One in four people in Ireland experience sexual abuse.

.........

"In Ireland research has shown that one in four children (27%) will experience sexual abuse before the age of 18. Despite well publicized scandals and reports, many Irish people remain unable to respond to this problem and the long term damage it creates individually and at societal level. Our determined aim is to change this."

Instead there seem to be a great wall of silence over this current abuse going on in Irish society though.

Is sexual abuse to include things like being swatted on the backside in pubs? If that's the case I believe it but it's still misleading. I'd call that harassment rather than abuse.

.........

You threatening my family and friends with sexual abuse OP?

You looking to make it 1 in 3 are ye?

Lets see how brave you are at dawn, bring your pistol and a bodybag that will fit you.

Bon chance

No, as well you know, I hope it never happens one of them and I doubt you'll think it as funny if it does.

Yourself isit

......... wrote: »

Let me get this right, the claim is Dublin Rape Crisis Centre and other such organisations are producing false figures in order to defraud the state of funding ? What evidence is there of this ?



Pretty sad you think sexual abuse is funny, it might not be so funny when it happens one of your family or friends.

surely it has happened to one of his family or friends. Statistically speaking.

222233

......... wrote: »

Really you're claiming Dublin Rape Crisis Centre make up their figures and why ? What are you basing this allegation on exactly ?

As of last census approx. 4,713,993 people in the country
1 / 4 of this population would be 1, 178, 498.

The statistic says 1 in 4 experience sexual abuse; what does sexual abuse in the context of this statistic describe?

Is it including everything that is constituted as sexual abuse?

Sexual abuse can be physical, verbal or emotional and involves tricking, bribing, forcing, pressurising or threatening a child or teenager into sexual awareness or activity. Sexual abuse involves the use of a child or teenager by an older or more knowledgeable person for their own sexual pleasure. It often begins gradually and increases insidiously over time.

Irish Health

RDM_83 again

Noddyholder wrote: »

In Ireland research has shown that one in four children (27%) will experience sexual abuse before the age of 18. Despite well publicized scandals and reports, many Irish people remain unable to respond to this problem and the long term damage it creates individually and at societal level. Our determined aim is to change this.

Statistics source material: SAVI Report, The Ferns Report , The Ryan Report, The Murphy Report





That's were they get it from, its on there webpage.

As I said above using those as sources means your giving a historic figure not a figure for children now.

It's like if you carried out interviews of the general English population and asked if they had fought in a war, then used those figures to say that there is X chance of people fighting in a war today ignoring the fact the figure is completely skewed by WW2/Korean vets.

One eyed Jack

......... wrote: »

Really you're claiming Dublin Rape Crisis Centre make up their figures and why ? What are you basing this allegation on exactly ?

I'm basing it on the fact that I've read the RCNI's annual reports for the last number of years, I've been to the conferences, I've met the donors, I've met the people who are paid to massage these figures until they represent what those commissioning the research want them to suggest and support, so honestly - no, I outright reject the 1 in 4 nonsemse.

I've also studied international studies and numerous other sources to try and gain a more informed perspective on the scale of how they manage to compile the figures for these studies and surveys, and definitions alone vary wildly, as well as accounts, testimonials and subjective perspectives.

Objectivity is like a dirty word to many of these groups who virtue signal about helping people, but really all they're set up for is to syphon funding from the HSE and private donors. The contributions of the general public on flag days would only make up a pittance of their funding.

.........

surely it has happened to one of his family or friends. Statistically speaking.

I hope not, but possibly if he knew it all. Any rate is too high, whatever the rate.

222233

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm basing it on the fact that I've read the RCNI's annual reports for the last number of years, I've been to the conferences, I've met the donors, I've met the people who are paid to massage these figures until they represent what those commissioning the research want them to suggest and support, so honestly - no, I outright reject the 1 in 4 nonsemse.

.

I had a look at these reports too and felt the figures were much smaller than I would expect to support a one in four statistic. I am however curious they simply said "one in four experience sexual abuse", as this is quite a vague description there is the possibility that other incidents classified as sexual abuse are being incorporated into the figure?

Edit: DOES anyone have access to or know where one can find the research conducted as part of the one in four campaign?

.........

I'm basing it on the fact that I've read the RCNI's annual reports for the last number of years, I've been to the conferences, I've met the donors, I've met the people who are paid to massage these figures until they represent what those commissioning the research want them to suggest and support, so honestly - no, I outright reject the 1 in 4 nonsemse.

I've also studied international studies and numerous other sources to try and gain a more informed perspective on the scale of how they manage to compile the figures for these studies and surveys, and definitions alone vary wildly, as well as accounts, testimonials and subjective perspectives.

Objectivity is like a dirty word to many of these groups who virtue signal about helping people, but really all they're set up for is to syphon funding from the HSE and private donors. The contributions of the general public on flag days would only make up a pittance of their funding.

If the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, and One in Four are using false statistics to defraud the state of funding as you seem to be claiming, why have you not reported the fraud to the Garda ?

One eyed Jack

......... wrote: »

If the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, and One in Four are using false statistics to defraud the state of funding as you seem to be claiming, why have you not reported the fraud to the Garda ?

Because they're not committing fraud?

Their statistics aren't false, their survey and research methods are poor, but I never suggested any criminal behaviour.

Wibbs

......... wrote: »

If the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, and One in Four are using false statistics to defraud the state of funding as you seem to be claiming, why have you not reported the fraud to the Garda ?

Ahhh the perennial favourite of the rape panic quangos and their mouthpieces. I broke this down in a previous thread on a similar subject. Quick search and I found it. Some home truths for you....

*Me. In a previous thread.*

The Koss study(and I use the term broadly) back in the 1980's was the one that kicked this "one in four" stuff off and her methodology was beyond risible. It has since been repeated so often it has become a "fact", a meme. Sometimes it's 1 in 4, sometimes 1 in 3, now 1 in 5 seems the go to figure.

But let's not let facts get in the way of reality, god forbid...

US gov led studies(PDF) into the reported incidence of sexual violence* in the wider US shows at worst 5 in a 1000 women in 1995(the rates of what they term "completed rape" actually dropped from nearly 4 to under 2 per 1000 women from 1995-2010). These are averages taken over two year periods. So how do we get that figure up to one of 250 per 1000 women? Unless we want to believe that US colleges are rape centers of a level that would suggest military intervention? Interestingly and because of the panic surrounding this "study" and worries about lawsuits, colleges themselves by law have to compile and provide reported crime stats on campus - Example 1/Example 2 - and their stats reflect the wider national stats the government study found, not within an asses roar of "one in four" or five for that matter. Indeed a woman at college is at less risk of rape compared to her sisters outside.

But let's take another US government study(PDF) that seems to back the high figure up. As an exercise take out all other criteria of sexual victimisation* and just look at the stats for completed rapes. This comes to just under 2% of those surveyed. 2% is still far too many BTW.

However even looking at that 2% of would be defined in the common mind as "obvious rape" the report states;

"In each incident report, respondents were asked, “Do you consider this incident to be a rape?”. For the 86 incidents categorized as a completed rape, 46.5 percent (n = 40) of the women answered “yes,” 48.8 percent (n = 42) answered “no,” and 4.7 percent (n = 4) answered “don’t know.”.

So of the women in the study whose experience was considered to be clear cut, no question rape, nearly half of them didn't consider it to be. Now of course sexual assault is a minefield of horrible emotional upset and people can easily blot out an incident or pass it off at the time, but when nearly half of a survey of people who apparently fit the bill of full on rape state that they don't consider it such other questions have to be asked. In the original "1 in 4" Koss study this figure was even higher. 73% of those women didn't consider it rape(and 40 odd per cent of them continued sleeping with the same guy). Apparently we "should just believe women", except when it suits some not to of course...

It's not unlike the cops showing to your house and telling you you've been burgled because you're missing a couple of DVD's and you telling them that you gave them to a mate, yet they continue to insist it was a robbery and report it in the stats. You couldn't make this guff up folks. And because the R word is so emotive(naturally), you will rarely hear this unfounded stat being questioned, never mind debunked.









*This runs the gamut from rape through unwanted fondling to verbal threats of a sexual nature.

That enough for you OP?

.........

"
Because they're not committing fraud?

Their statistics aren't false, their survey and research methods are poor, but I never suggested any criminal behaviour."

You just claimed 10 minutes ago people are paid to massage the figures, and funding is obtained using these figures, so which is it ?

wakka12

Yeh Ireland's particularly perverted :roll eyes: Im sure women and children are so much safer in countries where law enforcement are hopelessly incompetent and corrupt and women are treated like dirt,and theres practically no rescources for those affected by sexual assault, which is a very large amount of countries in the world

Yourself isit

Here's the main report they tend to use.

http://www.oneinfour.ie/content/resources/savi.pdf

wakka12

Also as others have pointed out, this 'shocking' statistic is useless without any context. The criteria which was considered to determine whether it was sexual abuse is important info, as is the sample size of those interviewed, and the demographics of those interviewed, and then how they estimated the final 1 in 4 figure.

No point even discussing this figure unless these things are known

CIARAN_BOYLE

wakka12 wrote: »

Also as others have pointed out, this 'shocking' statistic is useless without any context. The criteria which was considered to determine whether it was sexual abuse is important info, as is the sample size of those interviewed, and the demographics of those interviewed, and then how they estimated the final 1 in 4 figure.

No point even discussing this figure unless these things are known

Agreed.

If you include two 15 year olds having sex with each other as both being abused (statutory rape) I wouldn't be surprised by the idea that one in four Irish people are abused.

Or if you include consensual sex when one or both parties have had a level of alcohol as abuse.

I'm sure 90% of the population would be abused by one of the two situations I mention above. 90% of the population though wouldnt really consider it abuse.

Wibbs

......... wrote: »

Any rate is too high, whatever the rate.

Indeed, but that's not an argument, it's arse covering and a way to dismiss any actual fact that may creep in. IE "1 in 4": Disproven/Reasonably questioned. Response: "well it doesn't matter if it's 1 in 4 or 1 in 40, or 400, 1 is too many! Rape is rape!" Eh yeah, but just because we have cases of malaria in Ireland every year, this does not mean Ireland has a malaria problem and it kinda does matter if one is looking for some sort of objective reality and not political or ideological bias.

Yourself isit

Here are the categorizations.

. During your childhood or adolescence did anyone ever show you or persuade you to look at pornographic material (for example, magazines, videos, internet, etc.) in a way that made you feel uncomfortable?
2. Did anyone ever make you or persuade you to take off your clothes, or have you pose alone or with others in a sexually suggestive way or in ways that made you feel confused or uncomfortable in order to photograph or video you?
3. As a child or adolescent, did anyone expose their sexual organs to you?
4. During this time did anyone masturbate in front of you?
5. Did anyone touch your body, including your breasts or genitals, in a sexual way? a
6. During your childhood or adolescence, did anyone try to have you arouse them, or touch their body in a sexual way?
7. Did anyone rub their genitals against your body in a sexual way?
8. Did anyone attempt to have sexual intercourse with you?
9. Did anyone succeed in having sexual intercourse with you?
10. Did anyone, male or female, make you or persuade you to have oral sex?
11. Did a man make you or persuade you to have anal sex?
12. Did anyone put their fingers or objects in your vagina or anus (back passage)? a

Now it strikes me that I am in fact a victim, as in fact on a school trip to Paris we ( group of male and female 13 year olds getting off a bus) were accosted by a guy who had on a trench coat and nothing else. I remember giggling as the teacher told him to piss off.

In the table you will see that penatrative sexual activity is about 2%.

.........

Ahhh the perennial favourite of the rape panic quangos and their mouthpieces. I broke this down in a previous thread on a similar subject. Quick search and I found it. Some home truths for you....

*Me. In a previous thread.*

The Koss study(and I use the term broadly) back in the 1980's was the one that kicked this "one in four" stuff off and her methodology was beyond risible. It has since been repeated so often it has become a "fact", a meme. Sometimes it's 1 in 4, sometimes 1 in 3, now 1 in 5 seems the go to figure.

But let's not let facts get in the way of reality, god forbid...

US gov led studies(PDF) into the reported incidence of sexual violence* in the wider US shows at worst 5 in a 1000 women in 1995(the rates of what they term "completed rape" actually dropped from nearly 4 to under 2 per 1000 women from 1995-2010). These are averages taken over two year periods. So how do we get that figure up to one of 250 per 1000 women? Unless we want to believe that US colleges are rape centers of a level that would suggest military intervention? Interestingly and because of the panic surrounding this "study" and worries about lawsuits, colleges themselves by law have to compile and provide reported crime stats on campus - Example 1/Example 2 - and their stats reflect the wider national stats the government study found, not within an asses roar of "one in four" or five for that matter. Indeed a woman at college is at less risk of rape compared to her sisters outside.

But let's take another US government study(PDF) that seems to back the high figure up. As an exercise take out all other criteria of sexual victimisation* and just look at the stats for completed rapes. This comes to just under 2% of those surveyed. 2% is still far too many BTW.

However even looking at that 2% of would be defined in the common mind as "obvious rape" the report states;

"In each incident report, respondents were asked, “Do you consider this incident to be a rape?”. For the 86 incidents categorized as a completed rape, 46.5 percent (n = 40) of the women answered “yes,” 48.8 percent (n = 42) answered “no,” and 4.7 percent (n = 4) answered “don’t know.”.

So of the women in the study whose experience was considered to be clear cut, no question rape, nearly half of them didn't consider it to be. Now of course sexual assault is a minefield of horrible emotional upset and people can easily blot out an incident or pass it off at the time, but when nearly half of a survey of people who apparently fit the bill of full on rape state that they don't consider it such other questions have to be asked. In the original "1 in 4" Koss study this figure was even higher. 73% of those women didn't consider it rape(and 40 odd per cent of them continued sleeping with the same guy). Apparently we "should just believe women", except when it suits some not to of course...

It's not unlike the cops showing to your house and telling you you've been burgled because you're missing a couple of DVD's and you telling them that you gave them to a mate, yet they continue to insist it was a robbery and report it in the stats. You couldn't make this guff up folks. And because the R word is so emotive(naturally), you will rarely hear this unfounded stat being questioned, never mind debunked.

Some home truths for you....

The real truth is, before you went off half cocked, in the OP one of my primary question was how accurate are the statistics for Ireland. I'm not into the political spin by them or you.

So the abuse statistics in common used in Ireland by abuse support organisations are made up. I have yet to see any convincing evidence that is true, but I'm open to accurate independent statistics and studies for IRELAND if you have any, rather than ranting about the USA.

Lets say we should believe you instead of the Dublin Rape Crisis centre, One in Four, CARI, etc. etc. etc., what are the accurate statistics in Ireland, because that's what I'm interested in right from the beginning of the OP.

One eyed Jack

......... wrote: »

You just claimed 10 minutes ago people are paid to massage the figures, and funding is obtained using these figures, so which is it ?

It's political views informing social surveys. There's nothing criminal about it. Presenting a picture to further a particular agenda to gain funding isn't in itself criminal behaviour. In pretty much the same way you're trying to misrepresent the content of my posts to suggest something I never said. If you could get paid for that now you could set up your own charity and you'd be on the pigs back.

222233

I read the savi report if anyone is interested go to pages 63 and 65, then 68.

I am wondering what the methodology for analysis of sexual abuse was, at a glance when I add it up the figures of 25 % are reciprocal of an accumulative tot of all the yes answers?

I doubt this is the case though.. as this would be inaccurate given that a participant could have answered yes to more than one incident of abuse and therefore would be re-added to the pool even though they were already accounted for..

.........

Indeed, but that's not an argument, it's arse covering and a way to dismiss any actual fact that may creep in. IE "1 in 4": Disproven/Reasonably questioned. Response: "well it doesn't matter if it's 1 in 4 or 1 in 40, or 400, 1 is too many! Rape is rape!" Eh yeah, but just because we have cases of malaria in Ireland every year, this does not mean Ireland has a malaria problem and it kinda does matter if one is looking for some sort of objective reality and not political or ideological bias.

We already know your claim, that according to you, the rates for Ireland are false and manufactured, so what are they and how did you arrive at them ?

222233

wakka12 wrote: »

Also as others have pointed out, this 'shocking' statistic is useless without any context. The criteria which was considered to determine whether it was sexual abuse is important info, as is the sample size of those interviewed, and the demographics of those interviewed, and then how they estimated the final 1 in 4 figure.

No point even discussing this figure unless these things are known

The sample size of the report cited was 3,000 I believe, I completely agree however that without a context it is impossible to determine the validity with regards to the statement of one in four.

The_Valeyard

maybe they've a load of volunteers who go around touching people up to keep that figure at one in four.

jameorahiely

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The usual click-baity type stats. They work out how many people have admitted that they were abused, then they multiply it by the highest possible factor of people who may not be telling the truth or are hiding what happened.

I got whistled at the other day. Recalculating to account for that....


X+1*1.5. Carry the 1....


Oh my god, EVERYONE in the country has been sexually abused.

222233

......... wrote: »

We already know your claim, that according to you, the rates for Ireland are false and manufactured, so what are they and how did you arrive at them ?

I think people are more querying the methodology for this research and the definition of sexual abuse as per the statement "one in four have been sexually abused".

In the study I read it was dependant upon yes/no answers, in the grand scheme of things some of the matters responded to with a yes may not constitute sexual abuse and so for some of the questions responses would need to be indepthly analysed.

.........

I think people are more querying the methodology for this research and the definition of sexual abuse as per the statement "one in four have been sexually abused".

In the study I read it was dependant upon yes/no answers, in the grand scheme of things some of the matters responded to with a yes may not constitute sexual abuse and so for some of the questions responses would need to be indepthly analysed.

So what are the accurate rates ? Or are you saying that there are none anywhere for Ireland ?
If that is the case, that in itself is pretty worrying, that something so important has so little priory. Any serious attempt to deal with the issue nationally needs accurate stats, or are people just more interested in the politics ?

One eyed Jack

......... wrote: »

So what are the accurate rates ? Or are you saying that there are none anywhere for Ireland ?
If that is the case, that in itself is pretty worrying, that something so important has so little priory. Any serious attempt to deal with the issue nationally needs accurate stats, or are people just more interested in the politics ?

Nobody can tell you with any certainty what the actual figures are. Some people genuinely are only interested in helping people, but all too often there are more people more interested in helping themselves.

RobbingBandit

Creepy little bastid in school was expelled for touching me multiple times in 5th year in school nearly 20 years ago now still gives me shivers thinking about it ten years later I was diagnosed with autism which would have been a life long issue present when that ****e was doing what he did, if I ever see the freak again he will suffer.