Young woman murdered in Goa, India

mahamageehad

fatknacker wrote: »

No ones saying not to take precautions, of course you do that anywhere. But the idea that women shouldnt travel alone because they are likely to have terrible things happen is pure scaremongering.
Like I said, it makes headlines because it's generally rare. That's not to take away from people being sensible about what they do with themselves. But sometimes **** things happen and they can happen in your local just as easily.

I dunno, there's a handful of places that I wouldn't go to as a woman alone. Goa may not be one of them (haven't done research on it) but I do think in some countries or cities it's not safe for a woman to travel alone. The vast majority of the world is fine though as long as you take precautions. Research is key.

Also RIP, horrible story.

fatknacker

mahamageehad wrote: »

I dunno, there's a handful of places that I wouldn't go to as a woman alone. Goa may not be one of them (haven't done research on it) but I do think in some countries or cities it's not safe for a woman to travel alone. The vast majority of the world is fine though as long as you take precautions. Research is key.

Also RIP, horrible story.

Yeah for sure there are places in the world that you just don't go to. Even as a guy. That article was just pure ****e though. "Dangers for women travelling to Goa are well known" and goes on to talk about another girl attacked 9 years ago.

Sure aren't more backpackers attacked in Australia yet there's no "DANGER" articles looming about each time something happens there.

Shurimgreat

Everywhere is safe if you take precautions and have a bit of forewarning. There are parts of Dublin I generally try to avoid, particularly late at night. There are also parts of Paris, Barcelona, Glasgow and so on that should be avoided when alone at night.

It may be wrong to put out the message that parts of India are a no go area for westerners, but its equally wrong to state that parts of India or the third wold in general are perfectly safe paradises where you'd be safer than in Ireland. Its not true. Know the risks, know the crime stats, who you can and cannot trust. These places may seem quiet and peaceful on the face of it, but often have a seedy undercurrent.

fatknacker

Yeah but I never said anywhere is perfectly safe. Because nowhere is perfectly safe.
Some places are safer than others of course. But articles like that one posted are a load of bollocks imo. Women who travel alone are very much aware of their vulnerability. It's patronizing tbh

Shurimgreat

I came across this on Tripadvisor, from someone who presumably knows the area well.

PRECAUTIONS, ESPECIALLY FOR GOA.


1. Unless on the beaches of Goa, it's best to dress conservatively. No shorts, short skirs, or shirts displaying too much cleavage. You will have to endure uncomfortable stares, and sometimes comments and even "accidental" touching. (Capris and t-shrits are fine.).


2. If someone does touch you or becomes aggressive, yell LOUDLY. They will likely run away and you will attract the attention of others who will come to your rescue.


3. Avoid walking in deserted areas at night or odd hours.


4. Avoid drinking alcohol in excess.


5. Carry tissue/toilet paper. You never know when you'll need it.


6. Where available, use women's only areas/compartments on public transportation. Never ride in the general men's compartment.


7. If you do go out to clubs/bars, never leave your drink unattended and always make sure you have transportation back to your hotel pre-arranged.


8. Never accept a ride if there's someone accompanying the driver in a taxi or rickshaw.


9. Chain-lock your door when inside your hotel room.


10. If you happen to come across a street party or a festive procession, it is best not to take part. Crowds such as those will likely have agressive and/or drunk men. You can watch from a distance and move on when it has passed you.

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowTopic-g297604-i6045-k10308018-Women_Safety_in_Goa-Goa.html

I don't want to overplay the risks, but anyone travelling there should know these things.

Its not the perfectly safe, peaceful paradise that some would have us believe.

fatknacker

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I came across this on Tripadvisor, from someone who presumably knows the area well.




https://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowTopic-g297604-i6045-k10308018-Women_Safety_in_Goa-Goa.html

I don't want to overplay the risks, but anyone travelling there should know these things.

Its not the perfectly safe, peaceful paradise that some would have us believe.

Should, but I also see these types of safety precautions listed on the backs of toilet doors in Dublin too.

Hell, there's even a "safe word" you can give to bar staff if you think you're on a dodgy date and need an exit strategy.

Shurimgreat

fatknacker wrote: »

Should, but I also see these types of safety precautions listed on the backs of toilet doors in Dublin too.

Hell, there's even a "safe word" you can give to bar staff if you think you're on a dodgy date and need an exit strategy.

So women should only use female only compartments on the luas/train/dart?

Get real.

You cannot compare the two countries in terms of the treatment of women. Read the points the tripadvisor poster made again. Women, particularly western women, are a target of local men in Goa. The danger is there, to ignore or dismiss it nonchalantly serves no-one.

I will put it simply, this place is dangerous for western women.

fatknacker

Wtf?? I never said that.

Yeah I've said my bit. It was mostly about scaremongering indo articles.

I'm not going around in circles all day and barking at shadows.

I'm done.

pappyodaniel

<mod snip> nobody needs/wants to see that </mod snip>
I came across this vile Facebook page when looking for news on the story.

PowerToWait

I thought it was common knowledge that India was a fairly dodgy destination for women travelling solo. There have been many notorious incidences of gang rape and murder of Indian women and tourists in recent times.

Comparing it to Dublin is simply ridiculous.

A female friend of mine travelled there alone around 15 years back and reckons it was basically one sexual assault after another in some parts when crowded and until she figured out wtf was going on.

Jurgen Klopp

PowerToWait wrote: »

I thought it was common knowledge that India was a fairly dodgy destination for women travelling solo. There have been many notorious incidences of gang rape and murder of Indian women and tourists in recent times.

Comparing it to Dublin is simply ridiculous.

A female friend of mine travelled there alone around 15 years back and reckons it was basically one sexual assault after another in some parts when crowded and until she figured out wtf was going on.

This is boards, everyone and everywhere in the world is safe and tolerant. A woman would have no problem walking through Aleppo and anyone that says different is just scaremongering

fatknacker

I'm not talking about all of India where there's 1billion people. I'm talking about Goa, the article is about Goa and the article lists 2 western women over the space of 9 years who were attacked. Hardly disproportionate.

Ah bollocks I'm not going through this again if people can't read and make **** up in their heads as they go along.

Joey Jo-Jo Junior

sugarman wrote: »

fatknacker wrote: »

Wtf?? I never said that.

Yeah I've said my bit. It was mostly about scaremongering indo articles.

I'm not going around in circles all day and barking at shadows.

I'm done.

What are you talking about??? Its widely reported across the world, even in India itself.

I seriously suggest you look at some statistics of of violence, rape and murder against women in India, particularity incidents against backpackers and their attitudes towards them.

It's remarkable how easy you find it to to treat 15% of the human population as if they were all the same.

Nobody is denying the statistics for India but how much of that is applicable to Goa?

GOA. Have you heard of it before? Or did you just hear 'India' and jump in with your generalisations?

fatknacker

sugarman wrote: »

You still havent a clue.

Theres 1.5m people in the Goa region.. while crime against women is lower than other areas of India its still astonishingly high by western standards. There were over 3,200 reportedcases in Goa in 2015 against women alone.

Its not scare mongering, its hard facts.

And was that agains western women traveling alone, like the article suggests? Or women in general? Were they all murdered too? And how does that figure compare with crimes against women in Dublin?

May that young woman rest in peace.

retro:electro

Very sad. I would never travel alone myself for safety reasons but I think as a society we have a tendency to "other" these problems. Take Manchester for example, nobody would bat an eyelid if you told them you were going there for a weekend away but statistics show that there were over 1,200 reported rapes in the city during 2016.
I've no doubt that some parts of the world are very dangerous, especially when travelling alone, and even more so if you're a woman travelling alone, but similarly something like this could happen anywhere.

fatknacker

sugarman wrote: »

Heres a report from Indian media on Goa in 2014.

Goa actually topped the list in 2014 for crimes committed against foreigners in India.

And by foreigners...also there are higher amounts of foreigners in Goa so that's a no brainier.

That article says 73 crimes for mostly theft.

How many for rape and murder?

panda100

Wow, just wow, to this thread. A women has been murdered and within the second post she is being victim blamed for her own death. After Hours never ceases to disgust in its attitide towards women.

My heart goes out to this poor womens friends and family at such a tragic time.

Close friend of mine, a woman, was there 2 years ago. Did say parts of India felt unsafe, but North Goa was fine.

Either way, kinda agree with panda100's post. Not sure about the "well she should have known not to travel to India" stuff.,,

PowerToWait

Deleted User wrote: »

Close friend of mine, a woman, was there 2 years ago. Did say parts of India felt unsafe, but North Goa was fine.

Either way, kinda agree with panda100's post. Not sure about the "well she should have known not to travel to India" stuff.,,

Fwiw I'm not saying 'she should've known better' at all. I am saying it's a bit mad of other posters to deny there are serious problems in India. It's a very far way from the paradise people paint it as.

Leaving all the crime against women aside, there's the horrendous inequality and poverty.

hungry hypno toad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Close friend of mine, a woman, was there 2 years ago. Did say parts of India felt unsafe, but North Goa was fine.

Either way, kinda agree with panda100's post. Not sure about the "well she should have known not to travel to India" stuff.,,

Let's put these responses in context, the OP said she felt safer in India than in Ireland. I think most people find that hard to believe.

alchemist33

This is the post referred to as "victim blaming". How???

Winterlong wrote: »

God love her. Goa for me will always be associated with the Scarlett Keeling murder.
It should be a little bit of paradise on earth though.

Winterlong

panda100 wrote: »

Wow, just wow, to this thread. A women has been murdered and within the second post she is being victim blamed for her own death. After Hours never ceases to disgust in its attitide towards women.

My heart goes out to this poor womens friends and family at such a tragic time.

What are you on about? How is the below post victim blaming?

Winterlong wrote: »

God love her. Goa for me will always be associated with the Scarlett Keeling murder.
It should be a little bit of paradise on earth though.

anewme

anna080 wrote: »

Very sad. I would never travel alone myself for safety reasons but I think as a society we have a tendency to "other" these problems. Take Manchester for example, nobody would bat an eyelid if you told them you were going there for a weekend away but statistics show that there were over 1,200 reported rapes in the city during 2016.
I've no doubt that some parts of the world are very dangerous, especially when travelling alone, and even more so if you're a woman travelling alone, but similarly something like this could happen anywhere.

RIP to Danielle. It is no fault of her own that this happened to her. She should be able to go where she likes without anything like this happening.

As a woman, I always travel alone or as part of a tour with the likes of g adventures, where you still end up with solo time.

Life is short, the world is beautiful, if no one else can go, I'm not going to sit at home knitting.

As long as you're careful, you should be fine. This applies to everyone, everywhere, men or women. Somewhere like Manchester would be fine, it's similar to here, you would fast see if you were going down the wrong track. Let's be honest, there's parts of Dublin that I'd not walk alone at night. Or in the daytime.

Still think of Guido Nassi, very sad case, who thought that could happen in Fairview Park, so the reality is, anything could happen anywhere, all you can do is take the best precautions you can.

One place I would not go is India. It's too unpredictable. I would just not feel safe alone there. In fact I'd probably not feel safe there at all(as a woman even in a group) Look what happened with that lady (who was not alone) raped and murdered by a gang of men on a bus. That's just not going to happen to you on the 6b to the Trafford Centre.

Nabber

I work for a large IT company and they have dozens of sites in India.
When a woman is travelling there for a business trip the company provides a local security guard and a guard local to the woman's region.
i.e. A woman from Dublin will get an Irish based guard and a local Indian guard.

During the hiring phase for a new site in Mumbai, we had to adhere to a local law, 15% of employees should be women. That wasn't a problem, the issue was women had to be hired in pairs and be treated as one hiring.

I spent 8 weeks there, in the offices I was based in (well known IT company) women are not allowed to share elevators with men for fear of sexual assault. Women's bathrooms were locked down with female only entry cards.

In the streets it was even worse. We went to a festival honouring one of their Gods. Every now and then there would be a frenzy of men, as if some one was giving away free money. It turned out the men were sexually assaulting women, ripping their clothes and grabbing them.

When I got home I told my wife she could see India from a plane and that we'd never take a trip there. There are places you don't go to. I wouldn't go to the slums of Brazil, women shouldn't go to India.

Witchie

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Let's put these responses in context, the OP said she felt safer in India than in Ireland. I think most people find that hard to believe.

Well I did feel safer on the beach and on the streets around Palolem than in the streets of Dublin at night.

Maybe its coz I am in "holiday" mode and a bit more relaxed but I have been hyper aware at all times as I know that, as with anywhere, there are dangers.

Anyway whether I feel safe or not here is not important anymore. I will stay for another few weeks but am now reviewing my decision to travel across the country on my own and may look at going on a tour instead.

Erik Shin

Witchie, i would think even the most gung-ho posters here would definitely advise against you travelling accross the Indian subcontinent on your own . Travel as part of a group / tour would be my advice.

alchemist33

Nabber wrote: »

I work for a large IT company and they have dozens of sites in India.
When a woman is travelling there for a business trip the company provides a local security guard and a guard local to the woman's region.
i.e. A woman from Dublin will get an Irish based guard and a local Indian guard.

During the hiring phase for a new site in Mumbai, we had to adhere to a local law, 15% of employees should be women. That wasn't a problem, the issue was women had to be hired in pairs and be treated as one hiring.

I spent 8 weeks there, in the offices I was based in (well known IT company) women are not allowed to share elevators with men for fear of sexual assault. Women's bathrooms were locked down with female only entry cards.

In the streets it was even worse. We went to a festival honouring one of their Gods. Every now and then there would be a frenzy of men, as if some one was giving away free money. It turned out the men were sexually assaulting women, ripping their clothes and grabbing them.

When I got home I told my wife she could see India from a plane and that we'd never take a trip there. There are places you don't go to. I wouldn't go to the slums of Brazil, women shouldn't go to India.

I spent a few weeks there in the nineties in two stints, both times with Irish women and we never had any bother at all. I fact we met some lovely people. That said I don't doubt what you say. There are some pretty backward areas with very out-dated ideas.

But it wouldn't stop me taking my wife to India some day, especially to see the Taj which is just magnificent "in the flesh".

Erik Shin

alchemist33 wrote: »

I spent a few weeks there in the nineties in two stints, both times with Irish women and we never had any bother at all. I fact we met some lovely people. That said I don't doubt what you say. There are some pretty backward areas with very out-dated ideas.

But it wouldn't stop me taking my wife to India some day, especially to see the Taj which is just magnificent "in the flesh".

I think the question you'd have to ask is...Would you let your wife go to India to see the Taj...But on her own?

alchemist33

Erik Shin wrote: »

I think the question you'd have to ask is...Would you let your wife go to India to see the Taj...But on her own?

Definitely not

A local did befriend us there one time and eventually tried to convince us to smuggle gems to Australia. We didnt. You have to be on the lookout for more than murderers and rapists, but I would still say its a great country to visit, with caveats.