clothes...