Fourth wave feminism.

Sweetemotion

What is all that about?

We have our national papers giving columns, to people like Louise O Niell and Rosemary Mc Cabe.

Both activists for Womens rights in Ireland and the Repeal the 8 campaign.

The only argument now in Ireland they have left, is the right to abortion.

After repeal the 8 is granted is that the end of feminism in Ireland as we all have equal rights?

DontThankMe

Sweetemotion wrote: »

What is all that about?

We have our national papers giving columns, to people like Louise O Niell and Rosemary Mc Cabe.

Both activists for Womens rights in Ireland and the Repeal the 8 campaign.

The only argument now in Ireland they have left, is the right to abortion.

After repeal the 8 is granted is that the end of feminism in Ireland as we all have equal rights?

No sir it will not be the end of feminism in Ireland. I believe the gender pay gap will be next on the list but I could be wrong.

Sweetemotion

DontThankMe wrote: »

No sir it will not be the end of feminism in Ireland. I believe the gender pay gap will be next on the list but I could be wrong.

What gender pay gap?

What's fourth wave feminism ?

machiavellianme

DontThankMe wrote: »

No sir it will not be the end of feminism in Ireland. I believe the gender pay gap will be next on the list but I could be wrong.

Looking forward to some parity. Sick of seeing female colleagues getting a six month paid holiday to have a child while I'm slaving in the office with no option for the same.

Jack the Stripper

Is fourth generation like super Hd?

DontThankMe

Sweetemotion wrote: »

What gender pay gap?

This one

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/gender-pay-gap-in-ireland-has-widened-over-last-five-years-1.2983387

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ireland-set-to-introduce-measures-to-close-the-gender-pay-gap-35516983.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/labour-proposes-bill-to-tackle-gender-pay-gap-780836.html

Sweetemotion

bubblypop wrote: »

What's fourth wave feminism ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-wave_feminism

Sweetemotion

DontThankMe wrote: »

This one

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/gender-pay-gap-in-ireland-has-widened-over-last-five-years-1.2983387

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ireland-set-to-introduce-measures-to-close-the-gender-pay-gap-35516983.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/labour-proposes-bill-to-tackle-gender-pay-gap-780836.html

Work the same hours get the pay.

freshpopcorn

DontThankMe wrote: »

No sir it will not be the end of feminism in Ireland. I believe the gender pay gap will be next on the list but I could be wrong.

This is something I often wondered about the gender pay gap. Somebody told me in the past that the main reason for the gender pay gap is because women took more time for maternity leave or they took time to mind the kids at home and this meant they didn't build up the same amount of service as men and this is why the gap excised. Is this true?

machiavellianme

bubblypop wrote: »

What's fourth wave feminism ?

I think the first wave was when they had tea and crumpets and used to wave their little fingers. Then they moved on to waving their index fingers in agitation. Next it was the thumbs up wave once they got parity and now they're waving their middle fingers at anyone who'll listen because life's so unfair (or something).

Yamanoto

bubblypop wrote: »

What's fourth wave feminism ?

Mandatory beard, full bush & pits.

DontThankMe

freshpopcorn wrote: »

This is something I often wondered about the gender pay gap. Somebody told me in the past that the main reason for the gender pay gap is because women took more time for maternity leave or they took time to mind the kids at home and this meant they didn't build up the same amount of service as men and this is why the gap excised. Is this true?

To be honest with you I have a few friends that say the gender pay gap is a myth but, I haven't done enough research myself to make up my own mind so I can't really answer your question sorry.

Junkyard Tom

I wouldn't worry too much about it - it's just that in a surf session women surfers get to go on every fourth wave.

Sweetemotion

DontThankMe wrote: »

To be honest with you I have a few friends that say the gender pay gap is a myth but, I haven't done enough research myself to make up my own mind so I can't really answer your question sorry.

Listen to your friends.

buried

R.I.P.TIDE

andekwarhola

/heads back to chuck berry on you tube.

Richard Hillman

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

Is fourth generation like super Hd?

No it's like 3D. Sounds great but in the end, it just isnt as good as standard Def.

The_Valeyard

Fourth wave feminism wont be happy until all men are held as slaves deep in the mines of mars writing bad jokes for women.

B.A._Baracus

Feminism is bollocks...
Because out of all the cries you hear from Western Feminists you never hear them talk about how women are being treated in the middle east. God forbid they could help their fellow woman somewhere else in the world that actually needs women's rights :pac:

Mountainsandh

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Feminism is bollocks...
Because out of all the cries you hear from Western Feminists you never hear them talk about how women are being treated in the middle east. God forbid they could help their fellow woman somewhere else in the world that actually needs women's rights :pac:

Ah but they do sometimes.
The worst is when I see feminists on Facebook staunchly defending Middle East women's right to wear Muslim coverings. No matter how you spin it, it just doesn't ad up in my view.

scoey

Next step after the current playing field is considered sufficiently "equal" is demanding reparations to make up for the ills of the distant past.
See liberals in America for examples.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

What are the first three waves?

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

mzungu

sashafierce wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

To be fair, it would not be a women's issue, so I don't believe one could expect them to fight that particular battle. But seeing as though the "wage gap" can be explained by women needing to take time off work to raise a family, when fathers rights do improve, that will do more to fix those discrepancies than any kind of social engineering quota system. That said, I think the fathers rights issue is one that needs to be fought by men themselves. Granted, there are organisations out there doing just that, but they mostly seem to be threading water (apart from the odd stunt here and there). I think they need to push these issues on politicians, because unless it becomes a vote winner, there is not a hope of it gaining any traction. I would be fairly sure that there is a high proportion of both sexes that would welcome fathers rights, so it is something that is quite achievable as long as there is a proper strategy involved.

y0ssar1an22

if a female colleage of mine gets paid more, am i now entitled to a raise? not beciasue i deserve it, but because discrimination.

same **** as buying houses...if you dont agree with the wage dont take the job or negotaitae a better deal. this whole thought process is what leads you to socialism

johndaman66

The whole gender pay gap is a load of nonsense. These studies and findings are crude and misleading. They do not make a comparison of hour versus hour which is the true reflection. Rather they focus on annual salaries which fail to take into account maternity leave; parental leave; time taken off to take the kiddies to the doctor/ hospital etc.


Also if big bouts of time are taken off career progression is logically going to suffer as a consequence. If a man and a woman have worked in the same industry for the same amount of time; both have gained the same industry experience and knowledge per hour worked except the woman has taken 2 or 3 bouts of extended mat leave and parental leave how could the woman expect to have progressed as far in her career as her male counterpart? Again these studies selectively choose to ignore and mask this aspect. Consequently if the woman hasn't progressed as high up the career ladder her take home pay wont be as high, as you could only expect.


As I'm aware men are now entitled to equal parental leave to women. However, in reality I get the impression men take a lot less parental leave to women which no doubt is a conscious decision between couples. Granted there are possibly a lot more single parent women than men out there but this is in part circumstantial and party because the courts will favour on the side of the woman if there is a custody battle all other aspects being equal.

arse..biscuits

If an employer can hire women to do the same work for way less pay, why would anyone hire men?

Mokuba

mzungu wrote: »

To be fair, it would not be a women's issue, so I don't believe one could expect them to fight that particular battle. But seeing as though the "wage gap" can be explained by women needing to take time off work to raise a family, when fathers rights do improve, that will do more to fix those discrepancies than any kind of social engineering quota system. That said, I think the fathers rights issue is one that needs to be fought by men themselves. Granted, there are organisations out there doing just that, but they mostly seem to be threading water (apart from the odd stunt here and there). I think they need to push these issues on politicians, because unless it becomes a vote winner, there is not a hope of it gaining any traction. I would be fairly sure that there is a high proportion of both sexes that would welcome fathers rights, so it is something that is quite achievable as long as there is a proper strategy involved.

Ask any feminist the definition of the word and they will mistakenly say - belief in equality between the sexes.

So by their own logic areas in which men are disadvantaged should be just as important. Unfortunately the vast majority of "feminists" couldn't care less about any male plight. If they were at least honest in their intentions it might be easier to have some respect for them.

Help!!!!

DontThankMe wrote: »

To be honest with you I have a few friends that say the gender pay gap is a myth but, I haven't done enough research myself to make up my own mind so I can't really answer your question sorry.

Of course its a myth, if a man & woman start work on the same day in a supermarket doing the same job, they both get paid the same hourly rate. If the woman leaves to start a family & stays out of work for say 5 years, if she was to go back to work in the same supermarket she cannot expect to be on the same wage as the man she started with. The mans wages have gone up because of wage increases over the time the woman was off.

Woodhenge

Fourth Wave Feminism is when 'First World Problems' went from being a joke to a fanatical movement.

professore

arse..biscuits wrote: »

If an employer can hire women to do the same work for way less pay, why would anyone hire men?

I was talking​ to a fellow man last week at the patriarch business owners of ireland and he was telling me how embarrassed he was when he discovered a woman was being paid the same as a man for the same work.

He immediately awarded the man a 20% pay rise. Last week he fired his top salesperson because her bonuses would have meant she earned more than the top salesman.

Winterlong

professore wrote: »

Last week he fired his top salesperson because her bonuses would have meant she earned more than the top salesman.

I know the man. He told me that he made her make tea for all the males in the office before she left the building.

mzungu

Mokuba wrote: »

Ask any feminist the definition of the word and they will mistakenly say - belief in equality between the sexes.

So by their own logic areas in which men are disadvantaged should be just as important. Unfortunately the vast majority of "feminists" couldn't care less about any male plight. If they were at least honest in their intentions it might be easier to have some respect for them.

I think when the line about "equality" is trotted out, it is done so for PR purposes, and little else. It means the interview won't get bogged down in discussions about mens rights or about the principles of true egalitarianism etc. I think most people who identify as feminist - that don't have a media presence - would be the first to tell you that it is a movement specifically for women, and rightly so IMO. As always, the clue is in the name.

I think the onus is on society to take the "equality" line with a grain of salt, and realise that changes need to occur within the mens movement to drive it onwards.

mrsdewinter

Great. Another 'feminist-bashing' thread on AH. To all those men who think the gender pay gap is a myth, not every woman has children, yet women are underrepresented at the top levels of pay, so the argument that 'well, take a year off to have a baby, and that's what you get...' doesn't hold much water.

Bredabe

I campaign for equal rights for men, especially in terms of their children,
I can understand that some women in the middle east dont want to have to change from their traditional clothing, if they can do their job in it, why should they?

I've never taken maternity leave, but I was still paid the same as women who did, was fobbed off when I asked why. It was only when I moved job to the UK was I given pay parity. My younger generation in Ireland are still not being paid the same salary in reality as their male colleagues in some jobs, with the same conditions.

mzungu

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Great. Another 'feminist-bashing' thread on AH. To all those men who think the gender pay gap is a myth, not every woman has children, yet women are underrepresented at the top levels of pay, so the argument that 'well, take a year off to have a baby, and that's what you get...' doesn't hold much water.

Bashing? Really? The last page has been about what men need to do to fix things like the "pay gap". Also, women with no children out earn men with no children by 17% up to the age of 30. After that, the age when most women will start a family and be out of the workplace, causes a huge bulk of the difference.

Nobody is making the argument that it is tough luck if you want a family. I think extending fathers rights so they can raise their children if they so wish, will be of great help to both.

Omackeral

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Great. Another 'feminist-bashing' thread on AH. To all those men who think the gender pay gap is a myth, not every woman has children, yet women are underrepresented at the top levels of pay, so the argument that 'well, take a year off to have a baby, and that's what you get...' doesn't hold much water.

Maybe males make up the between candidates for those particular jobs. You for want gender quotas do you?

machiavellianme

machiavellianme wrote: »

Looking forward to some parity. Sick of seeing female colleagues getting a six month paid holiday to have a child while I'm slaving in the office with no option for the same.

Hilarious. As a man who has just become a father and is entitled to 2 weeks paid paternity leave (introduced in Sept 2016), I'd rather be at work so won't be taking the government up on it. I also like the fact that instead of staying in the same room as the newborn and being woken up every 30 minutes I have the freedom to go into another bedroom and sleep through the night. How many mothers, who are apparently not "slaving", have this freedom?

It could only be an unmarried, childless man who has not had to mind children who dismisses the work of child rearing. Work is a holiday compared to the tempermental torture of babies who are unable to communicate except by crying and who decide when you can sleep, when you can wake up and how much work you can do at home (usually absolutely none).

The people who get most riled up about "feminism" consistently come across as not having a clue of the real world, as never having grown beyond their own little mé féiner interests to a position of being able to care for somebody else.

The one, outstanding issue where men are discriminated against is regarding access to the children in the event of a break up. Other than that serious issue, the whole anti-feminist movement is perpetrated by a false sense of victimhood by the most emotionally undeveloped of males on the lookout for a scapegoat for their own failings.

Omackeral

Feminism used to mean equality. There was a legitimate need and want for it in so worry. Nowadays, this new age 3rd and 4th wave stuff is honest to god just as much about targeting men as oppressors and deviants in the making as it is about equality. It's mostly a load of cods wallop IMO. If someone in 2017 feels the need to label themselves as a feminist on social media or in real life, then that's the type of person I'd generally want to avoid.

professore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hilarious. As a man who has just become a father and is entitled to 2 weeks paid paternity leave (introduced in Sept 2016), I'd rather be at work so won't be taking the government up on it. I also like the fact that instead of staying in the same room as the newborn and being woken up every 30 minutes I have the freedom to go into another bedroom and sleep through the night. How many mothers, who are apparently not "slaving", have this freedom?

It could only be an unmarried, childless man who has not had to mind children who dismisses the work of child rearing. Work is a holiday compared to the tempermental torture of babies who are unable to communicate except by crying and who decide when you can sleep, when you can wake up and how much work you can do at home (usually absolutely none).

The people who get most riled up about "feminism" consistently come across as not having a clue of the real world, as never having grown beyond their own little mé féiner interests to a position of being able to care for somebody else.

The one, outstanding issue where men are discriminated against is regarding access to the children in the event of a break up. Other than that serious issue, the whole anti-feminist movement is perpetrated by a false sense of victimhood by the most emotionally undeveloped of males on the lookout for a scapegoat for their own failings.

I'm a dad with kids, and you're right, but no group values raising children less than fourth wave feminists.

mrsdewinter

Omackeral wrote: »

Maybe males make up the between candidates for those particular jobs. You for want gender quotas do you?

What's a 'between candidate'?

Help!!!!

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Great. Another 'feminist-bashing' thread on AH. To all those men who think the gender pay gap is a myth, not every woman has children, yet women are underrepresented at the top levels of pay, so the argument that 'well, take a year off to have a baby, and that's what you get...' doesn't hold much water.

But have those women been in the company as long as the men? You cannot expect to get paid the same as someone who's been with the company years longer ( that goes for men & women )

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

the whole feminist movement is perpetrated by a false sense of victimhood by the most emotionally undeveloped of females on the lookout for a scapegoat for their own failings.

That can be made to fit too.

silverharp

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Great. Another 'feminist-bashing' thread on AH. To all those men who think the gender pay gap is a myth, not every woman has children, yet women are underrepresented at the top levels of pay, so the argument that 'well, take a year off to have a baby, and that's what you get...' doesn't hold much water.

and? men and women take different degrees in different numbers and take different jobs in companies in different numbers. If you take a high tech IT firm for instance, isnt it reasonable that the IT engineers will rise to the top of that type of company because most will be male. so yep the pay gap is pretty much a myth.

diomed

machiavellianme wrote: »

Looking forward to some parity. Sick of seeing female colleagues getting a six month paid holiday to have a child while I'm slaving in the office with no option for the same.

Just take up the slack. Its only for a few months. :pac:

Bredabe

silverharp wrote: »

and? men and women take different degrees in different numbers and take different jobs in companies in different numbers. If you take a high tech IT firm for instance, isnt it reasonable that the IT engineers will rise to the top of that type of company because most will be male. so yep the pay gap is pretty much a myth.

I was in admin before, same working hours as my male colleagues, different pay for the same qualifications. While in Ireland it seems to be true that men in IT get the promotions and pay because of their numbers, from what I hear from ladies getting up the ladder in IT, they are given very little hope for pay parity till there are more of them to force a change.

The opposite situation in my part of the UK, cause of the different attitude to education and gender.

silverharp

Bredabe wrote: »

I was in admin before, same working hours as my male colleagues, different pay for the same qualifications. While in Ireland it seems to be true that men in IT get the promotions and pay because of their numbers, from what I hear from ladies getting up the ladder in IT, they are given very little hope for pay parity till there are more of them to force a change.

The opposite situation in my part of the UK, cause of the different attitude to education and gender.

Most western countries have equal pay legislation and at the end of the day if women would work for 20% less than men then there is a business opportunity to setup all female companies and you will kill the competition
No idea about your anecdotal examples , it would be illegal to have a policy to pay men more than a woman for the same position so either the male employees are more pushy when they accept a job or there is something about their work experience that allows them to be paid more. Having a qualification you may have received 10 years ago isnt going to be the only or even main decider on pay.

soups05

it is funny how there is a push for more women in the higher paid jobs like CEO and IT, but you never see a campaign to attract more women to lower paid jobs, like for example rubbish collection, coal mining, street sweeping. Could it be that women only want the jobs viewed as being cushy? surely not lol.

Bredabe

silverharp wrote: »

Most western countries have equal pay legislation and at the end of the day if women would work for 20% less than men then there is a business opportunity to setup all female companies and you will kill the competition
No idea about your anecdotal examples , it would be illegal to have a policy to pay men more than a woman for the same position so either the male employees are more pushy when they accept a job or there is something about their work experience that allows them to be paid more. Having a qualification you may have received 10 years ago isnt going to be the only or even main decider on pay.

I cant explain it either, but its what i experienced and what i hear from ppl working in such areas's in Ireland.

am well aware it's not legal, but when women who query why they paid less than a male colleague are told its cause (in one case) he had a different qualification to you, even tho it wasnt, Im sure you know in Ireland, where there is a rule there are many exceptions!

Im sure as soon as there is pay parity and proper housing/child minding facilities, more women will be able to save to set up their own businesses, I did it and loved it for a while.

As for anecdotal, its the way I write, I dont on my off time write in business english, but thank you for not being the sort of w£$k%r who dismisses what I say on the basis of varying opinions and writing styles. Rare in my short time in boards.ie

suicide_circus

mzungu wrote: »

but they mostly seem to be threading water.

*twitches*