Japan 2019 World Cup draw

The Lost Sheep

Riskymove wrote:

None of Scotland, Japan or Samoa/Tonga/Fiji will be easy games

considerably easier than other teams/pools we could have got

endabob1 wrote:

I still fail to understand the logic of doing the draw over 2 years in advance of the competition, basing it on world rankings that are well over 2 years out of date when the tournament starts and before 40% of the final teams are even known. It makes zero sense to me. The football world cup qualifying only starts 2 years in advance of the actual competition and the draw is 6 months before it starts.

to sell tickets. Promote it more. Draw needs to be done earlier to make ticket sales easier.

endabob1

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

to sell tickets. Promote it more. Draw needs to be done earlier to make ticket sales easier.

Is that the genuine reason?
The open sale was a year in advance last time out, I know there were some sales prior to that I am guessing through the supporters clubs but 2 years....
Even a year out would make some sense, but this far in advance seems madness to me (from a competition point of view anyway). I guess it'll be a harder sell in Japan than it might have been in England but would expect a fair amount of Kiwi's & Aussies will travel

thomond2006

endabob1 wrote: »

Is that the genuine reason?
The open sale was a year in advance last time out, I know there were some sales prior to that I am guessing through the supporters clubs but 2 years....
Even a year out would make some sense, but this far in advance seems madness to me (from a competition point of view anyway). I guess it'll be a harder sell in Japan than it might have been in England but would expect a fair amount of Kiwi's & Aussies will travel

A lot more people will have to travel from afar versus England 2015.

The Lost Sheep

endabob1 wrote:

Is that the genuine reason? The open sale was a year in advance last time out, I know there were some sales prior to that I am guessing through the supporters clubs but 2 years.... Even a year out would make some sense, but this far in advance seems madness to me (from a competition point of view anyway). I guess it'll be a harder sell in Japan than it might have been in England but would expect a fair amount of Kiwi's & Aussies will travel

much harder sell this time round and new Zealand/Australia are still a considerable distance from Japan. No day trippers like last time in 2015. Why is it madness selling this early though? What problems are created from doing this?

swiwi_

shuffol wrote: »

New Zealand in particular have a very handy route to the semi's assuming we top our group, they could arrive there a bit undercooked. A lot depends on SA trajectory over the next 2 years but they'll walk their group and will likely be playing sides resting up for group decider/QF against us. Then a QF against Scotland/Japan won't provide too much competition.

Nothing beats friggin 2007:

Lounging on the Corsican coast + Italy (76-14) + Portugal (108-13) + Scotland B - the cowards (40-0) + Romania (85-8) = defeat to France in Cardiff.

See I didn't even mention Wayne Barnes.

Buer

swiwi_ wrote: »

Scotland B - the cowards (40-0)

Christ, I forgot about that. Absolute embarrassment. The game was in Murrayfield too!

It's not a wonder Frank Hadden hasn't coached anywhere notable since.

endabob1

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

much harder sell this time round and new Zealand/Australia are still a considerable distance from Japan. No day trippers like last time in 2015. Why is it madness selling this early though? What problems are created from doing this?

Actually my issue isn't with the tickets per se, it's really why the draw is so far in advance and based on the seeding from 2 and a half years before the competition starts. The reasoning behind this was that the draw needs to made over 2 years in advance to sell tickets.
So would the solution would be to sell tickets in advance before the draw, (which is what happens in the football world cup) and hold back a percentage to sell to the countries involved? Or are RWC thinking that they need the big names allocated early to put bums on seats??
I was in Oz for the 2003 RWC when Ireland Australia & Argentina were in the same pool, all 3 teams ranked in the top 7 in the world at the start of the tournament, it does seem to always throw up one stupid group.

irishbucsfan

endabob1 wrote: »

Actually my issue isn't with the tickets per se, it's really why the draw is so far in advance and based on the seeding from 2 and a half years before the competition starts. The reasoning behind this was that the draw needs to made over 2 years in advance to sell tickets.
So would the solution would be to sell tickets in advance before the draw, (which is what happens in the football world cup) and hold back a percentage to sell to the countries involved? Or are RWC thinking that they need the big names allocated early to put bums on seats??
I was in Oz for the 2003 RWC when Ireland Australia & Argentina were in the same pool, all 3 teams ranked in the top 7 in the world at the start of the tournament, it does seem to always throw up one stupid group.

They've actually moved the draw closer to the competition. It used to be earlier.

Podge_irl

endabob1 wrote: »

So would the solution would be to sell tickets in advance before the draw, (which is what happens in the football world cup) and hold back a percentage to sell to the countries involved? Or are RWC thinking that they need the big names allocated early to put bums on seats??

Yeah, but rugby ain't football and never will be.

Is that actually what they do in the football world cup? Because I would never buy a ticket unless I knew who was playing (knock-outs aside)

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Christ, I forgot about that. Absolute embarrassment. The game was in Murrayfield too!

It's not a wonder Frank Hadden hasn't coached anywhere notable since.

Remind me, what was the idea there? It's not as if you can't rest players against the minnow teams. Why throw a game against NZ?

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Remind me, what was the idea there? It's not as if you can't rest players against the minnow teams. Why throw a game against NZ?

They saw it as playing for second place.

They had negotiated for a couple of games in Edinburgh and they chose the NZ game. Hadden put out an entirely second string team and they were beaten out the gate, 40-0 at home as they wanted to focus on securing second place.

They played Italy in the final game the following week and scraped a win. It was a farce.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

Remind me, what was the idea there? It's not as if you can't rest players against the minnow teams. Why throw a game against NZ?

well it was borne out to be a good decision as they went on to beat a good italian side by 2 points and secure second place in the pool.

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

Christ, I forgot about that. Absolute embarrassment. The game was in Murrayfield too!

It's not a wonder Frank Hadden hasn't coached anywhere notable since.

It was such a wimpy thing to do. They basically conceded defeat by resting their A team in order to be better prepared for their quarter final. Which they lost of course.

I struggle to think of any other tier one side which would start a RWC pool game having already openly admitted defeat.

It has been shown multiple times that upsets are absolutely possible in the RWC.

Riskymove

swiwi_ wrote: »

I struggle to think of any other tier one side which would start a RWC pool game having already openly admitted defeat.

interesting view

Do NZ never rest first team players in pool games? I would have thought it was a fairly common approach

aloooof

Riskymove wrote: »

interesting view

Do NZ never rest first team players in pool games? I would have thought it was a fairly common approach

When was the last time NZ lost a pool game?

endabob1

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yeah, but rugby ain't football and never will be.

Is that actually what they do in the football world cup? Because I would never buy a ticket unless I knew who was playing (knock-outs aside)

I was in SA for 2010 and bought tickets in the first ballot when you had no idea who you would get. They sold them locally not quite 2 years in advance but close enough I guess, I can't remember exactly when.
When the draw was made for the finals which would have been 6 months out, they released another batch, but the bulk of the tickets at this point were long gone.

I do understand the advance ticket sales idea, I just think there must be a better way of determining the draw a bit closer to the actual event.

Podge_irl

endabob1 wrote: »

I do understand the advance ticket sales idea, I just think there must be a better way of determining the draw a bit closer to the actual event.

Quite possibly, but to be honest I would want to start planning my trip a year out and I would want to know I had access to Ireland game tickets at that point.

Buer

Riskymove wrote: »

interesting view

Do NZ never rest first team players in pool games? I would have thought it was a fairly common approach

Big difference in resting players as you know you're going to win anyway and resting players and essentially throwing the game....in front of your own fans in the RWC.

ArmaniJeanss

endabob1 wrote: »

Is that the genuine reason?
The open sale was a year in advance last time out, I know there were some sales prior to that I am guessing through the supporters clubs but 2 years....
Even a year out would make some sense, but this far in advance seems madness to me (from a competition point of view anyway).

A year out would be next to impossible.
From today they'll spend the next 4/5 months working out the schedule and only then can they start selling tickets. The schedule is quite complex to keep everyone happy, be fair to all teams and fans, take into account ground availability (e.g., the way Wembley was only available for the first 8 days of the 2015 comp), tv company demands for the more interesting games to be spread over the 4 weekends, package holiday requirements, lots of other stuff.
Only then can a hard core ticket selling campaign begin.

jmayo

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A year out would be next to impossible.
From today they'll spend the next 4/5 months working out the schedule and only then can they start selling tickets. The schedule is quite complex to keep everyone happy, be fair to all teams and fans, ...

Actually a bone of contention for weaker teams is that the schedule isn't fair to the smaller teams who usually get less time between games to suit the higher profile teams.

I seem to remember Georgia playing games 4 and 5 days apart whereas other teams got 6 and 7.

The Lost Sheep

endabob1 wrote: »

Actually my issue isn't with the tickets per se, it's really why the draw is so far in advance and based on the seeding from 2 and a half years before the competition starts. The reasoning behind this was that the draw needs to made over 2 years in advance to sell tickets.
So would the solution would be to sell tickets in advance before the draw, (which is what happens in the football world cup) and hold back a percentage to sell to the countries involved? Or are RWC thinking that they need the big names allocated early to put bums on seats??
I was in Oz for the 2003 RWC when Ireland Australia & Argentina were in the same pool, all 3 teams ranked in the top 7 in the world at the start of the tournament, it does seem to always throw up one stupid group.

Its done to sell tickets and selling tickets in advance isnt really the option that it is in soccer. You cant compare the two and it would be the same with any other major team sport event.
There is 4 groups of 5. There always will be one very tough group until we have the case where the Georgians/Americans/Island nations etc get much stronger.

endabob1 wrote: »

I was in SA for 2010 and bought tickets in the first ballot when you had no idea who you would get. They sold them locally not quite 2 years in advance but close enough I guess, I can't remember exactly when.
When the draw was made for the finals which would have been 6 months out, they released another batch, but the bulk of the tickets at this point were long gone.

I do understand the advance ticket sales idea, I just think there must be a better way of determining the draw a bit closer to the actual event.

What is this better way? Remember rugby isnt soccer. Doesnt have anywhere near the support so doing it this way is needed to make enough sales.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A year out would be next to impossible.
From today they'll spend the next 4/5 months working out the schedule and only then can they start selling tickets. The schedule is quite complex to keep everyone happy, be fair to all teams and fans, take into account ground availability (e.g., the way Wembley was only available for the first 8 days of the 2015 comp), tv company demands for the more interesting games to be spread over the 4 weekends, package holiday requirements, lots of other stuff.
Only then can a hard core ticket selling campaign begin.

They wouldnt spend 4/5 months working out schedule though how to make schedule fair is a major issue that isnt the case as much/at all, in soccer.

jmayo wrote: »

Actually a bone of contention for weaker teams is that the schedule isn't fair to the smaller teams who usually get less time between games to suit the higher profile teams.

I seem to remember Georgia playing games 4 and 5 days apart whereas other teams got 6 and 7.

Georgia did have to play games 4/5 days apart as did some other sides ranked 4th/5th in their pool but so did quite a few of the bigger nations. South Africa, New Zealand, Argentina, Australia and France all played games 4/5 days apart during pool stage in 2015

dadad231

I guess Rugby is an emerging sport in Japan?.
I would never have placed it popular there - how come the draw is made so early too ?

The Lost Sheep

dadad231 wrote: »

I guess Rugby is an emerging sport in Japan?.
I would never have placed it popular there - how come the draw is made so early too ?

Rugby is very popular in Japan and its had a successful pro league for quite some time and that has had the backing of many large corporations for years.
Japan also has more players than most countries. Has 4th or 5th most players of any country.
Draw made this early to help ticket sales/promote competition

dadad231

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Rugby is very popular in Japan and its had a successful pro league for quite some time and that has had the backing of many large corporations for years.
Japan also has more players than most countries. Has 4th or 5th most players of any country.
Draw made this early to help ticket sales/promote competition

Interesting, I wouldn't have thought they would have had a great team -lets see.

Elvisjuice

dadad231 wrote: »

Interesting, I wouldn't have thought they would have had a great team -lets see.

why would you think that

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Big difference in resting players as you know you're going to win anyway and resting players and essentially throwing the game....in front of your own fans in the RWC.

The 'in front of your own fans' issue is the killer for me. Imagine if Ireland did that!

Quint2010

I see Heaslip has gotten himself in trouble with the Scots after punching the air when seeing the group...

Quint2010

Quint2010 wrote: »

I see Heaslip has gotten himself in trouble with the Scots after punching the air when seeing the group...

Yeah I saw that. Has generated a wonderful bit of salt on twitter. More power to him!

Glen_Quagmire

Would be interested in travelling over for a game, anyone any idea roughly what kind of money you'd be talking for a week over there for flights, accommodation and match ticket?

Podge_irl

Glen_Quagmire wrote: »

Would be interested in travelling over for a game, anyone any idea roughly what kind of money you'd be talking for a week over there for flights, accommodation and match ticket?

Honestly, no one is gonna have a clue. Japan is not actually that expensive - you could do a week there for 1200-1500EUR including flights no hassle (less if you don't mind "slumming" it a bit).

With the World Cup on...no idea what that'll do to flights and accom.