FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTICE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

BemusedKettle

what's the book that everyone akways recommends that you read for constitutional?

Supermax1988

BemusedKettle wrote: »

what's the book that everyone akways recommends that you read for constitutional?

The Supreme Court by Ruadhan Mac Cormaic

Sineaddh

Does anyone know if firms will be hiring for 2021 aswell as 2020 when the milk rounds open this autumn?

Also when is generally the closing date for applications and when do you hear about interviews etc? Probably getting a bit ahead of myself but trying to plan re annual leave/exam leave.

Thanks!

Daly29

TCPIP wrote: »

Does anybody have the spring 2019 Constitutional paper? I'd be very grateful.

I don't but I got this from a previous comment, hopefully of some help. Would be grateful also. Anyway here is what I have:

1 Problem Q. Challenge to an international agreement that Ireland is entering into.

Q2 Essay Q. Mallack v Minister for Justice
Fair Procedures
Duty to give reasons

Q3 Essay Q. Referenda. Mc Kenna (2) and Mc Crystal represent inappropriate interferences with politics. Information & Funding:

Q4 Case Note Q.

M v Min for Justice and Equality (2018)
Unborn;

Meadows v Minister for Justice; Re Art 26 and the Employment Equality Bill 1996;
Fair Procedures
Duty to give reasons

Persona Digital Telephony v Min for Public Enterprise.
Locus Standi
Plaintiff must have interest in case and argument being made

Q5 Problem Q. Blood sample taken from Paula by Gardaí after road traffic accident turns back a negative and no charges are brought. Years later she applies for a job as a teaching assistant and is turned down because it says the Gardaí informed the school that she was likely to have been under the influence of alcohol. Advise Paula in context of the retention of the blood sample and the disclosure of information. I wrote about the right to privacy and the right to earn a liveihood mainly. Not sure if that was the right tack. Tricky one.

Q6 Prob Q. Betty's house is searched by Gardaí. Gun found. Warrant was wrong and Gardaí knew that. I wrote about unconstitutionally obtained evidence here.

Q7 Essay Q. That the Irish constitution gives an unusually strong protection to property rights is overstated and the Oireachtas actually has quite some latitude.

Q8 Problem Q. Michael wears a cross overtly to work every day in the dept of agriculture. The dept issues a circular saying that such jewellery of any kind. Constitutional recourse for Michael. Religion and the Heaney proportionality test were relevant to this question in my view.


I thought it was a fair paper overall. Further evidence that the case note question is a waste of time. Basically had 7 questions to work with. The case note question is often a shaft in constitutional and is almost always a shaft in EU in my opinion.

TCPIP

Thank you so much.

Breacnua

Daly29 wrote: »

I don't but I got this from a previous comment, hopefully of some help. Would be grateful also. Anyway here is what I have:

1 Problem Q. Challenge to an international agreement that Ireland is entering into.

Q2 Essay Q. Mallack v Minister for Justice
Fair Procedures
Duty to give reasons

Q3 Essay Q. Referenda. Mc Kenna (2) and Mc Crystal represent inappropriate interferences with politics. Information & Funding:

Q4 Case Note Q.

M v Min for Justice and Equality (2018)
Unborn;

Meadows v Minister for Justice; Re Art 26 and the Employment Equality Bill 1996;
Fair Procedures
Duty to give reasons

Persona Digital Telephony v Min for Public Enterprise.
Locus Standi
Plaintiff must have interest in case and argument being made

Q5 Problem Q. Blood sample taken from Paula by Gardaí after road traffic accident turns back a negative and no charges are brought. Years later she applies for a job as a teaching assistant and is turned down because it says the Gardaí informed the school that she was likely to have been under the influence of alcohol. Advise Paula in context of the retention of the blood sample and the disclosure of information. I wrote about the right to privacy and the right to earn a liveihood mainly. Not sure if that was the right tack. Tricky one.

Q6 Prob Q. Betty's house is searched by Gardaí. Gun found. Warrant was wrong and Gardaí knew that. I wrote about unconstitutionally obtained evidence here.

Q7 Essay Q. That the Irish constitution gives an unusually strong protection to property rights is overstated and the Oireachtas actually has quite some latitude.

Q8 Problem Q. Michael wears a cross overtly to work every day in the dept of agriculture. The dept issues a circular saying that such jewellery of any kind. Constitutional recourse for Michael. Religion and the Heaney proportionality test were relevant to this question in my view.


I thought it was a fair paper overall. Further evidence that the case note question is a waste of time. Basically had 7 questions to work with. The case note question is often a shaft in constitutional and is almost always a shaft in EU in my opinion.

when you say shaft, do you mean it is so random its beyond a lottery what the case note might be or do you mean its hard marked ?

Daly29

Breacnua wrote: »

when you say shaft, do you mean it is so random its beyond a lottery what the case note might be or do you mean its hard marked ?

Hi, I saved this comment down in my notes when I saw someone put it up after the last constitution exam so I am just regurgitating someone else who helpfully put these notes up.

I'd guess they mean random. From reading the exam reports they more often than not say this Q was answered successfully.

vid36

Daly29 wrote: »

Hi, I saved this comment down in my notes when I saw someone put it up after the last constitution exam so I am just regurgitating someone else who helpfully put these notes up.

I'd guess they mean random. From reading the exam reports they more often than not say this Q was answered successfully.

It is impossible to predict which cases will appear in my opinion.

lawless11

vid36 wrote: »

It is impossible to predict which cases will appear in my opinion.

I feel it is indeed impossible to predict, though I was lucky with Constitutional this year as I 'predicted' the 2018 case (I was banking M and it came up, and was thinking about any of the Equality bill ones... and it came up too, even though I didn't really prepare this one, so yep, luck). It's like, either you just abandon the prospects of doing that question and you focus on the 7 remaining, or you just play the fate, pick the cases you learn, and well, pray.

bigtophat13

It's definitely very hard, a lot of them you'll inevitably have studied over the course, a lot of fair procedure ones come up and there's always 1-2 new SC cases from what I saw. Also, with the M one, a lot predicted that based on the fact abortion would have been too moot a topic to give a full question given the repeal, however it was such a core topic for so long there was a good chance they'd try give it some focus and that was the best place to do so.

I had never planned to do it and ended up doing it and was luckily fine, had seen the digiphone case as being a good shout given how much access to litigation is being asked these days and the fact it came up in full questions recently before meant it was likely gonna come up there if anywhere, and then I was lucky with the Re Art 26 case just from having studied all the presidential references.

The core point of the above is a mixture of prediction with a hefty amount of luck

lawless11

On another note, if anybody would like that Supreme Court book, I'm looking to declutter my place so you can drop me a PM if you'd be interested in getting it. (And other materials for FE1s too possibly).

Smiley283

Would anyone have a EU grid they could share with me? I'd really appreciate it

Silence88

Hi guys. Does anyone have notes for Company or EU that they'd be willing to share? I've notes for all the other subject, as well as exam reports and past papers that I could swap.
Thanks

JohnsKite

How do the fe-1s compare to college law exams at marking - do they expect the same level of detail?

Jimdtug1

JohnsKite wrote: »

How do the fe-1s compare to college law exams at marking - do they expect the same level of detail?

Think Junior Cert and Leaving Cert

JohnsKite

Jimdtug1 wrote: »

Think Junior Cert and Leaving Cert

So pretty basic/straight forward?

Yohnathan

Jesus you must have had an awful tough junior or leaving cert. For me, the FE-1's were much harder than school exams, undergraduate and postgraduate exams. I definitely wouldn't call them basic/straight forward. I never failed any of my junior, leaving cert or 3rd level exams. I have failed many FE-1s in the past.

ally1234

Yohnathan wrote: »

Jesus you must have had an awful tough junior or leaving cert. For me, the FE-1's were much harder than school exams, undergraduate and postgraduate exams. I definitely wouldn't call them basic/straight forward. I never failed any of my junior, leaving cert or 3rd level exams. I have failed many FE-1s in the past.

Same!! I flew through school and college no bother. Those FE1 exams made me feel thick as a brick and I ended up doubting myself and my abilities. Glad Im finished with them, good riddance to that arduous process, my life was pretty much on hold the last three years. Zero fun.....

Yohnathan

ally1234 wrote: »

Same!! I flew through school and college no bother. Those FE1 exams made me feel thick as a brick and I ended up doubting myself and my abilities. Glad Im finished with them, good riddance to that arduous process, my life was pretty much on hold the last three years. Zero fun.....

Haha tell me about it! 3 years of torture. Finally finished. Booked flights to South America at the end of August/start of September for my first big holiday in years then realized that Blackhall may be starting in the first week of September The Law Society still haunts me :pac::D

Tony_TwoLegs

Does anyone have any point of reference for the King's Inns exams?
Unlike the FE1s I can't find any retort/ guidance.

I've actually passed the FE1s so I'm no stranger to the work. However, is there more depth required does anyone know? Ie. 3Q in 3 hours (out of 5Qs)

ally1234

Yohnathan wrote: »

Haha tell me about it! 3 years of torture. Finally finished. Booked flights to South America at the end of August/start of September for my first big holiday in years then realized that Blackhall may be starting in the first week of September The Law Society still haunts me :pac::D

Aw wow enjoy South America, you luck thing but so well deserved!!

So glad to be finished these rotten exams. Now Im on the job hunt for a training contract, they seem slim on the ground for Blackhall 2019 entry, all the Dublin firms seem to be recruiting for Blackhall 2020?

By way of background i worked full time the last six years as a legal secretary, four of which i spent studying for the FE1's. My current job has no training positions available. Am i clutching at straws hoping to get a training contract before this September. I know time is ticking!!! Any advice/insight is much appreciated as always!

Tony_TwoLegs

ally1234 wrote: »

Aw wow enjoy South America, you luck thing but so well deserved!!

So glad to be finished these rotten exams. Now Im on the job hunt for a training contract, they seem slim on the ground for Blackhall 2019 entry, all the Dublin firms seem to be recruiting for Blackhall 2020?

By way of background i worked full time the last six years as a legal secretary, four of which i spent studying for the FE1's. My current job has no training positions available. Am i clutching at straws hoping to get a training contract before this September. I know time is ticking!!! Any advice/insight is much appreciated as always!

Approach smaller firms and say you'll fund the PPC1 yourself. Therefore, joining them in April.
That's if you can afford this. Get a loan?
Qualify a year earlier = higher wages sooner.

ally1234

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

Approach smaller firms and say you'll fund the PPC1 yourself. Therefore, joining them in April.
That's if you can afford this. Get a loan?
Qualify a year earlier = higher wages sooner.

True. Ideally need a contract in the west. Rents in Dublin for a training period is what is holding me back. Can get credit, but need to sort things out fast if i am to get a place in Blackhall for this September! Fe1 stress ends now another begins. Oh the joys of this wonderful profession!

Yohnathan

ally1234 wrote: »

Aw wow enjoy South America, you luck thing but so well deserved!!

So glad to be finished these rotten exams. Now Im on the job hunt for a training contract, they seem slim on the ground for Blackhall 2019 entry, all the Dublin firms seem to be recruiting for Blackhall 2020?

By way of background i worked full time the last six years as a legal secretary, four of which i spent studying for the FE1's. My current job has no training positions available. Am i clutching at straws hoping to get a training contract before this September. I know time is ticking!!! Any advice/insight is much appreciated as always!

Yeah, I have seen most places are looking for 2020 trainees. I'm not sure really. I interviewed for a few places in small and medium but for me the money wasn't appealing. I have nearly 5 years experience. 1 in a firm and 3.5 in house, all as a paralegal.

Dublin is not ideal for training with the wages v rent scenario.

The funding PPC 1 yourself scenario is not a bad idea. I am debating that myself although I am waiting to hear back from my employer as to whether they will train me in-house and pay fees.

Post FE-1 Blues :eek:

Tony_TwoLegs

ally1234 wrote: »

True. Ideally need a contract in the west. Rents in Dublin for a training period is what is holding me back. Can get credit, but need to sort things out fast if i am to get a place in Blackhall for this September! Fe1 stress ends now another begins. Oh the joys of this wonderful profession!

I think you can do the PPC1 without a training contract. You USED to be able anyways.
Approach firms saying you'll be PPC1 finished. Fund it yourself.
I seriously think you'll struggle to find a fully sponsored traineeship now (in June). I found it hard with a 1.1 Masters and 2.1 BCL.
I found two then and ended up taking neither

Daly29

ally1234 wrote: »

Same!! I flew through school and college no bother. Those FE1 exams made me feel thick as a brick and I ended up doubting myself and my abilities. Glad Im finished with them, good riddance to that arduous process, my life was pretty much on hold the last three years. Zero fun.....

In fairness the person asked the difference of difficulty between college and FE1. Think he meant to think of college like Junior Cert difficulty (easy) and FE1 lke Leaving Cert in comparison (much more work)

ArthurDayne

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

Does anyone have any point of reference for the King's Inns exams?
Unlike the FE1s I can't find any retort/ guidance.

I've actually passed the FE1s so I'm no stranger to the work. However, is there more depth required does anyone know? Ie. 3Q in 3 hours (out of 5Qs)

Out of interest, if you have passed the FE1s and have a training contract, are you not just better off seeing the TC out and then transferring to the Bar after qualifying? I think there's a less onerous process for those who are already specially qualified -- like a solicitor.

I don't relly know the ins and outs of it, but I was just curious.

Tony_TwoLegs

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Out of interest, if you have passed the FE1s and have a training contract, are you not just better off seeing the TC out and then transferring to the Bar after qualifying? I think there's a less onerous process for those who are already specially qualified -- like a solicitor.

I don't relly know the ins and outs of it, but I was just curious.

Yeah you'd be wondering lol.
I've been in practice 8/9months now and it ain't for me.
I've actually been in 3 firms over the years, so it's not that one firm either.

The role of a barrister is more me.
The barrister degree makes you quite attractive if you were to convert too (less than 100 qualifying a year) and it's a whole lot easier to convert from barrister to solicitor than vice versa.

I hear your point though. Yep it's not an easy choice but too many people are blinded by the idea of being a solicitor and then realise 'hold on... is this It?'.
I'm just acting before it is too late and can always convert if it didn't work out.

yournerd

Have people submitted their ppc1 application?

hullaballoo

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

Yeah you'd be wondering lol.
I've been in practice 8/9months now and it ain't for me.
I've actually been in 3 firms over the years, so it's not that one firm either.

The role of a barrister is more me.
The barrister degree makes you quite attractive if you were to convert too (less than 100 qualifying a year) and it's a whole lot easier to convert from barrister to solicitor than vice versa.

I hear your point though. Yep it's not an easy choice but too many people are blinded by the idea of being a solicitor and then realise 'hold on... is this It?'.
I'm just acting before it is too late and can always convert if it didn't work out.

BL degrees are not uncommon. While there are fewer than 100 per year qualifying now, you have to remember that up until the crash, that number was 220-250 per year. Barristers are 10-a-penny so to speak, as against the demand for the qualification. The degree was hugely cheapened by a period of what can only be termed downright greed. Even 80-100 or whatever the number is now is far too many for an already flooded market.

Add to the above the fact that barristers fees have been riven over the past 10 years to a point where most of the work just isn't worth the time. I know people reading this will be thinking "ah, it can't be that bad..." Frankly, it is. The mainstay of the bar for years was personal injuries, by far the most common kind of case for any civil practitioner. Both in terms of volume of cases and fees for them, this has fallen away completely and is now not alone capable of sustaining anyone at the bar (a few of the busier and better-known practitioners aside, who have the caseload to absorb the pitiful fees.)

In terms of solid figures in relation to the above. When I started at the bar 10 years ago, a Circuit Court personal injuries claim that settled after setting down for trial would be probably €1,500-2,000 for the Plaintiff JC. These are typically €600-750 now. If it settles before setting down for trial, you get the fee for drafting the summons (maybe some pity money on top) so, €200-300. There are many reasons why this is the case but market economics accounts for a proportion of it.

There are absolutely no guarantees of success no matter how good you are. On the basis of my observations at the bar, some factors that will influence how successful you are might be (in this order) family connections, other pre-existing connections (former colleagues, political etc.), luck, personality (affability, exuberance, even eccentricity), who you devil with, what school you went to, how good-looking you are, how memorable your name is...[long list of other things.]

Ability is in there somewhere in fairness but other factors will influence whether your ability ever gets discovered, and what any given barrister might consider to be "ability" can often be wildly different from what (a) other barristers (b) judges and (c) solicitors consider to be ability.

You might be one of the people who can carve out a niche or work in very specific areas and become one of a very small number of practitioners in a given area but there are obvious difficulties with this approach. Primarily, a legislative reform of that area could kill your practice stone dead overnight. Secondarily, you are diluting the pool. Tertiarily (bear with me!), it's very difficult to identify niches from the outside (like any niche-targeting exercise really.)

All the other crap that self-employed people have to deal with is relevant here too. Don't forget there are huge administrative overheads to being self-employed.

The market for second-hand barristers (i.e. seeking employment qua Counsel) isn't great either - most places looking to hire in-house Counsel want Counsel with in-house experience and not litigators.

Also, litigation as a means of resolving disputes is becoming less and less "popular" - ADR is being promoted at all levels within the legal profession.

Listen, I could go on and on.

TL;DR I suppose, I would not consider a career at the bar to be a career as such, more an expensive and not very rewarding hobby.