One in four people in Ireland experience sexual abuse.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

25% of Irish people have been sexually abused?

What is covered by the term sexually abused in this case? Who was surveyed?

If you were wolf whistled at , or someone brushes off ya in a full night club/pubs apparenly counts

lawred2

Aarav Miniature Paperweight wrote: »

If you were wolf whistled at , or someone brushes off ya in a full night club/pubs apparenly counts

Is there a glossary as to what was to be considered as constituting abuse?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

daheff

Aarav Miniature Paperweight wrote: »

If you were wolf whistled at , or someone brushes off ya in a full night club/pubs apparenly counts

or been to coppers


****Wait...thats it. A quarter of the population have been to Coppers!!!

Kidchameleon

......... wrote: »

I'm still waiting for you to provide any proof or evidence of you claims

Hi OP. Would you kindly have any other sources for the 1 in 4 stat? Other than the one from the first post.

222233

Why are the no publications on this other than the 2002 survey?

JupiterKid

When 1 in 4 came out with this statistic, I thought it was exaggerating and ridiculous. But in the 15 or so years since and from what I've read up about sexual abuse, I'm not so sure...

patnor1011

JupiterKid wrote: »

When 1 in 4 came out with this statistic, I thought it was exaggerating and ridiculous. But in the 15 or so years since and from what I've read up about sexual abuse, I'm not so sure...

Yes, that pretty much sums it up. What we see nowadays is called creative writing, if you do not get as much instances of what you want lets divide them in more creative categories, blur the lines little bit - invent some more and suddenly more stuff falls in. Go after usual suspects, they get bashing left and right why not add a bit more every time.
Key point here is sources. As multiple sources not just one or two with vested interest.
What you read is what they want you to see. What you see isn't all there is and what you assume hardly ever is.
Paper do not feel or blush. Paper bears anything.

BrokenArrows

1/4 seems a bit unrealistic depending on the definition of assault.
Someone grabbing my ass in a nightclub. Its happened me a few times (im male). Does that mean ive been sexually assaulted multiple times?

eviltwin

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Nothing eviltwin said contradicted anything I said? Given that you're clearly ignoring what people are actually telling you, I don't see much point in continuing this conversation. This is exactly why I encourage you to do your own research. I don't want you to take my word for it, I don't want you to take anyone's word for it - go and do your own research, and then you'll have a more informed perspective and a more accurate picture, from a number of sources!

Well to be fair Jack, sexual abuse is not something a lot of people are going to be open about. It carries a huge stigma. Even today. I've spoken about my own experiences with sexual abuse here before but in real life only my husband and a close friend know. I wouldn't tell anyone else. I guess for other survivors its probably the same.

I work with abuse victims and their families and the first thing they ask is usually "will anyone find out"....no one wants to be known as the person who was abused.

One in 4 deal exclusively with adults and I'd imagine most of those people are in contact re historical abuse. It might not all be on the higher end of the scale like rape etc but if people are contacting them its obviously having an impact.

Abuse is horrible. I've had years of therapy, I in no way blame myself or feel that I was in some way deserving of what happened to me but I still have moments where I have to check myself because the thoughts in my heads are the thoughts of the abused child. Luckily I have no let it impact me too much but others are not so lucky. If organisations like 1 in 4 help these people achieve some peace of mind then good on them. Not everyone is in a position to afford private therapy.

One eyed Jack

eviltwin wrote: »

If organisations like 1 in 4 help these people achieve some peace of mind then good on them. Not everyone is in a position to afford private therapy.

eviltwin I'm only gonna quote this bit because the rest of what you said I absolutely agree with and I absolutely understand where you're coming from.

My issue with an organisation like 1in4 is not with the counsellors and the volunteers and the ordinary people within any charity organisation that aims to support people. My issue is with the likes of the people that run these organisations. In the same year as Colm O' Gorman had already received over €600,000, over half of that money went on salaries for five people, a third of it went to the UK (incidentally, the head of 1in4 in the UK works in a voluntary capacity and takes no salary), one third of it went on rent for an office.

Then when he demanded another €80k from the HSE to actually provide counselling services, the HSE was already after spending €17m in that year alone to provide counselling services for people, and because they weren't willing to hand over €80k, he threatened to shut down the charity. All 1in4 is doing is taking advantage of the HSE's attempt to outsource services, and they're charging an extortionate amount for it, with most of their funding from the HSE going on salaries for the people running the organisation.

I'm all for providing services for people, but the HSE can't provide services for people when they're funding the over-inflated salaries of a small minority that even then ask people who avail of their services for donations. Are they not getting enough already from the HSE that they still can't provide the services they provide without asking people who avail of their services for donations?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I used provide my services free of charge to charities who I thought would spend what money they saved, to provide more people with the services they claimed to provide. They didn't, and they don't, and that's why I got out of the charity sector and help people directly myself with what resources I have, rather than some middle-men purporting to be a charity, set up to siphon funds from the HSE to provide over-inflated salaries for themselves.

Think about it - in total, in just that year alone, 1in4 received €700k from the HSE. Less than 10% of that went to providing services for those people that needed them. That was in 2003, and they're still around 14 years later, how much in funding have they received from the HSE in that time? They're not by any means the only people at it either, but to pretend they're a charity providing a great service that couldn't be provided without them? I have to respectfully disagree and point out that the service they claim to provide could be provided even better without them.

please helpThank YOU

one in four people experience sexual abuse ? Ireland populations in 2017 is 4,738,370 people so one in four are Hear-saying with no facts our proof. That 1184592.5 people in Ireland are sexual abused in Ireland and we then give the likes of 1 in 4 . Millions of our tax payers money/euros on just Hearsay- evidence and the so called Charity Organisations takes our money the tax payers. this one in four need to be looked into more and show us the facts/evidence/proof.. before the get one more cent from the tax payers.

please helpThank YOU

eviltwin wrote: »

Well to be fair Jack, sexual abuse is not something a lot of people are going to be open about. It carries a huge stigma. Even today. I've spoken about my own experiences with sexual abuse here before but in real life only my husband and a close friend know. I wouldn't tell anyone else. I guess for other survivors its probably the same.

I work with abuse victims and their families and the first thing they ask is usually "will anyone find out"....no one wants to be known as the person who was abused.

One in 4 deal exclusively with adults and I'd imagine most of those people are in contact re historical abuse. It might not all be on the higher end of the scale like rape etc but if people are contacting them its obviously having an impact.

Abuse is horrible. I've had years of therapy, I in no way blame myself or feel that I was in some way deserving of what happened to me but I still have moments where I have to check myself because the thoughts in my heads are the thoughts of the abused child. Luckily I have no let it impact me too much but others are not so lucky. If organisations like 1 in 4 help these people achieve some peace of mind then good on them. Not everyone is in a position to afford private therapy.

did you ever work our know any one who worked with people who have been false accused of child abuse in Ireland ?

TresGats

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

one in four people experience sexual abuse ? Ireland populations in 2017 is 4,738,370 people so one in four are Hear-saying with no facts our proof. That 1184592.5 people in Ireland are sexual abused in Ireland and we then give the likes of 1 in 4 . Millions of our tax payers money/euros on just Hearsay- evidence and the so called Charity Organisations takes our money the tax payers. this one in four need to be looked into more and show us the facts/evidence/proof.. before the get one more cent from the tax payers.

Sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder after being' falsely accused' .

222233

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

one in four people experience sexual abuse ? Ireland populations in 2017 is 4,738,370 people so one in four are Hear-saying with no facts our proof. That 1184592.5 people in Ireland are sexual abused in Ireland and we then give the likes of 1 in 4 . Millions of our tax payers money/euros on just Hearsay- evidence and the so called Charity Organisations takes our money the tax payers. this one in four need to be looked into more and show us the facts/evidence/proof.. before the get one more cent from the tax payers.

I would imagine to prove beyond reasonable doubt one could only go on the cases where there has been a prosecution. Otherwise it's just he said/ she said in a survey. It could be done quite well though with a large sample size and trained professionals conducting in depth interviews on the general public to determine if their experiences constitute abuse.

mickstupp

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Millions of our tax payers money/euros on just Hearsay- evidence and the so called Charity Organisations takes our money the tax payers. this one in four need to be looked into more and show us the facts/evidence/proof.. before the get one more cent from the tax payers.

At the risk of being banned, your attitude is f***ing disgusting.

222233

mickstupp wrote: »

At the risk of being banned, your attitude is f***ing disgusting.

I agree in the sense it may be a tad ott but what's disgusting about asking for solid facts to back up a statistic that is being widely publicised?

mickstupp

^Because it's like the politicians in this country. Looking at numbers, not people. Focusing on the wrong thing, the organisation, and not the people they help, the people that need help.

That attitude has zero empathy whatsoever, they only think they give a sh*t.

They don't really.

222233

mickstupp wrote: »

^Because it's like the politicians in this country. Looking at numbers, not people. Focusing on the wrong thing, the organisation, and not the people they help, the people that need help.

That attitude has zero empathy whatsoever, they only think they give a sh*t.

They don't really.

I completely get what your saying, but a statistic like that is astounding, that;s why there are so many questions surrounding it.

In any case statistics should be factual especially if they are generating funds, in order to decipher the legitimacy of such a statistic one would need to be able to access all kinds of data, the methodology, the definition of abuse, the sample size, the categorisation of responses etc.

mickstupp

That's fine, sure, ask for stats, reliable stats, great.

The problem, what I find disgusting, is that "please helpThank YOU" would in a heartbeat withdraw a service that helps many people, thereby harming presumably hundreds who avail of the counselling and support that One In Four provides since our piece of **** government don't... all because "please helpThank YOU" has a problem with a claim about a number.

They call themselves One In Four, so cease all funding immediately. That's what "please helpThank YOU" wants, based on the last post.

The focus is on the organisation, and completely ignores the fact that some people are quite possibly relying on the help they receive from that organisation and others like it, to stay alive. Not counting the thousands who are still alive because of their service.

But hey... since they haven't backed up the claim of one in four, lets withdraw all the help that vulnerable people receive through them.

Mountainsandh

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm not talking about people who were smacked on the arse, I'm not sure many would consider themselves sexually abused because of that? I'm talking about sexual abuse, touching etc, which the poster I quoted doesn't seem to think is as serious or actual abuse if "penetration" wasn't involved. My point was its more than possible to seriously abuse a child without actually raping them in the strictest definition of the word

Also included in the questions in the Savi report, for childhood sexual abuse, is whether you were shown material of a pornographic nature, or of a sexual nature that made you feel uncomfortable as a child (less than 17 years old).
Respondents had to say yes/No.

So included in childhood sexual abuse, would be the exchange between a more savvy and hormone driven 16 year old youngster, showing a more naive and innocent 16 year old young male/female a pornographic video clip ? I am in contact with a lot of youngsters in the course of my job, and I can tell you that most of them could self-qualify as abused then.
I know this is part of a bigger picture, but frankly these details make a joke of the statistics presented.


SAVI report p.63

1. During your childhood or adolescence did anyone ever show you or persuade you to look at pornographic material (for example magazines, videos, internet, etc...) in a way that made you feel uncomfortable ?

222233 wrote: »

I would imagine to prove beyond reasonable doubt one could only go on the cases where there has been a prosecution. Otherwise it's just he said/ she said in a survey. It could be done quite well though with a large sample size and trained professionals conducting in depth interviews on the general public to determine if their experiences constitute abuse.

Actual reported and trialed cases were very few and far between in this survey, with few convictions, meaning that if we trust the justice system, and even allowing for difficulty in entering the system in the first place, few cases would have qualified in an official manner. Of course under-reporting is definitely something to consider.

SAVI report xxxviii (adobe p.38)

Legal redress for sexual crimes, as reported in this study, was
the exception rather than the rule. Of 38 individuals who reported
child sexual abuse to the Gardaí, six cases (16 per cent)
resulted in court proceedings with four guilty verdicts. Of 20
people reporting adult sexual assault, two court cases (10 per
cent) were taken with one resulting in a guilty verdict.

report executive summary xxxvii

• The most common reason people gave for not telling about
their abuse as children was because of feeling ashamed or
blaming themselves. A quarter of both men and women who
had experienced child sexual abuse reported these as the reasons
for not telling. These reasons were uncommon for those
who had experienced sexual violence as adults. A fifth of
adults had not disclosed sexual assault because they thought
that what had happened to them was too trivial to tell others.

I absolutely would not question the first part of this paragraph, about children.

As regards adults' "sexual assault" cases however, it's a different kettle of fish. If adults consider what happened to them as "too trivial" to tell others, can someone else (in this instance, the SAVI report team) decide for them that it was sexual abuse ?

I've had instances of flashers several times in my life (mostly funny), men who rub themselves against you in the bus, that kind of thing. This would be way too trivial for me to report it as sexual abuse. Yes, it's unpleasant, gross, inappropriate, shocking, disrespectful, infuriating, disgusting, distressing maybe for some.
Official sexual assault that I would like included in the stats it isn't, in my view.

It'd be like another woman elbowing me hard in the arm in the sales in Penneys, or someone shoving me away to get into the tram before I do. It's not on, it's rough, I could ring Jo to rant about it. To have that classified as battery would be a different level though.

Mountainsandh

mickstupp wrote: »

That's fine, sure, ask for stats, reliable stats, great.

The problem, what I find disgusting, is that "please helpThank YOU" would in a heartbeat withdraw a service that helps many people, thereby harming presumably hundreds who avail of the counselling and support that One In Four provides since our piece of **** government don't... all because "please helpThank YOU" has a problem with a claim about a number.

They call themselves One In Four, so cease all funding immediately. That's what "please helpThank YOU" wants, based on the last post.

The focus is on the organisation, and completely ignores the fact that some people are quite possibly relying on the help they receive from that organisation and others like it, to stay alive. Not counting the thousands who are still alive because of their service.

But hey... since they haven't backed up the claim of one in four, lets withdraw all the help that vulnerable people receive through them.

I totally get what you're saying, but it's a terrible option too I think.

It's justifying the present status quo.
While these dubious charities are still operating, the general public are no fools, and are losing faith in them. Well, I'm generalizing maybe and speaking for myself, but I prefer, nowadays, to give money to smaller outfits in my community rather than fund big organizations like the above, because I suspect foul play.
So while they are still providing services that, as you say, are absolutely essential, they are getting less from the public, and discrediting themselves in the process. If something happened to me, I would think twice of approaching them, if the reputation was that their CEO was sunning himself in the Bahamas on government/people's funding, on the back of misinformation.

Maybe the solution would be to outright dismantle such gigantic outfits, and provide more of these excellent free services/supports at a primary care/community level maybe. What I'm suggesting is simply to take the humongous sums of money from the CEO and redistribute at community level. Presumably the counselors are spread nationwide, and available to work in the same manner for communities.
It's up to us to shake up the ****ty government to do it.

Ferrari3600

Do people really and truly believe that 25% of the population have experienced sex abuse?

Sorry but I have a hard time believing that.

professore

Yourself isit wrote: »

Here are the categorizations.

. During your childhood or adolescence did anyone ever show you or persuade you to look at pornographic material (for example, magazines, videos, internet, etc.) in a way that made you feel uncomfortable?
2. Did anyone ever make you or persuade you to take off your clothes, or have you pose alone or with others in a sexually suggestive way or in ways that made you feel confused or uncomfortable in order to photograph or video you?
3. As a child or adolescent, did anyone expose their sexual organs to you?
4. During this time did anyone masturbate in front of you?
5. Did anyone touch your body, including your breasts or genitals, in a sexual way? a
6. During your childhood or adolescence, did anyone try to have you arouse them, or touch their body in a sexual way?
7. Did anyone rub their genitals against your body in a sexual way?
8. Did anyone attempt to have sexual intercourse with you?
9. Did anyone succeed in having sexual intercourse with you?
10. Did anyone, male or female, make you or persuade you to have oral sex?
11. Did a man make you or persuade you to have anal sex?
12. Did anyone put their fingers or objects in your vagina or anus (back passage)? a

Now it strikes me that I am in fact a victim, as in fact on a school trip to Paris we ( group of male and female 13 year olds getting off a bus) were accosted by a guy who had on a trench coat and nothing else. I remember giggling as the teacher told him to piss off.

In the table you will see that penatrative sexual activity is about 2%.

Include me. Some guy showed me some porn mags when I was 10 (so was he) and I was horrified that people actually did that stuff. This was pre internet. I'm a guy.

please helpThank YOU

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

one in four people experience sexual abuse ? Ireland populations in 2017 is 4,738,370 people so one in four are Hear-saying with no facts our proof. That 1184592.5 people in Ireland are sexual abused in Ireland and we then give the likes of 1 in 4 . Millions of our tax payers money/euros on just Hearsay- evidence and the so called Charity Organisations takes our money the tax payers. this one in four need to be looked into more and show us the facts/evidence/proof.. before the get one more cent from the tax payers.

one in four people in Ireland experience sexual abuse is just hearsay.I would like to see evidence to show this is true.

please helpThank YOU

mickstupp wrote: »

At the risk of being banned, your attitude is f***ing disgusting.

your post is like what Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan said about the Whistle blowers use of disgusting to describe Whistle blowers. I am saying what I think its called free thinking and you call me disgusting. We are not in north Korea I do not believe Hearsay evidence at one in four people in Ireland experience sexual abuse. Where is the Documentary evidence evidence in law to back up this Hearsay claim?

eviltwin

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

one in four people in Ireland experience sexual abuse is just hearsay.I would like to see evidence to show this is true.

They don't get funding based on that statistic. If they did I would be asking for proof. They get funding based on the therapy and support hours they provide. That they can very easily prove.