Motorway from Dublin to Sligo Needed Badly

Andy From Sligo

Jayop wrote: »

I am realistic the kinnegad to longford section of the n4 should be motorway. After that a mix of duel carriage way and decent non death trap single lane would suffice.

Also with this new holiday center in longford there's another reason to extend the motorway.

I don't complain about other people getting roads that are needed. Or hospitals that are needed or schools or whatever. It would be nice though if well over a quarter of the country could get a decent road to the capital and a decent road from letterkenny to galway. Given the decision to close hospital services in the nw it would be nice to be able to get to the the new "centers of excellence".

While there's not a limitless pool for infrastructure, it's an investment in the future and can be paid for by borrowing. It also provides an immediate boost to the economy.

Are we still eligible for funds from the european union for our roads still like the projects that were happening in the late 90's or does the funding just come from the Irish government now for roads?

Melanoma

As a richer country we give to the EU but for a poor or less developed part of Ireland we can apply for funding back. Its just we are net contributors.

The EU gifted us lots of cash for telecoms, roads and still is giving agriculture lots of money.

I'd say with brexit money will be tighter in say 5 years time. They did contribute too. Whales got some back and Scotland and less Developed parts of England. reckon we will be giving about 5% more to the EU then.

Assuming that the whole things still exists then.

marno21

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Are we still eligible for funds from the european union for our roads still like the projects that were happening in the late 90's or does the funding just come from the Irish government now for roads?

At the moment the only part of the road network eligible for European funding is the TEN-T Core network, which compromises the N7, N8, M50, N28 and Limerick-Foynes. The schemes being funded are:

M7 Naas/Newbridge widening
N8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange
M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy
N21/N69 Limerick-Foynes

Andy From Sligo

I suppose it sounds like it would never get the go ahead then, but if the money were there and they started building the motorway now is there a rough average time frame for how long it would take to complete? would we be talking under 5 years? ... under 10 years? - i suppose its hard to say isnt it? - if we were talking of linking up at the M4 junction in westmeath which is a distance of around 142kilometres

Jayop

Andy I think we need to temper the wants. A proper dual carriage way linking to the motorway at mullingar or even better at longford would be good enough.

Irish_rat

Lads it'll never be motorway to Sligo, upgrade a few sections to type 2 DC if needs be and maybe some more HQDC near Mullingar but that's it.

overshoot

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

All irrelevant and sounds like it would never get the go ahead but if the money were there and they started building the motorway now is there a rough average time frame for how long it would take to complete? would we be talking under 5 years? ... under 10 years? - i suppose its hard to say isnt it? - if we were talking of linking up at the M4 junction in westmeath which is a distance of around 142kilometres

or cost.... based on the cheapest section of the Dublin Galway motorway....
142km x 8.1million per km = €1.15 Billion.

There is published traffic counters if you want to see viability. 20k cars may use the dual carrigeway around ballisodare but by Castlebaldwin / Dromod is 6500 - 7000. Longford is 11,000 rising to 18000 at mullingar, 40,000 by Maynooth.
Its a long way from ever needing a motorway, even if sligo's population doubled, its only really that area served, south donegal has the N3, Ballina - Charlestown will not join the road until longford

road_high

Motorway as far as Longford. The traffic figures justify it. Good standard single carriageway or dual after that is perfectly acceptable. Lot of the N4 is of very high standard.

Andy From Sligo

road_high wrote: »

Motorway as far as Longford. The traffic figures justify it. Good standard single carriageway or dual after that is perfectly acceptable. Lot of the N4 is of very high standard.

cant do 120kmh on the N4 (legally!!) - have to share with learner drivers, pedestrians, tractors, slow vehicles and bicycles & Mopeds, and horses!! - when you want to get to and from dublin in the quickest possible time you dont want to be wrestling with those other road users that would be allowed on the N4 - you wanna put down your foot (or select cruise control) and go!

road_high

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

cant do 120kmh on the N4 (legally!!) - have to share with learner drivers, pedestrians, tractors, slow vehicles and bicycles & Mopeds, and horses!! - when you want to get to and from dublin in the quickest possible time you dont want to be wrestling with those other road users that would be allowed on the N4 - you wanna put down your foot (or select cruise control) and go!

Of course, it's not a motorway. There isn't one just justified beyond Longford at present, just improvements to the existing N4 and a bypass around Carrick on Shannon. There are far worse roads in the country with more traffic. Lot of this was improved in the last few decades.

Jayop

If you could bypass Carrick from the start of the R368 to close to the L3656 then that would save a serious amount of time on the Sligo-Dub journey.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Carrick-On-Shannon,+Co.+Leitrim/@53.9366366,-8.093147,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x485e85aa1e1709db:0x5c9d5bba717806d5!8m2!3d53.9451156!4d-8.0861879

Edit: And to a lesser exten Newtownforbes but that's never really a bottleneck but the people of the town must be so pissed off with the passing traffic.

Andy From Sligo

road_high wrote: »

Of course, it's not a motorway. There isn't one just justified beyond Longford at present, just improvements to the existing N4 and a bypass around Carrick on Shannon. There are far worse roads in the country with more traffic. Lot of this was improved in the last few decades.

Depends who you talk to , and whether they make the trip regularly I am sure - at the risk of repeating meself and sounding like a broken road i'm also sure if there were one then a lot of people would use it across the board and will bring more people to the northwest including businesses , tourists as well as other benefits to the area and consequently more business I'm sure people going the other way as well from the Northwest up to Dublin

road_high

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Depends who you talk to , and whether they make the trip regularly I am sure - at the risk of repeating meself and sounding like a broken road i'm also sure if there were one then a lot of people would use it across the board and will bring more people to the northwest including businesses , tourists as well as other benefits to the area and consequently more business I'm sure people going the other way as well from the Northwest up to Dublin

Of course it's a wonderful idea but in the times we live in, we have to prioritise scarce funding to the roads that need it most. The present N4 is down the list as regards that. No one disputes the obvious benefits.

Andy From Sligo

I wonder on the present route even as it stands you have to slow down to 50kmh, as you go through towns/places bends and narrow bits and railway crossings and roundabouts and traffic lights still (that havent been bypassed) - loads I bet (havent travelled the route for a while as you might have guessed) and even when works are completed on the N4 if there will still be bits where you have to slow down last time I did travel to Dublin (as a passenger) I got right fed up with the journey and keep slowing down and speeding up - so I choose the train on the very rare occasion I go to Dublin now

Andy From Sligo

road_high wrote: »

Of course it's a wonderful idea but in the times we live in, we have to prioritise scarce funding to the roads that need it most. The present N4 is down the list as regards that. No one disputes the obvious benefits.

I dont know how much Tolls bring in.. are they very effective? - I think people would be prepared to pay a toll towards payment of the introduction of a new motorway built and then as I said earlier maybe european funding might be able to be used?

red sean

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

cant do 120kmh on the N4 (legally!!) - have to share with learner drivers, pedestrians, tractors, slow vehicles and bicycles & Mopeds, and horses!! - when you want to get to and from dublin in the quickest possible time you dont want to be wrestling with those other road users that would be allowed on the N4 - you wanna put down your foot (or select cruise control) and go!

N4 is faster than the M50 a lot of the time!

overshoot

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Depends who you talk to , and whether they make the trip regularly I am sure - at the risk of repeating meself and sounding like a broken road i'm also sure if there were one then a lot of people would use it across the board and will bring more people to the northwest including businesses , tourists as well as other benefits to the area and consequently more business I'm sure people going the other way as well from the Northwest up to Dublin

The NRA wont care who you talk to, they will look at those traffic surveys and say they need to be doubled in places to justify a motorway. I clicked around the country and couldnt find any below 10k.
As i said in my post, its very easy to throw out the term northwest to increase your points validity but a motorway to sligo will only really serve county sligo and the area close around it beyond longford.
Given it would cost over 1.15billion for a motorway, as handy as it would be, its simply not worth it on a national scale. a 2+1 dual carraigeway or 2+2 minus hard shoulder on the other hand would be a different argument.

On how much tolls bring in... nearest survey point -maynooth - 40k vehicles x 2.90(min) = 116k per day x 365 = 116million per year. Id say effective if in the right location. Lets wind that to the section of the road with 7k cars - 20k a day = 7.5 million a year... would almost pay for kilometer of the motorway. Would you pay 2 tolls to dublin though?

topmanamillion

Jayop wrote: »

If you could bypass Carrick from the start of the R368 to close to the L3656 then that would save a serious amount of time on the Sligo-Dub journey.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Carrick-On-Shannon,+Co.+Leitrim/@53.9366366,-8.093147,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x485e85aa1e1709db:0x5c9d5bba717806d5!8m2!3d53.9451156!4d-8.0861879

Edit: And to a lesser exten Newtownforbes but that's never really a bottleneck but the people of the town must be so pissed off with the passing traffic.

This is desperately needed. Carrick is an absolute nightmare.
Any sort of an obstruction on the roundabouts or any event like a circus or match in Carrick and traffic just starts piling up for miles in either direction.

Andy From Sligo

overshoot wrote: »

The NRA wont care who you talk to, they will look at those traffic surveys and say they need to be doubled in places to justify a motorway. I clicked around the country and couldnt find any below 10k.
As i said in my post, its very easy to throw out the term northwest to increase your points validity but a motorway to sligo will only really serve county sligo and the area close around it beyond longford.
Given it would cost over 1.15billion for a motorway, as handy as it would be, its simply not worth it on a national scale. a 2+1 dual carraigeway or 2+2 minus hard shoulder on the other hand would be a different argument.

On how much tolls bring in... nearest survey point -maynooth - 40k vehicles x 2.90(min) = 116k per day x 365 = 116million per year. Id say effective if in the right location. Lets wind that to the section of the road with 7k cars - 20k a day = 7.5 million a year... would almost pay for kilometer of the motorway. Would you pay 2 tolls to dublin though?

it makes sense what you say .. I suppose this idea of a motorway should have been pushed or at least started in the tiger years , anything and everything was being built and given the go ahead then ...

road_high

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont know how much Tolls bring in.. are they very effective? - I think people would be prepared to pay a toll towards payment of the introduction of a new motorway built and then as I said earlier maybe european funding might be able to be used?

Not on roads that are more lightly trafficked. Avoid if at all possible. Ones such as the M3 have been costing the taxpayer extra as traffic numbers have been less than expected.
Best hope is M4 extension to Longford and upgrades beyond as needed. A full motorway is decades away if at all.

Jayop

road_high wrote: »

Not on roads that are more lightly trafficked. Avoid if at all possible. Ones such as the M3 have been costing the taxpayer extra as traffic numbers have been less than expected.
Best hope is M4 extension to Longford and upgrades beyond as needed. A full motorway is decades away if at all.

Roughly what's the cost difference between a HQDC and a motorway? To my eye they seem to be built to a very similar spec.

Andy From Sligo

Jayop wrote: »

Roughly what's the cost difference between a HQDC and a motorway? To my eye they seem to be built to a very similar spec.

true, thats a good point, id be interested to know too

topmanamillion

Jayop wrote: »

Roughly what's the cost difference between a HQDC and a motorway? To my eye they seem to be built to a very similar spec.

Cost would be obviously based on the length of the road/the speed of the build so wouldn't really tell it much.

"Many motorways in Ireland are opened as dual carriageways and subsequently have motorway regulations applied to them. From a legal viewpoint, this is easier."
http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/misc/standards.html

So there really isn't any difference and its a loophole to get around legal red tape seems to be the answer.

Andy From Sligo

topmanamillion wrote: »

Cost would be obviously based on the length of the road/the speed of the build so wouldn't really tell it much.

"Many motorways in Ireland are opened as dual carriageways and subsequently have motorway regulations applied to them. From a legal viewpoint, this is easier."
http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/misc/standards.html

So there really isn't any difference and its a loophole to get around legal red tape seems to be the answer.

I likes the sound of that

marno21

Jayop wrote: »

Roughly what's the cost difference between a HQDC and a motorway? To my eye they seem to be built to a very similar spec.

None. HQDCs and motorways in Ireland these days are built to the same standard (that is Type 1 DC). Before in Ireland motorway was an extremely high standard (2x3.75m running lanes, 3m hard shoulder, grass median, full grade seperation), nowadays it's lower (2x3.5m running lanes, 2.5m hard shoulder, narrow concrete median, compact grade seperation allowed).

road_high wrote: »

Motorway as far as Longford. The traffic figures justify it. Good standard single carriageway or dual after that is perfectly acceptable. Lot of the N4 is of very high standard.

This is likely how it'll be built. Mullingar-Longford may or may not have motorway restrictions. The N4 around Boyle is perfectly acceptable for the volume of traffic it carries.

Jayop wrote: »

If you could bypass Carrick from the start of the R368 to close to the L3656 then that would save a serious amount of time on the Sligo-Dub journey.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Carrick-On-Shannon,+Co.+Leitrim/@53.9366366,-8.093147,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x485e85aa1e1709db:0x5c9d5bba717806d5!8m2!3d53.9451156!4d-8.0861879

Edit: And to a lesser exten Newtownforbes but that's never really a bottleneck but the people of the town must be so pissed off with the passing traffic.

There was a route selected back in the day but I can't find the pdf of it cos Leitrim CoCo have it taken down. If I can find it I'll post it up here.


Newtownforbes will be taken care of by the N4 Mullingar-Roosky scheme.

Andy From Sligo

Hate that little stretch you have to slow down to 50kmh in Castlebaldwin too - dont even think its gradual slow down coming from sligo side, you have to go from 100kmph to 50kmph - that and slowing down in Carrick on shannon

Mint Sauce

Totally pitting aside the cost to build, the demand, the need, etc.

On one hand a motorway would be great, on the other hand, my half tank of petrol up and down, would probably become 3/4s of a tank, and would be even more hard to stay awake on that night run from Dublin Airport.

On a total side note, Andy, when did you last do the run. There are no level crossings between here and Dublin!

londonred

Any kind of upgrade is badly needed nothing more frustrating than coming over the dual carriageway at Mullingar and getting stuck behind cattle trucks and gob****es driving at 60kh with few chances to overtake , I use the N4 and N5 a lot there was some talk by Enda of upgrading the N4 to Carrick then a new road to Frenchpark which would fix the N5 as well as there are some brutal stretches on that road after Strokestown . I can never understand why 3 of the main roads out of Sligo to Dublin , Belfast and Galway are a disgrace in Sligo is this the councils or the politicans fault , the N17 is very dangerous between Ballincarrow to Curry again few chances to overtake.

Andy From Sligo

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Totally pitting aside the cost to build, the demand, the need, etc.

On one hand a motorway would be great, on the other hand, my half tank of petrol up and down, would probably become 3/4s of a tank, and would be even more hard to stay awake on that night run from Dublin Airport.

On a total side note, Andy, when did you last do the run. There are no level crossings between here and Dublin!

if it were a motorway and you were doing 120kmh most of the way and not slowing down and speeding up and stop starting in top gear most of the time it would actually be more economical for your car/petrol tank

yes, I couldnt place the year (lol) I last travelled up there by car ..... because I hate the roads and it takes to long to get up there .. ah but sure if there was a motorway sure , be a different kettle of fish , id be flying up and down all the time (or is it down and across?)

Thats good they tarmacked over the railway crossings now sure

You would definately need a couple or few 24hr Service stations along the route to break up the journey and have a rest and stretch your legs

cnocbui

Don't really need a motorway, just get rid of the hard shoulder and use the space for frequent and numerous overtaking lanes - all for the cost of a few truckloads of paint and a few signs.