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Calls for major culling in Wicklow.

  • 21-02-2017 9:24pm
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Seen this article while perusing.

    Would those numbers be accurate. Even on the low end?

    There has never been a nation wide census done to even get a rough idea of deer numbers and the difference between the low number and high number in the article is fairly substantial. I've seen other reports saying there were only 150,000 deer in the whole country. Of course that was never confirmed either so take it all with a pinch of salt.

    If it's true and they go for it at some point i can see the season either being opened for the whole year or a crap load of section 42s being issued.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭ Mech1


    If anyone here has any influence, slow and steady reduction, no knee jerk reactions.

    longer season 1 month at a time and get proper accurate counts done.

    If done wrong (as usual),

    could be a mess.

    BTW I dont shoot or hold a licence anymore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ .243


    Those numbers can't be verified as a proper census hasn't been done


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭ ganmo


    .243 wrote: »
    Those numbers can't be verified as a proper census hasn't been done
    how would ya get an accurate count?
    do they even know the annual amount shot?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    This call for a cull has been around for a long time. I've only dipped my toe into the stalking in the last 6 years but it's mainly in the Wicklow areas and this subject comes up every season. Two years ago we heard the whispers but nought came of it.
    There are many who'll tell you that the Coilite cull figures are not realistic and could be increased, but then again ink won't refuse paper on the returns so God only knows the actual culling figures. There have been in season section 42's issued on Coilite woods especially around the hillside farms. I've had sections that ranged from the ridiculously low - 1 animal over 12 weeks on a small farm to ridiculously high - 30 in less then a month on little more than a football field. The department needs to get their act together, do a proper census but then again we're not doing ourselves any favours with lads boasting with exaggerated figures and others not reporting a fraction of their culls.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,516 Maudi


    Cass wrote: »
    Seen this article while perusing.

    Would those numbers be accurate. Even on the low end?

    There has never been a nation wide census done to even get a rough idea of deer numbers and the difference between the low number and high number in the article is fairly substantial. I've seen other reports saying there were only 150,000 deer in the whole country. Of course that was never confirmed either so take it all with a pinch of salt.

    If it's true and they go for it at some point i can see the season either being opened for the whole year or a crap load of section 42s being issued.
    Theres no way theres anywhere near 150 thou..
    Id be out a lot in the hills a lot.the terrain is mostly under coillte rubbish trees not suitable for deer .id guess 12 to 20 thou


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  • Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭ DogfoxCork


    that figure seems very sensationalised! proper management is key to conservation. not knee jerk culls


  • Registered Users Posts: 682 barnaman


    No nothing about deer in Wicklow but read the article and thought 150,000 deer in Wicklow!!!

    118,957 cattle in Wicklow at the last agricultural census in 2010. How could there be more deer than cattle in the county?


    http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/agriculture/2010/full2010.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭ dodderangler


    Unless they now live in burrows there's not a hope there's 150,000


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    barnaman wrote: »
    No nothing about deer in Wicklow but read the article and thought 150,000 deer in Wicklow!!!

    118,957 cattle in Wicklow at the last agricultural census in 2010. How could there be more deer than cattle in the county?


    http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/agriculture/2010/full2010.pdf

    Wicklow population 142,332 , more deer than humans?:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭ Capercaillie


    I know several farmers in region locked up with bTB with closed herds and no badgers around. Increased incidences of deer on farms. 1 in 10 farms with bTB. Large cull needed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭ DogfoxCork


    and here comes the can of worms! (reminisces back to the pine martin thread!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭ grassroot1


    I know several farmers in region locked up with bTB with closed herds and no badgers around. Increased incidences of deer on farms. 1 in 10 farms with bTB. Large cull needed.

    I doubt that any farm is badger free and they do cover quite a distance each night when I was involved in culling and testing infection rates were running at 10%
    The problems with deer is that they are being harassed in their usual haunts and are moving into areas where they are coming into contact with cattle.
    With farmers its like the woodpigeons 1000's on the barley eating everything in sight you get there and you see nothing


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,929 ✭✭✭ Birdnuts


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Wicklow population 142,332 , more deer than humans?:rolleyes:

    Tis a bit bizarre alright - I'd be very doubtful about that figure too knowing the area between Blessington and Brittas very well. Poaching gangs and licenced culling by landowners has definatly dropped the population here and generally along the Kildare/Wicklow border over the last 5 years. Know a good few landowners in that area and they have noticed the drop too


  • Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭ Captainaxiom


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    I doubt that any farm is badger free and they do cover quite a distance each night when I was involved in culling and testing infection rates were running at 10%
    The problems with deer is that they are being harassed in their usual haunts and are moving into areas where they are coming into contact with cattle.
    With farmers its like the woodpigeons 1000's on the barley eating everything in sight you get there and you see nothing

    The amount of times I've been plagued by farmer to call up claiming the sky is black with crows or you can't get into the shed with the amount of pigeons and I arrive up to blue sky's and clear barns.

    I think the scale they work off is see one and add two zeros.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    The amount of times I've been plagued by farmer to call up claiming the sky is black with crows or you can't get into the shed with the amount of pigeons and I arrive up to blue sky's and clear barns.

    I think the scale they work off is see one and add two zeros.


    Aaahhh tis the same with the old 'country mile' ......those lads in the city could never get their head around them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭ Crow Pigeon and Pheasant


    Sure at that rate we must have 200,000 crows! And about the same amount of pigeons!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭ ezra_


    Those sneaky, sneaky Wicklow deer.

    There are plenty of them, but nothing like that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭ ganmo


    Has anyone found the report?
    I tried to find it online but came up empty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭ grassroot1


    There is a two page spread on the cull in the Farmers journal have to read it still so cannot says anything about content


  • Registered Users Posts: 682 barnaman


    read a bit of it. Said farmers can only kill 2 or 3 deer and that had to be 5 year old stags/10 points. Thought no such restrictons on deer in Ireland


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭ J.R.




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭ ganmo


    J.R. wrote: »

    none of them are the actual report
    i found https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/deermanagement/IrishDeerManageForum2nd151215.pdf
    and
    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiGlOfeqK7SAhVpI8AKHZpGAygQFgg7MAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.agriculture.gov.ie%2Fmedia%2Fmigration%2Fanimalhealthwelfare%2Fdiseasecontrols%2Ftuberculosistbandbrucellosis%2Fdiseaseeradicationpolicy%2FIrelandTBProgramme20172018010616.doc&usg=AFQjCNHhiSGu0hlIq2fuRqhzGwfD7EY6Kg&bvm=bv.148073327,d.ZGg

    the first is the minutes of the deer management forum may '15
    and the second gives results of tb testing for cattle deer etc with an incidence in cattle of under 1% and the postive results for deer in around 20%.
    i accept sampling bias may come into the deer presented for analysis but yikes lads its hard to disagree with the prevalence of tb in the deer population


  • Registered Users Posts: 668 blackpearl


    The amount of times I've been plagued by farmer to call up claiming the sky is black with crows or you can't get into the shed with the amount of pigeons and I arrive up to blue sky's and clear barns.

    I think the scale they work off is see one and add two zeros.

    Less of the slagging of farmers without them you would be sitting at home at the fire ,at least you made the effort to call up.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,355 Mod ✭✭✭✭ smacl


    I see they'er talking about gorse burning as a solution now; http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/gorse-burning-mooted-as-a-possible-solution-to-wicklow-deer-problem/

    Not a hunter myself, but it seems like a bit more hunting would be a far more environmentally sound solution. Slightly off topic, but what's the craic with butchering and preparing the meat? I'd guess Wicklow venison could be pretty tasty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 668 blackpearl


    smacl wrote: »
    I see they'er talking about gorse burning as a solution now; http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/gorse-burning-mooted-as-a-possible-solution-to-wicklow-deer-problem/

    Not a hunter myself, but it seems like a bit more hunting would be a far more environmentally sound solution. Slightly off topic, but what's the craic with butchering and preparing the meat? I'd guess Wicklow venison could be pretty tasty.

    Fit them better lf they would butn the heather to improve the numbers of grouse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭ Sika98k


    50,000 deer, paper never refused ink.

    On another topic contained in here , if cattle were subjected to the same vigorous testing the deer in the cull were subjected to it would be a different story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭ grassroot1


    Sika98k wrote: »
    50,000 deer, paper never refused ink.

    On another topic contained in here , if cattle were subjected to the same vigorous testing the deer in the cull were subjected to it would be a different story.

    What extra testing is done on deer that is not done on cattle?
    For the record every single bovine animal in the state is tested at least once per year for TB. Every animal slaughtered is subject to vet inspection/pm. We need to be careful with our choice of language when speaking on this subject, the reality is there are TB blackspots in west Wicklow. Deer may be a vector in the spread of the disease but if they are they are only part of the problem.
    Hunting can have a part to play in reducing deer numbers but to talk about culling 50000 deer that is just BS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭ Sika98k


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    What extra testing is done on deer that is not done on cattle?
    For the record every single bovine animal in the state is tested at least once per year for TB. Every animal slaughtered is subject to vet inspection/pm. We need to be careful with our choice of language when speaking on this subject, the reality is there are TB blackspots in west Wicklow. Deer may be a vector in the spread of the disease but if they are they are only part of the problem.
    Hunting can have a part to play in reducing deer numbers but to talk about culling 50000 deer that is just BS.

    @grassroots1. Firstly I said the cull. Just the cull. Otherwise all animals going for human consumption are subjected to the same level of testing.

    The deer culled were tested far more stringently than normal. Read the reports.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭ ganmo


    Sika98k wrote: »
    @grassroots1. Firstly I said the cull. Just the cull. Otherwise all animals going for human consumption are subjected to the same level of testing.

    The deer culled were tested far more stringently than normal. Read the reports.

    Which reports?

    I reckon the deer tested were brought direct to the 'culture' stage of the tb testing procedure where cattle have to go through the full spectrum which is skin test - vet inspection of glands etc - culture


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ .243


    A good heather burn is the first step before any major "cull" is required,
    There is zero food on the hills (ever since the glorious e.u decidedly to categorise the wicklow uplands never to be touched)hence why it's needed to stop anymore venturing down,what has come down from the hill over the years Never needed to go back up as they found out that the lowlands have small pockets of forestry in nearly each farmland to hide in,


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